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View Poll Results: So who is the GOAT?

Voters
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  • Pele

    15 17.24%
  • Messi

    16 18.39%
  • Ronaldo

    22 25.29%
  • Maradona

    34 39.08%
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Thread: So who is the GOAT?

  1. #51
    Maradona was so iconic - personality, flair, personal trouble he had it all - both as a player and when he retired which added to his legend. The modern greats such as Messi and Ronaldo are just boring, lacking charisma - but maybe when they retire we'll come to appreciate how staggeringly good both of them were. In the end, which one would I really want to see? Maradona.

    Though I'd probably say Cruyff was better than them........

  2. #52
    Maradona was no doubt a great talent, which made it all the more galling that he should cheat so blatantly and without any remorse or apology...he cannot, in my eyes, be the greatest.

  3. #53
    Craftsman kildareman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    Maradona was no doubt a great talent, which made it all the more galling that he should cheat so blatantly and without any remorse or apology...he cannot, in my eyes, be the greatest.
    He played to the whistle. If you blame anyone then it's the officials who gave the goal.

  4. #54
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kildareman View Post
    He played to the whistle. If you blame anyone then it's the officials who gave the goal.
    Oh, that's alright then. Here's me thinking that his hand of god cheating was due to another of his well documented character flaws.

    Still my GOAT though!

  5. #55
    Master village's Avatar
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    Iím surprised nobody has mentioned Beckenbauer (unless they have and Iíve missed it!).



    Quote Originally Posted by kildareman View Post
    He played to the whistle. If you blame anyone then it's the officials who gave the goal.
    Nonsense.....you blame the cheating bar steward who intentionally committed the handball. Shame really but more an insight into the Latin American mindset eg Rivaldo going down like he was shot in the face against Turkey (?).

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Iím surprised nobody has mentioned Beckenbauer

    Nonsense.....you blame the cheating bar steward who intentionally committed the handball. Shame really but more an insight into the Latin American mindset eg Rivaldo going down like he was shot in the face against Turkey (?).
    Beckenbauer was class

    The hand of god was a big moment in a big matchÖ. So overhyped - I hate cheating - but it happens all the time and shouldnít define himÖ. Heís not alone

    This is no longer the domain of Carlos Kickaball eitherÖ. Plenty of Ďgaining an unfair advantageí from all nationalities Iím afraid

  7. #57
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    Another for Maradona here, was lucky enough to see him score his 1st international goal at Hampden.
    Best one off display I ever seen was Kempes for Valencia at Ibrox, stunning performance.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete-r View Post
    Both great goals from Maradona and Giggs, but hereís about 20 equivalent from Messi

    https://youtu.be/MEWSjzw2jVw
    Just watched that and i would like to change my vote.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Just watched that and i would like to change my vote.
    Really? Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmyssDtOiLM

  10. #60
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    This thread demonstrates being a short-arse is no hindrance in football

    I recall in an interview CR7 saying he's 6'2" a veritable giant in comparison to most nominated.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf View Post
    Wow, you watch them up close and that foot work is incredible! Game, set and match.

  12. #62
    Craftsman CamCG's Avatar
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    The emphasis in lists like this typically seems to be on attacking players.

    I'm guessing this is because their "flair" is that much more evident and can be easily highlighted on YouTube for each generation to relive or discover anew.

    Once 5 or 10 players are outlined (typically the same usual suspects), it's often each player's influence in winning (eg Maradona) or failing to win (eg Messi) things like the World Cup which is the final measure by which people ultimately rank them.

    However, I'd suggest that it's that final, deciding measure - namely influence on winning competitions - which is the only meaningful attribute that defines a great player, not overt displays of technique or flair.

    Influence may be harder to attribute than the ability to make surging, mazy dribbles, but it is of greater importance when all is said and done.

    I've seen plenty of YouTube videos on things like the "best dribblers" and the best "skill moves". They're good fun and are typically packed full of moves by players like Ronaldinho, Cryuff and their ilk.

    Nevertheless, after these players perform their sublime dribble or skill move, more times than not it seems to turn into a fruitless pass, the loss of the ball to an opponent or it goes out of play. Stunning technique, but then what?

    For example, the most famous piece of skill ever performed might be Johann Cryuff's "turn" against Sweden in 1974. But what happened after? His cross missed the target in the box and then ended up outside of the penalty area. The game ended 0-0.

    Sure, there are some flair players who undoubtedly had a massive influence on lifting their respective teams to win at the highest level by the very utilisation of their flair. Maradona is the most obvious example in 1986 with Argentina and the two Italian league titles with Napoli.

    That said, what about Paolo Maldini? Bobby Moore? Bobby Charlton? Franz Beckenbauer? Lev Yashin? Not exactly players of overt flair, yet their ability to influence a game and, indeed, lift their teams towards glory is well documented.

    That quality, that influence, is what I think defines greatness above anything else, in football and indeed any other sport.

    Also, unlike flair, it's much harder, perhaps even impossible, to rank.

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    Last edited by CamCG; 28th November 2020 at 03:35.

  13. #63
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    ďInfluenceĒ is just another attribute though. And I would still argue Messi as having that quality too. But youíd then certainly add Iniesta to the mix. He comtrolled the best team the world has seen for nearly a decade.
    Last edited by demonloop; 28th November 2020 at 10:25.

  14. #64
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    I'm surprised Carlton Palmer hasn't had a mention here ;)

    I've been fortunate to see both Messi and Ronaldo play live - both amazing however I felt Messi is so good because he was in that Barca team that knew how to play to his strengths. For example I saw Barca twice at the Emirates and actually it was Iniesta that was running the show and putting Messi in positions to cause mayhem. Most teams don't have an Iniesta! Stick him in (for example) the Man Utd side and I'm not sure he would be as effective.

    Ronaldo would be the best player in the league with any team he plays in - he really is a phenomenal and versatile talent.

    But the GOAT is Maradona end of. That man got no protection from referees, was at risk of grievous injury from appalling challenges and did half of all this whilst suffering from a hangover/on a marching powder comedown. Imagine if he'd had the sports nutritionists that today's footballers have.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    But the GOAT is Maradona end of. That man got no protection from referees, was at risk of grievous injury from appalling challenges
    That's certainly the aspect that swings it for me. This is what the great (and for his era relatively clean) Paolo Maldini has said on the matter. ďYou could not catch him. I was next to him at the Serie A Hall of Fame awards and they showed some of our footage together. I always considered myself a very fair defender, but I have to admit in those videos I was doing some horrible fouls on him, but it was only because he always anticipated me and I was therefore late. He was so quick and was kicked to pieces all through his career, all through the game. I felt ashamed and apologised to him after that clip. I also realised even more than I had remembered just how quickly he controlled the ball and changed direction. He really was extraordinary.Ē

  16. #66
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    Messi has won heís 7th ballon dor tonight, GOAT !

  17. #67
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    Proof of it were needed that this award doesnít have any credibility whatsoever. Absolute joke of a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post
    Messi has won heís 7th ballon dor tonight, GOAT !

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Proof of it were needed that this award doesnít have any credibility whatsoever. Absolute joke of a result.
    To be fair, not sure there was a stand out winner this year, he did manage to score 44 goals and 17 assists in a very poor barca side, he also won the copa with Argentina and was player of the tournament


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  19. #69
    I had Lewandowski as the nailed on winnerÖ
    41 goals in 29 league appearances and a Bundesliga last season, 14 in 13 already this season. It was a dead cert for him last year until the award was cancelled.

  20. #70
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    Lewandowski had a good shout but I think messi shades it,


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  21. #71
    I think Benzema rather blew his chances with the whole sex-tape blackmail thing

  22. #72
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    From another era John Charles and Stanley Matthews- he played into his fifties in an era with quagmire pitches and very heavy leather balls.
    Special mention for a personal hero Eddie grey who Revie said didnít leave footprints in snow. Got kicked to death all through the 70ís and would have become a Scottish icon if he played more.

    Best striker Iíve personally seen was Yeboah in his pomp at Leeds. He could and did hit it in from anywhere!
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    marchingontogether!



  23. #73
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    For me, Maradona has been the best player ever. Messi and Pele next. Maradona is by far the most gifted player. Ronaldo? not really impressed.
    Rather like O'Sullivan is the equivalent in snooker, a hugely gifted talent.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post


    Lewandowski had a good shout but I think messi shades it,


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    Using the same data, I think Lewandowski gets it.

  25. #75
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Billy.

    Bravo

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  26. #76
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    An interesting topic but ultimately pointless. Different players, in different teams, different conditions, different rules, different times.

    But the player who had the most influence on me personally was Maradona and how he cheated. Put me right off football to be honest.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Giggs V Arsenal midfield and defender 1999?


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    My favourite goal

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    An interesting topic but ultimately pointless. Different players, in different teams, different conditions, different rules, different times.

    But the player who had the most influence on me personally was Maradona and how he cheated. Put me right off football to be honest.
    It was amazing how he always played so close to the line!

    I'll have to grant it to Messi, bloke fell of the genealogy tree hitting every recessive gene he could, but man, he can play.

  29. #79
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    As mentioned it’s pointless but fun. I think best player is too vague because of the positions. Maldini had a different job on the pitch but was just as good at it as the others are at scoring etc.

    If I could make my ultimate player they would...

    Dribble like Messi/Maradona
    Header like Shearer/Ronaldo
    Defend like Baresi/Koeman
    Shoot like Greaves/Van Basten
    Long pass like Pirlo/Cruyff
    Short pass like Zidane/Xavi
    Have hair like Valderrama/Higuita!!!!

  30. #80
    Messi for me. Too young to have seen Pele and Maradona is tainted for me, not for the hand of God but because we canít be sure what substances he was using at any point in his career. Iíd take Messi over Ronaldo any day, Messi fits into the teams he plays in and everything feels more organic. Ronaldo takes over and everything has to go through him or he has a tantrum. Man Utd looked to be on the up before he signed and look whatís happened since, and I donít think itís any coincidence that Portugal won the Euros after Ronaldo went off injured, and even then he had to be on the sideline pretending to be the coach to make sure he got the praise.

    Much lower down the ladder we have a similar situation at Watford. Ismaila Sarr is probably the most talented player weíve ever had. When he plays everything is directed towards him and itís very predictable. Much like Ronaldo, when anything goes wrong heíll throw a tantrum and claim itís somebody elses fault, even when itís clear the fault lies with him.The team as a whole plays much better when he isnít on the pitch. Thatís an attitude Iíve never seen with Messi who quietly gets on with the job in hand and pulls his team along with him.

    All irrelevant though, the correct answer is Luther Blissett!

  31. #81
    Craftsman Fender's Avatar
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    Best natural footballer and tough as old boots, Maradona for me.

    But I voted Pele because he had the biggest impact on the sport. Scoring two goals in a world cup final aged 17? Incredible.

    Every player since the pioneers have had a head start, building on the innovations of previous generations. Of today's crop, only Ronaldo and Messi come close.
    Messi not having won a major tournament with Argentina really lets him down. Choked in 4 finals.

    Ronaldo having won the Euros with Portugal puts him ahead imo.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danstone View Post
    Messi for me. Too young to have seen Pele and Maradona is tainted for me, not for the hand of God but because we canít be sure what substances he was using at any point in his career. Iíd take Messi over Ronaldo any day, Messi fits into the teams he plays in and everything feels more organic. Ronaldo takes over and everything has to go through him or he has a tantrum. Man Utd looked to be on the up before he signed and look whatís happened since, and I donít think itís any coincidence that Portugal won the Euros after Ronaldo went off injured, and even then he had to be on the sideline pretending to be the coach to make sure he got the praise.

    Much lower down the ladder we have a similar situation at Watford. Ismaila Sarr is probably the most talented player weíve ever had. When he plays everything is directed towards him and itís very predictable. Much like Ronaldo, when anything goes wrong heíll throw a tantrum and claim itís somebody elses fault, even when itís clear the fault lies with him.The team as a whole plays much better when he isnít on the pitch. Thatís an attitude Iíve never seen with Messi who quietly gets on with the job in hand and pulls his team along with him.

    All irrelevant though, the correct answer is Luther Blissett!
    I agree with everything said here regarding ronaldo and messi!


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  33. #83
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    So who is the GOAT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fender View Post
    Best natural footballer and tough as old boots, Maradona for me.

    But I voted Pele because he had the biggest impact on the sport. Scoring two goals in a world cup final aged 17? Incredible.

    Every player since the pioneers have had a head start, building on the innovations of previous generations. Of today's crop, only Ronaldo and Messi come close.
    Messi not having won a major tournament with Argentina really lets him down. Choked in 4 finals.

    Ronaldo having won the Euros with Portugal puts him ahead imo.
    Messi has just won the copa America which is the equivalent of the euros but I do agree that messi has gone missing in a couple of finals, saying that ronaldo also went missing in the euro final that Portugal won.


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  34. #84
    Craftsman Fender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post
    Messi has just won the copa America which is the equivalent of the euros but I do agree that messi has gone missing in a couple of finals, saying that ronaldo also went missing in the euro final that Portugal won.


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    Oh good for him. It is with Argentina mind you. He shouldíve won more.

    Ronaldo was injured as well you know, sirrah!

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