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View Poll Results: So who is the GOAT?

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  • Pele

    15 17.24%
  • Messi

    16 18.39%
  • Ronaldo

    22 25.29%
  • Maradona

    34 39.08%
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Thread: So who is the GOAT?

  1. #1
    Master
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    So who is the GOAT?

    Todayís sad news has got me thinking, who truly is the GOAT? There are loads of players you could consider like Best, Zidane, Eusebio and many more but Iíve narrowed it to 4 for ease.

    Pele - his record speaks for itself.

    Maradona - the hand of god.

    Messi - some of his skills have been simply mesmerising.

    Ronaldo - became the worlds superstar, was then eclipsed by Messi for some years, kept going and then years later became the worlds number 1 again. Has gOT better with age.

    Vote for your choice and say what makes them the GOAT.

    Despite me hating him as a 16 year as Iím sure many other England fans did that day, despite his failed drug tests, complete meltdowns and mafia associations, he was genius with the ball. Like George Best, he couldnít cope with the fame and success that came with his talents.

    He took a very average team that hadnít achieved anything in Napoli and turned them into champions. He took an average country and turned them into world champions. Iíve never witnessed any player have the effect he had both on and off the pitch.

  2. #2
    Master davidj54's Avatar
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    Most would say the unchallenged top 4 would be Pele, Maradona, Messi & Ronaldo - itís just what order you put them in.

    Pele is more famous for his international career as he was part of the great Brazil 70 side, but if you look at it he was only 17 in 58 and didnít play all games, in 62 he was injured for much of it and Brazil didnít perform at 66. His club career, while impressive, is surrounded by lots of myths and questions ie the true number of goals he scored, the quality of the league he played in (although South America League football was apparently of a higher standard back then with far fewer Of the best players moving to play in Europe like now).

    For me itís Maradona, Iíve always been firm on this. Iíve never seen another player with as much pure, natural god given talent as him, he was phenomenal and despite the party lifestyle and his questionable activities off the pitch he still lead unfancied teams to success in Serie A, Europe and the World Cup with his individual brilliance. Itís a shame that his lifestyle impacted his career compared to the professionalism of Messi & Ronaldo whoíve reaped the rewards of longevity, but Maradonaís character is part of what makes him so iconic.

    You have a second tier of greatest players like Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo etc but the above are the elite and I wouldnít argue if someone had a different no1 from that 4 depending on your criteria, but in terms of pure ability it can only be Maradona.

  3. #3
    Craftsman Idontgram's Avatar
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    As above, any of those 4. Peleís record is undoubtedly under question but bear in mind that he did lead Brazil to 3 World Cup victories, which none of the others have. Iíll also add the controversial point that Brazil didnít perform in 66 because Pele was kicked half to death during their game against Portugal!

    An often forgotten star of this era is Garrincha, who was eclipsed by Pele, though Brazil never lost a single game when the two played together. He too sadly succumbed to fame and the bottle...

  4. #4
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    Put far better than me David :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by davidj54 View Post
    For me itís Maradona, Iíve always been firm on this. Iíve never seen another player with as much pure, natural god given talent as him, he was phenomenal and despite the party lifestyle and his questionable activities off the pitch he still lead unfancied teams to success in Serie A, Europe and the World Cup with his individual brilliance. Itís a shame that his lifestyle impacted his career compared to the professionalism of Messi & Ronaldo whoíve reaped the rewards of longevity, but Maradonaís character is part of what makes him so iconic.

    You have a second tier of greatest players like Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo etc but the above are the elite and I wouldnít argue if someone had a different no1 from that 4 depending on your criteria, but in terms of pure ability it can only be Maradona.

  5. #5
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Where's Gazza?????

  6. #6
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    None of the above. Johan Cruyff

  7. #7
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Johan Cruijff.

    Not only as a player on the field, but also as a trainer/coach. Apart from that: he has done sů much for charity; the Cruijff Foundation. He opened universities for Ďtalentsí (my oldest is a student at the Cruijff Academy in Amsterdam) and he had given the Dutch language a bunch of beautiful phrases and one-liners.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Cruijffís Dutch team is probably the best memory I have from the time I was following football. Kroll, Vos, Rep, the de Kerkhofs...

    Total football indeed from such a small pool
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  9. #9
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    Ronaldinho for me what a player.

  10. #10
    Pele.

    3 world cups says it all.

    He and Maradona were both superb for club and country in an era without the one on one training regimes, health and nutrition guidance and supplements plus the lightweight boots, synthetic balls and proper referees who pull up hatchet men if they even breathe on a player hard. Ronaldo couldn’t stand it, and Without growth hormones Messi might not be the player he is....
    Last edited by RJM25R; 25th November 2020 at 20:04.

  11. #11
    Whereís Zidane?

  12. #12
    Master
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    Which Ronaldo you talking about?

  13. #13
    .... and George Best?

  14. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Where's Gazza?????
    In the top 3 players to have been mates with Jimmy5Bellies thread coming soon . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Whereís Zidane?
    In the whose the 5th to 10th best player of all time category with Johan, Ferenc, Luis Narario, George, Alfredo and Ronaldo de Assis. Oming next week on George and Dragon

  15. #15
    Maradona. Easily. Rip

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Devonian View Post
    In the top 3 players to have been mates with Jimmy5Bellies thread coming soon . . . .



    In the whose the 5th to 10th best player of all time category with Johan, Ferenc, Luis Narario, George, Alfredo and Ronaldo de Assis. Oming next week on George and Dragon
    👍👍

    Controversial I know but if weíre talking GOAT then Iíve never understood why the likes of Pele and Best are even in the running when you have players like Ronaldo and messi. No doubt they were probably greatest within their time but not all time.

  17. #17
    Apprentice
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    We should define what constitutes the GOAT status. Not easy at all regarding football...

    1-Statistics (Pelť based on the World Cups I guess)
    2-Influence (probably Cruijff)
    3-Longevity/consistency (Messi)
    4-Tan (C. Ronaldo :D)*

    *Ok I'm biased considering I am from Barcelona.

    I guess we should add Di Stefano to the list. The most I enjoyed was Ronaldinho, the lad was magical...

  18. #18
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Billy.

  19. #19
    Craftsman Halitosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopak View Post
    .... and George Best?
    Coincidentally George Best died 15 years ago today

  20. #20
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    So who is the GOAT?

    The 4 originally listed are correctly named are the only ones worthy of consideration imo.
    Big negative for Messi is that he didnít manage to pull a decent Argentina side to a World Cup victory like Maradona.
    I think longevity wise Messi and Ronaldo have been doing it for longer than Maradona ever did.
    Pele was before my time so I canít compare him.
    Again before my time but De-Stefano and Puskas would be in that tier ever so slightly below.


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  21. #21
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    I wouldnít have Pele in my top four

    For me,
    1. Messi



    2. Maradona
    3. Ronaldo
    4. Ronaldinho
    5. Zidane

    (Iím aware thatís 5)

  22. #22
    Depends on the position. Attacking players always dominate these lists.

    My favourite player of all time is Paolo Maldini:

    One club man

    Played until he was 40

    5 Champions Leagues

    1 World Cup

    He made left-back look cool

    Maradona was a scumbag in comparison.

  23. #23
    Master Thom4711's Avatar
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    I sold a Sinn to a GOAT on the weekend?

    On topic, and for me it's Messi. All the stats, medals, records and trophies are meaningful, but Messi is the one who gives me a visceral sense of joy when I watch him play- everything he does is so effortless and he's been at the top for getting on 15 years. That sort of consistency is not common. Out of any footballer ever to play he is the one I'd choose to watch.

  24. #24
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    ^^ Fabulous player. Loved watching Maldini play.

  25. #25
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Maradona for me, unbelievably talented.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Thom4711 View Post
    I sold a Sinn to a GOAT on the weekend?

    On topic, and for me it's Messi. All the stats, medals, records and trophies are meaningful, but Messi is the one who gives me a visceral sense of joy when I watch him play- everything he does is so effortless and he's been at the top for getting on 15 years. That sort of consistency is not common. Out of any footballer ever to play he is the one I'd choose to watch.
    I think the same about ZZ. Full flight the guy was effortless itís just a shame the way he went out like he did.

  27. #27
    Maradona is the best player I've ever seen. If you watch some of his matches you'll see how he was literally kicked off the ball and taken down with studs' up challenges, at a time where this was only penalised with a free kick. He played in a good Argentinian team but which was inferior to other countries - he single-handedly got them to the 1990 WC Final by delivering a goal scoring pass to beat Brazil in the quarters or semis. He was responsible for Napoli winning two titles and a UEFA Cup. Messi and Ronaldo are great players too, but they never played with so many things aganist them as Maradona did.

    Btw - the best attacking team I've ever seen is the Brazil 1982 World Cup team.

  28. #28
    Master
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    James Peter Greaves



    13 goals in 12 England under-23 internationals

    44 goals in 57 full England internationals between 1959 and 1967

    124 First Division goals in just four seasons

    Italy Serie A nine goals in 14 appearances


    1961-1970
    Appearances: 379. Goals: 266.
    FA Cup winner 1962, 1967
    European CWC winner 1963
    The Club's all-time record goalscorer

    Arguably the greatest striker ever to grace the game, ĎGreavsieí set countless records during an incredible playing career, many of which still stand to this day.

  29. #29
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Behave!!!

    Maradona - not even close

    Garincha gets overlooked in these lists - bloody genius - Guenter Netzer too - what a beautiful player Ö

  30. #30
    Master gregory's Avatar
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    1 Maradona for the greatest of all time.
    2 Then Pele.
    3 Messi up there in the modern era.
    4 Zidane.
    4 Possibly George Best.. and I am Leeds fan. Great player... didn't get the global kudos as it's often about international careers also.. but absolute legend.

    Special mention to Gazza.

    I wouldn't put C. Ronaldo in that top 5. Definite top 10 but really... he's in minds now because he plays now.


    Maradona for sure though. And when you think of the job he did against England.. both by cheating and by the greatest goal in World Cup history... for him STILL to get votes here he MUST be. I mean... disliked AND still voted for. Amazing player.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregory View Post
    I wouldn't put C. Ronaldo in that top 5. Definite top 10 but really... he's in minds now because he plays now.
    I think he holds a few goal scoring records too?

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooshabak View Post
    Which Ronaldo you talking about?
    Never mind which Ronaldo heís talking about, Iíd like to know which field of human endeavour this thread is talking about....

  33. #33
    Grand Master
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    It's a debate everyone has their opinion on for their own reasons and some of it comes down to era and what they believe makes a truly great player.

    Maradona had it all. What he achieved at Barca was impressive but what he brought to Napoli was on a whole other level. This was in an era when he was basically assaulted every game, pitches were ploughed fields and he was shagging hookers and doing more lines than Elton John. In comparison, Messi has no idea what it's like to get kicked. Nobody has been able to go near him his whole career. Just look at the number of games he's played.

    I see Messi as a phenomenal talent who has played the game at one club where he's always been the main man and never tested himself outside of his comfort zone. Meanwhile Ronaldo has a very similar record but has been the best player in four different leagues in four different countries and led his country to international honours. So I see the whole career and its challenges as defining truly great which is why I place Ronaldo above Messi.

    Terry Fenwick says that pitch in '86 was a farmer's field and nobody should ever have been able to score that second goal.

    So my list is:

    Maradona

    Pele

    Ronaldo

    Messi

    Stanley Matthews - he played on worse pitches with cannonballs until he was 50!


  34. #34
    Master Marios's Avatar
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    Never seen anyone playing better than Maradona.

  35. #35
    Craftsman Rbains0708's Avatar
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    As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7


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  36. #36
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Whereís Zidane?
    Early bath, after nutting someone

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  37. #37
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rbains0708 View Post
    As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7
    GK would have to be the Black Spider (Lev Yashin)
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  38. #38
    For me maradona without a doubt

  39. #39
    Milan's whole defence was brilliant - I remember Beresi, Costacurta, Panucci and Maldini.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rbains0708 View Post
    As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7


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  40. #40
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    To be honest these comparisons are fun, but at the end of the day pointless. If you take just one half decent team you can identify lots of great players.

    Take Juventus for example.

    Del Piero
    Zoff
    Platini
    Baggio
    Zadane
    Ronaldo
    Buffon.

    All pretty handy, all world class and all had a massive influence.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    To be honest these comparisons are fun, but at the end of the day pointless.
    But as you say, just a bit of fun, which is all I tried to make it.

    I was fully aware that people would have their own 'GOAT's' and that I couldn't add in 20 players. I went for the 4 that seem to come on more than others and even they can't really be compared as the players are from different times.

    My uncle would read this and ask me why George Best isn't in it - he is from the south east (just outside London) but supported a northern team - Man Utd fan and so were many of his mates. He was in awe of George and listening to him talk today, he still is. He said what he could do was incredible. Him and his mates travelled the country to watch him play. He said the saddest thing is 95% of what he did was never caught on camera as back then even the BBC didn't go to all of the games.

    I guess for George to have had such as short career at the top and never have played in a world cup, but still be considered by many as a great, he must have been quite special.

  42. #42
    Master mjrennie's Avatar
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    Maradona by a country mile.

    Cruyff not getting much of a mention in this thread. He was unbelievable. Beckenbaur was some player too.

    I'd go:

    Maradona
    Pele
    Cruyff

  43. #43
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    Hard to say unless you are looking at a specific area. I would say Ronaldo is the best specimen from them all and statistically better in many areas. Faster, taller to head, better dead ball etc.

    But then Iíd still put Messi in my team first.

    I would say

    Messi
    Ronaldo
    Maradona

    Itís hard to compare a different era, but the levels of defender performance, fitness, speed and tactics in the modern game is on another level so as good as say Pele was, if you put Ronaldo into the 50ís game heíd be unstoppable. Itís like when people say the 1976 Wales rugby team was the best ever, but being honest the 2020 Canada team would hammer them.

    Itís a fun game though, where is Nicklas Bendtner in the shortlist? :)

  44. #44
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Pontiac GTO afaic

  45. #45
    Craftsman kildareman's Avatar
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    Maradona,

    Even the "hand of God" was deserved - he was 5' 5" and Peter Shilton 6' and Maradona out jumped him. The 2nd goal was, and is still, sublime and I can't think of a better goal.

  46. #46
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kildareman View Post
    Maradona,

    Even the "hand of God" was deserved - he was 5' 5" and Peter Shilton 6' and Maradona out jumped him. The 2nd goal was, and is still, sublime and I can't think of a better goal.
    I reckon Peter Shilton would have had the best view. Anyone see his tweet yesterday? Hilarious.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by kildareman View Post
    Maradona,

    Even the "hand of God" was deserved - he was 5' 5" and Peter Shilton 6' and Maradona out jumped him. The 2nd goal was, and is still, sublime and I can't think of a better goal.
    Giggs V Arsenal midfield and defender 1999?


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  48. #48
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    Both great goals from Maradona and Giggs, but hereís about 20 equivalent from Messi

    https://youtu.be/MEWSjzw2jVw

  49. #49
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete-r View Post
    Both great goals from Maradona and Giggs, but hereís about 20 equivalent from Messi

    https://youtu.be/MEWSjzw2jVw
    This.

  50. #50
    Craftsman kildareman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete-r View Post
    Both great goals from Maradona and Giggs, but hereís about 20 equivalent from Messi

    https://youtu.be/MEWSjzw2jVw
    Great players just make it look easy.

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