So who is the GOAT?

[Devonian]

Today’s sad news has got me thinking, who truly is the GOAT? There are loads of players you could consider like Best, Zidane, Eusebio and many more but I’ve narrowed it to 4 for ease.

Pele - his record speaks for itself.

Maradona - the hand of god.

Messi - some of his skills have been simply mesmerising.

Ronaldo - became the worlds superstar, was then eclipsed by Messi for some years, kept going and then years later became the worlds number 1 again. Has gOT better with age.

Vote for your choice and say what makes them the GOAT.

Despite me hating him as a 16 year as I’m sure many other England fans did that day, despite his failed drug tests, complete meltdowns and mafia associations, he was genius with the ball. Like George Best, he couldn’t cope with the fame and success that came with his talents.

He took a very average team that hadn’t achieved anything in Napoli and turned them into champions. He took an average country and turned them into world champions. I’ve never witnessed any player have the effect he had both on and off the pitch.

[davidj54]

Most would say the unchallenged top 4 would be Pele, Maradona, Messi & Ronaldo - it’s just what order you put them in.

Pele is more famous for his international career as he was part of the great Brazil 70 side, but if you look at it he was only 17 in 58 and didn’t play all games, in 62 he was injured for much of it and Brazil didn’t perform at 66. His club career, while impressive, is surrounded by lots of myths and questions ie the true number of goals he scored, the quality of the league he played in (although South America League football was apparently of a higher standard back then with far fewer Of the best players moving to play in Europe like now).

For me it’s Maradona, I’ve always been firm on this. I’ve never seen another player with as much pure, natural god given talent as him, he was phenomenal and despite the party lifestyle and his questionable activities off the pitch he still lead unfancied teams to success in Serie A, Europe and the World Cup with his individual brilliance. It’s a shame that his lifestyle impacted his career compared to the professionalism of Messi & Ronaldo who’ve reaped the rewards of longevity, but Maradona’s character is part of what makes him so iconic.

You have a second tier of greatest players like Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo etc but the above are the elite and I wouldn’t argue if someone had a different no1 from that 4 depending on your criteria, but in terms of pure ability it can only be Maradona.

[Devonian]

Put far better than me David :-)

For me it’s Maradona, I’ve always been firm on this. I’ve never seen another player with as much pure, natural god given talent as him, he was phenomenal and despite the party lifestyle and his questionable activities off the pitch he still lead unfancied teams to success in Serie A, Europe and the World Cup with his individual brilliance. It’s a shame that his lifestyle impacted his career compared to the professionalism of Messi & Ronaldo who’ve reaped the rewards of longevity, but Maradona’s character is part of what makes him so iconic.

You have a second tier of greatest players like Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo etc but the above are the elite and I wouldn’t argue if someone had a different no1 from that 4 depending on your criteria, but in terms of pure ability it can only be Maradona.

[blackal]

Where's Gazza?????

[monogroover]

None of the above. Johan Cruyff

[thieuster]

Johan Cruijff.

Not only as a player on the field, but also as a trainer/coach. Apart from that: he has done só much for charity; the Cruijff Foundation. He opened universities for ‘talents’ (my oldest is a student at the Cruijff Academy in Amsterdam) and he had given the Dutch language a bunch of beautiful phrases and one-liners.

[Idontgram]

As above, any of those 4. Pele’s record is undoubtedly under question but bear in mind that he did lead Brazil to 3 World Cup victories, which none of the others have. I’ll also add the controversial point that Brazil didn’t perform in 66 because Pele was kicked half to death during their game against Portugal!

An often forgotten star of this era is Garrincha, who was eclipsed by Pele, though Brazil never lost a single game when the two played together. He too sadly succumbed to fame and the bottle...

[Saint-Just]

Cruijff’s Dutch team is probably the best memory I have from the time I was following football. Kroll, Vos, Rep, the de Kerkhofs...

Total football indeed from such a small pool

[Gav]

Ronaldinho for me what a player.

[RJM25R]

Pele.

3 world cups says it all.

He and Maradona were both superb for club and country in an era without the one on one training regimes, health and nutrition guidance and supplements plus the lightweight boots, synthetic balls and proper referees who pull up hatchet men if they even breathe on a player hard. Ronaldo couldn’t stand it, and Without growth hormones Messi might not be the player he is....

[Franky Four Fingers]

Where’s Zidane?

[hopak]

.... and George Best?

[Halitosis]

.... and George Best?

Coincidentally George Best died 15 years ago today

[Andyg]

Where’s Zidane?

Early bath, after nutting someone

[Hooshabak]

Which Ronaldo you talking about?

[Devonian]

Where's Gazza?????

In the top 3 players to have been mates with Jimmy5Bellies thread coming soon . . . .

Where’s Zidane?

In the whose the 5th to 10th best player of all time category with Johan, Ferenc, Luis Narario, George, Alfredo and Ronaldo de Assis. Oming next week on George and Dragon

[lenlec]

Maradona. Easily. Rip

[Franky Four Fingers]

In the top 3 players to have been mates with Jimmy5Bellies thread coming soon . . . .



In the whose the 5th to 10th best player of all time category with Johan, Ferenc, Luis Narario, George, Alfredo and Ronaldo de Assis. Oming next week on George and Dragon

👍👍

Controversial I know but if we’re talking GOAT then I’ve never understood why the likes of Pele and Best are even in the running when you have players like Ronaldo and messi. No doubt they were probably greatest within their time but not all time.

[Shane]

Maradona is the best player I've ever seen. If you watch some of his matches you'll see how he was literally kicked off the ball and taken down with studs' up challenges, at a time where this was only penalised with a free kick. He played in a good Argentinian team but which was inferior to other countries - he single-handedly got them to the 1990 WC Final by delivering a goal scoring pass to beat Brazil in the quarters or semis. He was responsible for Napoli winning two titles and a UEFA Cup. Messi and Ronaldo are great players too, but they never played with so many things aganist them as Maradona did.

Btw - the best attacking team I've ever seen is the Brazil 1982 World Cup team.

[bwest76]

James Peter Greaves



13 goals in 12 England under-23 internationals

44 goals in 57 full England internationals between 1959 and 1967

124 First Division goals in just four seasons

Italy Serie A nine goals in 14 appearances


1961-1970
Appearances: 379. Goals: 266.
FA Cup winner 1962, 1967
European CWC winner 1963
The Club's all-time record goalscorer

Arguably the greatest striker ever to grace the game, ‘Greavsie’ set countless records during an incredible playing career, many of which still stand to this day.

[JGJG]

Which Ronaldo you talking about?

Never mind which Ronaldo he’s talking about, I’d like to know which field of human endeavour this thread is talking about....

[Tomas_Meinhardt]

We should define what constitutes the GOAT status. Not easy at all regarding football...

1-Statistics (Pelé based on the World Cups I guess)
2-Influence (probably Cruijff)
3-Longevity/consistency (Messi)
4-Tan (C. Ronaldo :D)*

*Ok I'm biased considering I am from Barcelona.

I guess we should add Di Stefano to the list. The most I enjoyed was Ronaldinho, the lad was magical...

[GraniteQuarry]

Billy.

[demonloop]

I wouldn’t have Pele in my top four

For me,
1. Messi



2. Maradona
3. Ronaldo
4. Ronaldinho
5. Zidane

(I’m aware that’s 5)

[Andyg]

Billy.

Bravo

[Andyg]

An interesting topic but ultimately pointless. Different players, in different teams, different conditions, different rules, different times.

But the player who had the most influence on me personally was Maradona and how he cheated. Put me right off football to be honest.

[Carlos.Trejo]

An interesting topic but ultimately pointless. Different players, in different teams, different conditions, different rules, different times.

But the player who had the most influence on me personally was Maradona and how he cheated. Put me right off football to be honest.

It was amazing how he always played so close to the line!

I'll have to grant it to Messi, bloke fell of the genealogy tree hitting every recessive gene he could, but man, he can play.

[Hood]

The 4 originally listed are correctly named are the only ones worthy of consideration imo.
Big negative for Messi is that he didn’t manage to pull a decent Argentina side to a World Cup victory like Maradona.
I think longevity wise Messi and Ronaldo have been doing it for longer than Maradona ever did.
Pele was before my time so I can’t compare him.
Again before my time but De-Stefano and Puskas would be in that tier ever so slightly below.


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[Thewatchbloke]

Maradona for me, unbelievably talented.

[j0hnbarker]

Depends on the position. Attacking players always dominate these lists.

My favourite player of all time is Paolo Maldini:

One club man

Played until he was 40

5 Champions Leagues

1 World Cup

He made left-back look cool

Maradona was a scumbag in comparison.

[demonloop]

^^ Fabulous player. Loved watching Maldini play.

[Thom4711]

I sold a Sinn to a GOAT on the weekend?

On topic, and for me it's Messi. All the stats, medals, records and trophies are meaningful, but Messi is the one who gives me a visceral sense of joy when I watch him play- everything he does is so effortless and he's been at the top for getting on 15 years. That sort of consistency is not common. Out of any footballer ever to play he is the one I'd choose to watch.

[Franky Four Fingers]

I sold a Sinn to a GOAT on the weekend?

On topic, and for me it's Messi. All the stats, medals, records and trophies are meaningful, but Messi is the one who gives me a visceral sense of joy when I watch him play- everything he does is so effortless and he's been at the top for getting on 15 years. That sort of consistency is not common. Out of any footballer ever to play he is the one I'd choose to watch.

I think the same about ZZ. Full flight the guy was effortless it’s just a shame the way he went out like he did.

[Marios]

Never seen anyone playing better than Maradona.

[Rbains0708]

As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7


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[Saint-Just]

As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7

GK would have to be the Black Spider (Lev Yashin)

[taz11]

For me maradona without a doubt

[Shane]

Milan's whole defence was brilliant - I remember Beresi, Costacurta, Panucci and Maldini.

As mentioned before these lists only ever contain attacking players so I like to list them by position. GK- Buffon. Defender- Maldini. Midfield- Zidane. Forward- CR7


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[Andyg]

To be honest these comparisons are fun, but at the end of the day pointless. If you take just one half decent team you can identify lots of great players.

Take Juventus for example.

Del Piero
Zoff
Platini
Baggio
Zadane
Ronaldo
Buffon.

All pretty handy, all world class and all had a massive influence.

[Devonian]

To be honest these comparisons are fun, but at the end of the day pointless.

But as you say, just a bit of fun, which is all I tried to make it.

I was fully aware that people would have their own 'GOAT's' and that I couldn't add in 20 players. I went for the 4 that seem to come on more than others and even they can't really be compared as the players are from different times.

My uncle would read this and ask me why George Best isn't in it - he is from the south east (just outside London) but supported a northern team - Man Utd fan and so were many of his mates. He was in awe of George and listening to him talk today, he still is. He said what he could do was incredible. Him and his mates travelled the country to watch him play. He said the saddest thing is 95% of what he did was never caught on camera as back then even the BBC didn't go to all of the games.

I guess for George to have had such as short career at the top and never have played in a world cup, but still be considered by many as a great, he must have been quite special.

[mjrennie]

Maradona by a country mile.

Cruyff not getting much of a mention in this thread. He was unbelievable. Beckenbaur was some player too.

I'd go:

Maradona
Pele
Cruyff

[CamCG]

The emphasis in lists like this typically seems to be on attacking players.

I'm guessing this is because their "flair" is that much more evident and can be easily highlighted on YouTube for each generation to relive or discover anew.

Once 5 or 10 players are outlined (typically the same usual suspects), it's often each player's influence in winning (eg Maradona) or failing to win (eg Messi) things like the World Cup which is the final measure by which people ultimately rank them.

However, I'd suggest that it's that final, deciding measure - namely influence on winning competitions - which is the only meaningful attribute that defines a great player, not overt displays of technique or flair.

Influence may be harder to attribute than the ability to make surging, mazy dribbles, but it is of greater importance when all is said and done.

I've seen plenty of YouTube videos on things like the "best dribblers" and the best "skill moves". They're good fun and are typically packed full of moves by players like Ronaldinho, Cryuff and their ilk.

Nevertheless, after these players perform their sublime dribble or skill move, more times than not it seems to turn into a fruitless pass, the loss of the ball to an opponent or it goes out of play. Stunning technique, but then what?

For example, the most famous piece of skill ever performed might be Johann Cryuff's "turn" against Sweden in 1974. But what happened after? His cross missed the target in the box and then ended up outside of the penalty area. The game ended 0-0.

Sure, there are some flair players who undoubtedly had a massive influence on lifting their respective teams to win at the highest level by the very utilisation of their flair. Maradona is the most obvious example in 1986 with Argentina and the two Italian league titles with Napoli.

That said, what about Paolo Maldini? Bobby Moore? Bobby Charlton? Franz Beckenbauer? Lev Yashin? Not exactly players of overt flair, yet their ability to influence a game and, indeed, lift their teams towards glory is well documented.

That quality, that influence, is what I think defines greatness above anything else, in football and indeed any other sport.

Also, unlike flair, it's much harder, perhaps even impossible, to rank.

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[demonloop]

“Influence” is just another attribute though. And I would still argue Messi as having that quality too. But you’d then certainly add Iniesta to the mix. He comtrolled the best team the world has seen for nearly a decade.

[ryanb741]

I'm surprised Carlton Palmer hasn't had a mention here ;)

I've been fortunate to see both Messi and Ronaldo play live - both amazing however I felt Messi is so good because he was in that Barca team that knew how to play to his strengths. For example I saw Barca twice at the Emirates and actually it was Iniesta that was running the show and putting Messi in positions to cause mayhem. Most teams don't have an Iniesta! Stick him in (for example) the Man Utd side and I'm not sure he would be as effective.

Ronaldo would be the best player in the league with any team he plays in - he really is a phenomenal and versatile talent.

But the GOAT is Maradona end of. That man got no protection from referees, was at risk of grievous injury from appalling challenges and did half of all this whilst suffering from a hangover/on a marching powder comedown. Imagine if he'd had the sports nutritionists that today's footballers have.

[Tom-P]

But the GOAT is Maradona end of. That man got no protection from referees, was at risk of grievous injury from appalling challenges

That's certainly the aspect that swings it for me. This is what the great (and for his era relatively clean) Paolo Maldini has said on the matter. “You could not catch him. I was next to him at the Serie A Hall of Fame awards and they showed some of our footage together. I always considered myself a very fair defender, but I have to admit in those videos I was doing some horrible fouls on him, but it was only because he always anticipated me and I was therefore late. He was so quick and was kicked to pieces all through his career, all through the game. I felt ashamed and apologised to him after that clip. I also realised even more than I had remembered just how quickly he controlled the ball and changed direction. He really was extraordinary.”

[ellsy_79]

Messi has won he’s 7th ballon dor tonight, GOAT !

[TaketheCannoli]

Proof of it were needed that this award doesn’t have any credibility whatsoever. Absolute joke of a result.

Messi has won he’s 7th ballon dor tonight, GOAT !

[ellsy_79]

Proof of it were needed that this award doesn’t have any credibility whatsoever. Absolute joke of a result.

To be fair, not sure there was a stand out winner this year, he did manage to score 44 goals and 17 assists in a very poor barca side, he also won the copa with Argentina and was player of the tournament


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[Meesterbond]

I had Lewandowski as the nailed on winner…
41 goals in 29 league appearances and a Bundesliga last season, 14 in 13 already this season. It was a dead cert for him last year until the award was cancelled.

[ellsy_79]

Lewandowski had a good shout but I think messi shades it,


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