The Eddie's on ebay thread.

[Templogin]

Because some of the members here have bought several watches in the past and are likely to buy more in the future...if they're able.

The boom going on at the moment hardly needs more advertising and the watches may be going to one off buyers.

It wouldn't hurt the business to offer members here a chance to jump the line now and then.

It doesn’t matter if they are going to one off buyers. A sold watch is a sold watch. In fact the more people with one watch, arguably the more people will get to see them. It would be better if they were only sold to people who didn’t already own one, but any restrictions one way or the other just adds inconvenience and cost to the vendors process.

[swanbourne]

In order to meet the current demand (and nobody can guarantee that this will last), I would have to make major changes that may not be cost effective.

Firstly, I would need new premises off-site. My present workspace will only support two people working and to keep the site open all the time and sell as many watches as people want to buy, I would need another 3 staff, minimum.

The bottleneck isn't the packing, it's the production of the invoices and customs documentation for UPS. I can produce 5 shipments an hour (4 if it's for the US because they need an extra document). My nephew can pack 10 watches an hour and on a very good day, with no interuptions (rare) we can ship 30 watches.

To overcome this bottleneck, it needs at least two people producing the shipping documents and that means networking the Sage software and investing in a new IT system.

I would have to take these new employees on the books with everything that it entails:

Holiday pay
Sick pay
Pension plan
PAYE
National insurance
Employer's liability insurance
PAT testing
Maternity leave (where applicable)
Staff training

My main concern however, is off-site security. Although all my watches should be unsellable due to me being the only source of them, I still doubt this would deter any would-be robbers.

Do I want all this at my time of life? To take the business to the next stage needs someone who already has the infrastructure in place and that's not going to be me. I'll sell more than 3000 watches this year and all the signs indicate that this could be at least double and I'm not even certain that my manufacturer could manage such an increase.

Eddie

[wileeeeeey]

Have you considered looking at your pricing, Eddie?

There’s an argument to say the watches are underpriced given the market value vs RRP.

Given that you can’t be expected to do the above and take on more people you could deal with it through price and at least lessen the scalpers that way.

[kace]

In order to meet the current demand (and nobody can guarantee that this will last), I would have to make major changes that may not be cost effective.

Firstly, I would need new premises off-site. My present workspace will only support two people working and to keep the site open all the time and sell as many watches as people want to buy, I would need another 3 staff, minimum.

The bottleneck isn't the packing, it's the production of the invoices and customs documentation for UPS. I can produce 5 shipments an hour (4 if it's for the US because they need an extra document). My nephew can pack 10 watches an hour and on a very good day, with no interuptions (rare) we can ship 30 watches.

To overcome this bottleneck, it needs at least two people producing the shipping documents and that means networking the Sage software and investing in a new IT system.

I would have to take these new employees on the books with everything that it entails:

Holiday pay
Sick pay
Pension plan
PAYE
National insurance
Employer's liability insurance
PAT testing
Maternity leave (where applicable)
Staff training

My main concern however, is off-site security. Although all my watches should be unsellable due to me being the only source of them, I still doubt this would deter any would-be robbers.

Do I want all this at my time of life? To take the business to the next stage needs someone who already has the infrastructure in place and that's not going to be me. I'll sell more than 3000 watches this year and all the signs indicate that this could be at least double and I'm not even certain that my manufacturer could manage such an increase.

Eddie

The number of firms that take that step and then the business can't cover the increased costs is huge. It would be a huge leap for anyone, I don't blame you al all for not wanting to do it.

[Ruggertech]

A quick (and admittedly not exhaustive) search reveals 6 brand new timefactors watches available on eBay as I write this post.
To me it wouldn't seem to be worth Eddie's time and trouble to check who bought them, then block them from ordering again (if the software has that facility), and if it doesn't having to sift through the 200 orders every few Sundays to cancel any new orders from them.
And if he did have the time and inclination to do that, all they have to do is not show the serial numbers in the first place or get a friend to order their next watch if caught.

[Templogin]

This strikes me as a perfect time to sell the business

[ralphy]

I take the other view.
The lack of availability is the tail that is wagging the dog.
Eddie has a pipeline of new, popular and to-be-restocked items that are simply not reaching their fans because there us not enough despatch capability.
It makes no sense to me, as the whole issue of re-selling (and dissatisfaction with the lack of availability) are being maintained by a lack of one or two relatively low skilled (but responsible and meticulous) emoloyees.
I know Eddie is not income-obsessed, but he could double turnover with the addition of 2 relatively cheap employees. That's a ludicrously cheap way to double the size of a reasonably large business.
I suspect Eddie has the cashflow now to be restocking existing models quicker than he is, but there is no point with the current restricted flow.
The tail is wagging the whole kennel
Dave

I think it makes sense to Eddie.

Fine for you Ralphy, you get sent many of them to dive with and photograph. Like most others, I don't

You could always take up diving and then underwater photography, perhaps then Eddie would send 'many' of his watches to you? Do bear in mind that you'll have to pay for them though.

As I said, I think the way Eddie runs his business makes sense to him - and he does seem to manage his business rather well as it is.

R

[abraxas]

Why would Eddie want to get them to different buyers? If he has 200 watches he just needs to sell them to whosoever will hand over the money. The hype around the watches from the buyers is great free advertising. The whole point of being in business is not to make watches, it is to make money.

I disagree. Rolex could make a hell of a lot more money. But keeping the desire for the brand high through natural shortage is far more important. In this game the brand is everything.

[ralphy]

Why would Eddie want to get them to different buyers? If he has 200 watches he just needs to sell them to whosoever will hand over the money. The hype around the watches from the buyers is great free advertising. The whole point of being in business is not to make watches, it is to make money.

I don't think that's the whole point to Eddie.

R

[Dave+63]

I don't think that's the whole point to Eddie.

R

I agree, that’s a very blinkered view.

There are as many reasons for owning a business as there are business owners; every one has their own reasons/motivations and very few are primarily about making money.

[Templogin]

It’s obvious that Eddie enjoys what he does, and no-one would dispute that he produces good watches, but his priority is not to have them gathering dust on a shelf. He wants to sell them, something that he has no problem in doing.

[Suds]

Imagine if Eddie asked you to buy a NOS item in order to get the call...

[abraxas]

This strikes me as a perfect time to sell the business

Do you think that will give you the watches you want?

[Templogin]

I have enough watches thanks!

[blackal]

I take the other view.
The lack of availability is the tail that is wagging the dog.
Eddie has a pipeline of new, popular and to-be-restocked items that are simply not reaching their fans because there us not enough despatch capability.
It makes no sense to me, as the whole issue of re-selling (and dissatisfaction with the lack of availability) are being maintained by a lack of one or two relatively low skilled (but responsible and meticulous) emoloyees.
I know Eddie is not income-obsessed, but he could double turnover with the addition of 2 relatively cheap employees. That's a ludicrously cheap way to double the size of a reasonably large business.
I suspect Eddie has the cashflow now to be restocking existing models quicker than he is, but there is no point with the current restricted flow.
The tail is wagging the whole kennel
Dave

There is a big jump from employing a relative on a loose-family basis - and taking the leap to fully-fledged employing.

Plus - Look at the model of the Indian shopkeeper - they employ family not only because it is cheaper and benefits the family - they do it because 'family' won't rob the owner.

[sweets]

I am glad we have an explanation from the horse's mouth, it certainly helps clarify the situation, even if it doesn't resolve it. At all. I am sure my custom has not been missed at all.

I should add that I have no problem with Ralphy getting all the TF watches he wants, his images and skills are way beyond mine, and promote the watches beautifully.
I made the point not because I think he gets watches for free, I am sure he doesn't, but the comment about the impossible buying experience "making sense" grated, as Ralphy demonstrably doesn't have to pitch himself into the 2-minute buying window.
He often has his watch before it is released (as his photos feature in the brochure that everyone else gets). All fine and above board, as I say. It was the comment that I reacted to, that is all.

[Carlos.Trejo]

I disagree. Rolex could make a hell of a lot more money. But keeping the desire for the brand high through natural shortage is far more important. In this game the brand is everything.

Funny thing, this is the same problem Rolex is having. Some of their models are already sold before reaching the shelves, but to increase production they'd need to spend several billions to make even more manufacturing facilities like these four:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

And even taking aside the issue of finding enough qualified personnel on Switzerland to run the sites, it's billions spent, years before the facilities are running and they aren't even sure the demand will be there when they're done as there's a non zero chance that current demand is just a bubble and eventually things will settle down.

So, things are complicated for Rolex, even more for Eddie.

[Kingstepper]

Funny thing, this is the same problem Rolex is having. Some of their models are already sold before reaching the shelves, but to increase production they'd need to spend several billions to make even more manufacturing facilities like these four:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

And even taking aside the issue of finding enough qualified personnel on Switzerland to run the sites, it's billions spent, years before the facilities are running and they aren't even sure the demand will be there when they're done as there's a non zero chance that current demand is just a bubble and eventually things will settle down.

So, things are complicated for Rolex, even more for Eddie.

Is it really billions, where has that come from?

[ralphy]

I am glad we have an explanation from the horse's mouth, it certainly helps clarify the situation, even if it doesn't resolve it. At all. I am sure my custom has not been missed at all.

I should add that I have no problem with Ralphy getting all the TF watches he wants, his images and skills are way beyond mine, and promote the watches beautifully.
I made the point not because I think he gets watches for free, I am sure he doesn't, but the comment about the impossible buying experience "making sense" grated, as Ralphy demonstrably doesn't have to pitch himself into the 2-minute buying window.
He often has his watch before it is released (as his photos feature in the brochure that everyone else gets). All fine and above board, as I say. It was the comment that I reacted to, that is all.

You don't half make some incorrect assumptions.

R

[Carlos.Trejo]

Is it really billions, where has that come from?

Rolex is a private company and well known for being overly secretive, but it's known that the Bienne facility (who only makes movements) was purchased for over 1 billion CHF, to actually increase production they'd need to make more facilities or improve the capacity of actual ones for cases, dial, calibres, etc. Its easy to see that ramping up production to match demand will be in the several billions.

And it would get even worse, as Switzerland has an unemployment rate of 4.94%, so getting the needed personnel to run all of that would mean to get in a bidding war with other companies.

[fogar]

Let’s get back to topic, first one spotted in the wild: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Mo...-/175084548348

[RLE]

See the Everest Jubilee sold too.......best offer accepted on the listing price of £1175.00.

Here

[M4tt]

Rolex is a private company and well known for being overly secretive, but it's known that the Bienne facility (who only makes movements) was purchased for over 1 billion CHF, to actually increase production they'd need to make more facilities or improve the capacity of actual ones for cases, dial, calibres, etc. Its easy to see that ramping up production to match demand will be in the several billions.

And it would get even worse, as Switzerland has an unemployment rate of 4.94%, so getting the needed personnel to run all of that would mean to get in a bidding war with other companies.

You do realise that the 'Bienne facility' is the old Aegler factory and had produced movements for no one but Rolex since the 1930s. As such, the complicated buyout of the Aegler family, who owned the factory would not have increased production one whit and tells us next to nothing about the cost of a new factory, rather than buying out one's movement supplier.

[Crowsfoot]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125079736441


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Crowsfoot]

PRS29A Mk1 2016 on eBay


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[TheGent]

See the Everest Jubilee sold too.......best offer accepted on the listing price of £1175.00.

Here

Is that the same as this one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125080847958


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralphy]

Is that the same as this one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125080847958


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He;s got 3 of Eddie's watches for sale.

R

[bobc]

PRS29A Mk1 2016 on eBay


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

The seller is from Oldham, as you are. Not against the rules but are you the seller ?

[Raffe]

The seller is from Oldham, as you are. Not against the rules but are you the seller ?

Ahem. Quite likely, I'd say.

I have a few TF watches on eBay right now including a TF Explorer Black dial on Forstner Klip, a white dial TF Explorer and a Baby Dreadnought. Selling as need the cash.

The eBay account has sold a Baby Dreadnought.

And a white-dialled PRS-48, for which Crowsfoot had a WTB just a few weeks earlier.

Would be very strange coincidences?

[Carlos.Trejo]

You do realise that the 'Bienne facility' is the old Aegler factory and had produced movements for no one but Rolex since the 1930s. As such, the complicated buyout of the Aegler family, who owned the factory would not have increased production one whit and tells us next to nothing about the cost of a new factory, rather than buying out one's movement supplier.

I still stand for the plural billions, I know the Bienne facility was purchased from the Aegler family for 1 billion (it's on the same bloody link I posted), actually, had you cared about reading it, they already owned 50% of it. But after that they started an expansion to make the factory to either 170.000 or 92.00 cubic square meters of space that just ended in 2012.

But those are just movements, even if you make a facility just like that to duplicated capacity, you need another Chêne-Bourg, Plan-Les-Ouates and Les Acacias.

After all, turns out, doing things the Rolex way is bloody expensive.

[Rev-O]

Let’s get back to topic, first one spotted in the wild: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smiths-Mo...-/175084548348

From the description in the listing:

“Though my primary interest is via trade, but I am also considering selling it if I don't get sufficiently interesting offers. I paid total of $1,325 (973GBP) back on Nov 14 (serial 8/50) with tax and custom/handling paid to UPS ($46.22). This is still a great value given other watches using the same movement cost $2,300 to $3,300 by Farer and Vertex.

I am not interested in making profit off of this watch (what I paid plus expected ebay and PP fees from my end), and prefer this watch to go to a fellow enthusiast. I would be happy to let it go for what I paid plus shipping to you insured from Florida, USA.”

Fair enough.

[fogar]

From the description in the listing:

“Though my primary interest is via trade, but I am also considering selling it if I don't get sufficiently interesting offers. I paid total of $1,325 (973GBP) back on Nov 14 (serial 8/50) with tax and custom/handling paid to UPS ($46.22). This is still a great value given other watches using the same movement cost $2,300 to $3,300 by Farer and Vertex.

I am not interested in making profit off of this watch (what I paid plus expected ebay and PP fees from my end), and prefer this watch to go to a fellow enthusiast. I would be happy to let it go for what I paid plus shipping to you insured from Florida, USA.”

Fair enough.

Still, $1800 is a bit more than $1,325 plus fees and taxes. All fine and dandy but seems contradictory, to say the least

[RLE]

Still, $1800 is a bit more than $1,325 plus fees and taxes. All fine and dandy but seems contradictory, to say the least

I follow the seller on Instagram and we’ve conversed quite a bit. Seems a really decent guy. He sold the watch on WUS but forgot to end the listing on EBay and it sold there too. Ended up refunding the buyer on EBay and honoured his sale to the WUS member despite a lower asking price.

[Stuart]

I wish some kind and community-minded TZ-UK member who has the time (I currently lack the time or skill to do this) could make it a project to research and track down these eBay profiteers and link them with forum member IDs and pass these on to Eddie with the request that they are banned.
Those loyal to the forum offer their watches for sale for fair prices and here first. Many of these same members, some of whom have been loyal community members and collectors and buyers for a decade or two, just cannot manage the fight to buy nowadays, which is sad.

[Kirk280]

In order to meet the current demand (and nobody can guarantee that this will last), I would have to make major changes that may not be cost effective.

Firstly, I would need new premises off-site. My present workspace will only support two people working and to keep the site open all the time and sell as many watches as people want to buy, I would need another 3 staff, minimum.

The bottleneck isn't the packing, it's the production of the invoices and customs documentation for UPS. I can produce 5 shipments an hour (4 if it's for the US because they need an extra document). My nephew can pack 10 watches an hour and on a very good day, with no interuptions (rare) we can ship 30 watches.

To overcome this bottleneck, it needs at least two people producing the shipping documents and that means networking the Sage software and investing in a new IT system.

I would have to take these new employees on the books with everything that it entails:

Holiday pay
Sick pay
Pension plan
PAYE
National insurance
Employer's liability insurance
PAT testing
Maternity leave (where applicable)
Staff training

My main concern however, is off-site security. Although all my watches should be unsellable due to me being the only source of them, I still doubt this would deter any would-be robbers.

Do I want all this at my time of life? To take the business to the next stage needs someone who already has the infrastructure in place and that's not going to be me. I'll sell more than 3000 watches this year and all the signs indicate that this could be at least double and I'm not even certain that my manufacturer could manage such an increase.

Eddie

Hi Eddie, have you considered periodically selling sought after watches via SC for UK only customers? Would that simplify the paperwork for UPS? It might discourage the leakage to eBay (refuse to sell to known dealers and hoovers!), and reduce the pressure on your Sunday openings?

[williemays]

Hi Eddie, have you considered periodically selling sought after watches via SC for UK only customers? Would that simplify the paperwork for UPS? It might discourage the leakage to eBay (refuse to sell to known dealers and hoovers!), and reduce the pressure on your Sunday openings?

The flipping is shameful, but restricting sales by location seems antithetical to the spirit of the brand. For example, see the Dreadnought and Royal Navy Diver owners maps:

http://www.prs2dreadnought.com/owners.htm

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...n)-owners-list

Same for arguing for price increases to discourage resellers, when Timefactors is known for high quality watches at affordable prices.

[sweets]

But surely the concept that flies in the face of the brand more is profiteering.
As you say, Eddie works very hard to provide great watches at very affordable prices, given the specification.
He doesn't do that simply to allow someone to plonk another couple of hundred quid on top by re-selling.
But that is exactly what is happening.

[kace]

I wish some kind and community-minded TZ-UK member who has the time (I currently lack the time or skill to do this) could make it a project to research and track down these eBay profiteers and link them with forum member IDs and pass these on to Eddie with the request that they are banned.
Those loyal to the forum offer their watches for sale for fair prices and here first. Many of these same members, some of whom have been loyal community members and collectors and buyers for a decade or two, just cannot manage the fight to buy nowadays, which is sad.

And if they're not members here?

[Templogin]

Why would Eddie want the hassle and expense of vetting customers, and how would it be done? Timefactors is a success if a box of x hundred watches are designed, ordered, manufactured, sold and shipped. Scalpers will do what scalpers do. Some fool will always pay over the odds. That's the grip of FOMO.

[Ruggertech]

As I said in post 505, if Eddie sells 200 watches on a Sunday and half a dozen end up on ebay why should that be his problem? He is already doing all the work he has the time and energy for. So four choices are left, join the Sunday melee, buy off ebay, wait for one on sales corner, or not bother.

[ralphy]

But surely the concept that flies in the face of the brand more is profiteering.
As you say, Eddie works very hard to provide great watches at very affordable prices, given the specification.
He doesn't do that simply to allow someone to plonk another couple of hundred quid on top by re-selling.
But that is exactly what is happening.

That is correct, Eddie doesn't do that simply to allow someone to plonk another couple of hundred quid on top by re-selling, he does it to provide great watches at very affordable prices.

What else happens thereafter is irrelevant to him, I would think.

R

[Kirk280]

Selling some watches through SC in addition to Sunday openings would surely be an easier way to sell more watches? It would also “reward” us loyal TZers!

[bobc]

Selling some watches through SC in addition to Sunday openings would surely be an easier way to sell more watches? It would also “reward” us loyal TZers!

Think that's an excellent idea as I'm never going to get anything in the sunday scramble as not computer savvy enough. Say a tenner or so extra to be paid into the fundraiser which I would be happy with and maybe others?

[Kingstepper]

Selling some watches through SC in addition to Sunday openings would surely be an easier way to sell more watches? It would also “reward” us loyal TZers!

But, as I understand, Eddie doesn't want to sell more watches and couldn't cope with the extra shipping. If he did, he'd simply open longer on the Sundays.

[bobc]

^ Some of the allocated number he can deal with could be sold via sc with a small fundraiser donation on top.

[Rev-O]

Selling some on SC is a great idea. It means 1.) less pressure on the Sunday slot (assuming it was instead of, rather than as well as, those sales.) Also 2.) some vetting criteria to reward loyal members.

He already has the marketplace and mechanism he needs, it was here all along right under our noses!

[Wallasey Runner]

A great idea to release a few within SC. I have tried and failed to buy on a couple of those Sunday afternoons. I would happily put £20 in the FR for each watch that I am allowed to buy. Even happy to send Eddie a cheque if he wants to sell old school.

[Raffe]

Just a curious question: how would you sell via SC as opposed to the webshop?

Pre-announce the time of listing or it will be only for those who live on SC. But even then, what is different from completing a transaction on SC or via webshop? It would still require that you be fast and complete the transaction before the allocation is exhausted. Whether it will be posting a "yes please" message in the thread or a PM, it will be the same sort of race as completing a purchase through the webshop.

And then, how does the settlement work? The webshop exists for a reason: it facilitates the settlement of transactions. All SC trades would have to be manually put into Shopify so Eddie can work with the tried and tested shipping and invoicing.

I cannot see what would be different.

One thing that could facilitate buying for the true fans is to announce the next opening of the webshop not via the normal mailing list but only on the forum, limiting the crowd to forum members only. A bit like rock bands giving their fanclubs a first access in ticket sales.

[Templogin]

A great idea to release a few within SC. I have tried and failed to buy on a couple of those Sunday afternoons. I would happily put £20 in the FR for each watch that I am allowed to buy. Even happy to send Eddie a cheque if he wants to sell old school.

This confirms what I have been saying, people will pay more.

Another point that people have mentioned is "loyal members". If selling via the SC is the thing to do that why not pick the last x contributors to the fundraiser? Now that would get the contributions up!

[bobc]

If Eddie were to post say 10 watches on sc unannounced and the first 10 to pm, get them. He could do this as many times as he likes and folk would be following sc much more, so more tz traffic. Watches would go to tz regulars and not dealers. It's probably too much hassle tbh but a nice idea.

Eddie has not commented so I suspect that he's not that interested, like to hear your thought's Eddie.