Reply With QuoteOf course I trust them. So long as the correct crown gasket is in place there’s no reason not to.
Just wanted to start a little discussion
Do you trust a non-screw down crown watch? Say '100m' water resistance.
For some reason I do not trust them for water activities, but there screw down crown counterparts I have no problem trusting!
Anyone else feel the same?
It has previously put me off watches to.
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Of course I trust them. So long as the correct crown gasket is in place there’s no reason not to.
Maybe mind over matter, I do tend to air on the side of caution with my watches.
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There is an argument that the non-screwdown is the better one to trust, as you do not need to do anything to it for it to have the WR raing that it possesses.
The WR is inherent in the pressure of the seals against the stem or the seals inside the crown against the tube.
Compare that to a screwdown crown that is not properly screwed down? The WR rating of many screwdown designs is assisted (or given in greater part) by the pressure that screwing them down pushes onto the sealing rings, and if that pressure is not applied, what rating remains?
I know Bremont were very keen to point out (in their early days) that the WR rating of their chronos, at 100m, was tested without screwing down the crowns. That is not the case for all makers.
Dave
I wouldn't trust a hand wound.
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
Very informative, how about if you leave the crown pulled out to say the date change position though?Originally Posted by sweets
I guess you could extend this worry to non screwdown chrono pushers to.
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Providing it's a reputable brand, then the WR rating is what it is, so I trust it to do what it claims.
Huh?
I had a 1000m wr Enebbi Fondale that seemed to manage ok with a push crown.
Cheers..
Jase
yes,a screw down crown is in case you forget its out so if its in and rated it should be fine.
Explain please.
As as been said, if it says WR100 on it, then it is very likely to meet that standard - at least until the seals fail.....
My understanding is that on most, but not all, watches a screw down crown exists only to avoid the crown being dislodged whilst underwater, and doesn't provide any additional WR in itself. After all, a Rolex DJ doesn't have a screw down crown (I assume!) and even the most water-phobic WIS have no qualms about getting one of those wet!
No I don't, partly because the bulk of my watches are outside of any guarantee and for some the value lies in the dual. I suspect they'd be fine but I've no reason not to err on the side of caution so wear my Gshock for any water based activities.
I wear all my watches in the water and have done all my life, without any issues. In fact, prior to looking at watch forums I wouldn’t have given any water based activity a second thought, and would also shower or bath with them on.
Reading some threads you would have thought that you need at least 100m WR to take a dump wearing your watch!
Oyster cases are all screw down I believe. But I agree with your sentiment.
Should be fine provided there are no sharks about...
Consider this, a Breitling Chronospace chrono' has a screw down crown but non-screw pump pushers, WR 200 mts.
A Fortis B42 Marinemaster/Cosmonaut chrono' has a push-pull crown & non screw pusher,
WR 200mts.
Tudor Heritage/BB chrono' screw down crown & pushers WR 150mts.
Bremont Alt1 'chrono push-pull crown non-screw pusher 100mts.
It's all about the seals/gaskets, case design that determine water resistancy IMHO.
So yes, I absolutely trust the WR rating from a manufacturer, whether push-pull or screw down, it makes no difference to me.
It seems I am in the minority here then! Always good to hear from other members here, and its reassuring to see people have no problems with watches with push pull crowns.
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This is the end result of a DJ being in the water without the crown having been screwed down.
(Whether it had been left in pos. 1 or pos. 2 is unknown, but given that it was my wife's and she'd unscrewed it for the time zone difference I'm assuming pos. 2).
Irrespective of that, I've never had a push-down crown fail on me underwater.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Hand winds... as they are wound every day... the crown assembly seal twists, and will eventually harden in the new twisted and slightly shrunk condition. In the old days you would be asked (after fully winding) to reverse the crown a bit. But these details (with autos and screwed crowns) have been lost in time.
Let's put it this way. With autos the crown gets used a lot less and that must be a good thing for water resistance.
Just because people swim with this and that it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Also, the same people would be thinking and doing different if their life depended on a mechanical watch on a daily basis.
Last edited by abraxas; 24th November 2020 at 13:08.
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
In answer to the thread question, no.
That said, I take my divers off to do the washing up, so (aside from when I'm ACTUALLY diving) I rarely worry too much about the WR of any of my watches.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Yes, and I also believe that the Earth is round, men have been to the moon and Santa really exists.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Yes, and I also believe that the Earth is round, men have been to the moon and Santa really exists.
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I would trust a push crown, that said I do have one watch with a push down crown that likes to open all on its own.
For some reason the crown on my SandY 490 pops open of its own accord when I wear it. I guess it must catch on the back of my hand and get pulled out. It’s not a watch I would wear anywhere near water though.
Ouch! Was that salvageable?This is the end result of a DJ being in the water without the crown having been screwed down.
(Whether it had been left in pos. 1 or pos. 2 is unknown, but given that it was my wife's and she'd unscrewed it for the time zone difference I'm assuming pos. 2).
Irrespective of that, I've never had a push-down crown fail on me underwater.
R
Depends on the depth rating for me.
Anything below 100m rated I treat as "splashproof".
Between 100m and 200m rated I treat as ok to keep it on while shaving.
200m or better rated is waterproof - if used as directed and kept in good nick.
No watch is waterproof if the seals have gone.
No, it was written off by the insurance company.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I would agree that there is something reassuring about tightening the crown by screw before thinking of going for a swim.
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I always have. I even used to shower wearing a Speed master.
I have seen a guy dive in a speedmaster on Instagram
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Crikey! I thought I was pushing the boundaries with a 3 bar power shower.I have seen a guy dive in a speedmaster on Instagram
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I wondered how long it would be before someone mentioned the Speedmaster!
I had a 2005 limited edition Speedmaster and was always paranoid about getting it near water.
So I guess my answer is "it depends"...
Simon
I managed most of the 80’s wearing a Tag Heuer F1 as my holiday watch - which is rated at 200m with a push in crown - never had an issue. The crown that I worried about the least was the Panerai luminor design, where there’s a lever that pushes the crown ‘in’. Not sure if it’s there to press the seal in, or to prevent the crown turning?
Over the years I’ve grown to distrust screw down crowns. You’re fine with a Łthousands watch like a Rolex, but lots of micro brands - actually I’ll include Seiko and Citizen, plus Zeno - have, in my experience, truly horrible, gritty crowns where I feel I have to be really careful not to damage the threads. My current daily wearer - a Seiko arnie reissue - was really awful when new, like it was grinding sand when you opened or closed it - however a few minutes with dental floss and it now operates beautifully smoothly - why they don’t pay attention to a bit of QC - excuse the pun - really grinds my gears!
So.. are all the people like me who shower /bathe/ swim in watches rated 50 or 100m (eg Rolex DJ) mad or just lucky?
I had this exact question about screw down crown and WR in relation to the tag I listed on SC.
I can’t understand it, if the watch is rated to 100m it can handle being submerged in water providing the maintenance is good and regular. Although on that watch in particular I didn’t understand the 100m WR when it’s on a croc leather strap, but change that and jump in the sea...it’ll be fine.
Although I thought this was going to degenerate into is it okay to get my sea-dweller wet!
Flexing / distortion of the case is a key factor when a watch is subjected to pressure, the crown seal design and security of the crown is significant but at the 100 metres WR level its not the over- riding factor.
I don’t wear watches to swim or bathe, I don’t see the point, but I need a watch be suitable for everyday wear and that includes getting splashed rain or when washing hands. If a watch is designed to be WR to 30 metres and its passed that test I’m happy, provided I know that the seals are in good condition or have been replaced. If it meets both criteria it won’t leak, even if I forget to take it off whilst having a quick shower or washing the dog.
Apologies but I laughed at that. Obviously they are your watches but I think you are being a tad over cautious. As long as they have had a pressure test every 18 months you would be very unlucky to have any problems. (Operator error excluded)
I refer my friends to the many charts published on the interwebs.
I'll also admit to a degree of caution and a degree of attempted tongue in cheek humour in my answer.
I also refer my friends to ISO 6425 which often explains why some watches have diver written on the dial and some don't.
Have swum and dived with a push-in crown Speedmaster Solar Impulse with no problems and dived with a screw-in crown IWC Aquatimer that leaked and had to be substantially rebuilt.
I'm always a bit puzzled by these sort of discussions; the WR rating is either adequate, or it isn't, the way the case is sealed is irrelevant as long as the watch can perform.
I've only got one watch that I make sure to avoid getting wet - my -69ST moonwatch, because it's elderly and I don't 100% trust the seals (and it would upset me badly if I flooded it).
Yeah, but these charts - presumably the same as ones included in watch user guides - are the root of the problem! They include WR pressures / depths (eg 3 bar / 30m, 5bar / 50m) and suggested usages, but the usages and depths are utterly inconsistent! 30M is a helluva depth, the height of a 10 storey building, deeper than most casual divers go, yet the usage is 'splashproof - do not immerse'! So - I always want to ask 'which is it?' - the result is total confusion and endless forum debates like this one!
These discussions lead me back to an article I read a while back. Bottom line: water resistance figures are down to the marketing department. (And dynamic pressure effects are an urban myth)
Take a read: https://www.thewatchsite.com/threads...s-reality.107/
And if you want to use any watch in water: have it tested first
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 25th November 2020 at 20:50.
Good explanation. Thanks for sharing.
So your conclusion is that "So the final conclusion regarding ratings is that you should not trust them very much, they don't mean much and is often a mere marketing tool and the difference between models can be great". Which I'm sure is perfectly true, but leaves most of us in a state of total confusion! Does that mean we should all buy our own pressure testers? btw I have read some forum posts where WR30 watches have been taken down to 30m and survived happily, so I guess you are right that its complete guesswork!
Thanks for posting.....I think!
I think that covers it!
On my GS, yes. I have no call to use the WR, and would avoid it as with pretty much all my watches, but I would trust Seiko’s design, manufacture, tolerances and redundancy as much as I would the mid range Swiss tool watches.
Well Yes, we'd trust the major Japanese brands, and Swiss brands, and everyone in the world expects a Rolex to be WR, but what about some more fashion-orientated brands? Bit of a risk to get them wet? But this was the whole point of official standards - to remove the need for this kind of guessing game!
From my 18th up to my 25th which included a few army years, my watch used to be a Prisma Blue Line 100, an analogue quartz watch with a 100m WR and screw down crown. I used and abused the watch like no other I've owned since, swimming in the pool, sea and rivers, sleeping and showering with it and subjecting it to to all kinds of army activities. It never failed me, new battery every few years and away she went. It's still lying around in drawer at my parents house somewhere, my dad has used for at least 10 years after I gave it to him.
So, lighten up and do your "thing";)
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
With regards to most Seiko's it makes no difference to the water resistance if the crown is a screw down one or not, for example screwing the crown down on the 6309 or 7548 divers has no effect whatsoever on the seal.
There are one or two notable exceptions such as the 7549-7010 or the 6159-7010 tunas where a seal is squashed and expanded against the sides of the case tube and crown by the screw down action.
By contrast on a lot of Soviet watches the seal is actually created by screwing the crown down and compressing a seal against the end of the case tube.
I'd trust the water resistance rating of any new watch regardless of what system it uses. However, I wouldn't trust the water resistance of any watch that's gone past its service interval without being inspected and checked, and I wouldn't go anywhere near water with a vintage watch even if it had just passed a pressure test!
Most G Shocks use push buttons. Most rated for 200m. Absolutely trust-worthy.
Not having ever gone diving, I wonder what dive computers use? I would bet they ain't screw-down.
Dive computers don't have screw-down crowns as there's no internal mechanical adjustment needed in them, all functions are accessed via membrane pushers.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
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