Hi All
I have never played computer games - my age, I think.
But I really like the idea of a flight simulator - learning the basics of how to control a plane and flying around simply for the pleasure of it. Or going further and planning and navigating journeys.
From what I have read, Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) seems a very attractive option. But I don't even have a PC (I just use a Chromebook for my modest computing needs).
Is a high end PC the best option or could I play this with a games console instead? Could a games console link to 'proper' controls such as a yolk and throttle levers?
Are there simpler and cheaper options that would still provide an immersive experience, especially for a flying and gaming novice?
I don't have fibre broadband - not even sure whether it is available where I live (Suffolk coast) so that might also affect whether or not Microsoft Flight Simulator is an option?
But as I am retired, at least I have plenty of time to learn and practise.
Your thoughts and ideas welcome
ATB
Jon
I was excited when the new MS Flight Sim was launched - downloaded it (thanks to my son's XBOX subscription.. it was free) and... NO! Hardware fail! You need a fairly hefty spec PC for this.
I've resigned myself to the fact I'll not be flying for a while yet.
So, yeah, you'll need a meaty PC especially if you want to add proper extras/controls.
Careful.... it could lead to taking over the spare room:
If you have an iPad or tablet have a look at Real Flight Simulator (RFS) its bit like a diet / decaf version of MSFS. (no where near as detailed obviously)
It allows you to 'fly' but also plan routes, interact with air traffic control, set loads etc. On the pro version it has airports all over the wold, some in very accurate detail - others not. e.g. main hubs like Heathrow or OR Tambo are very detailed - Robert Mugabe International is not.
The graphics are not bad, with hundreds of skins for the various aircraft included and the are adding planes all the time. The controls for a tablet game are quite realistic, its quite a good way to waste 30 mins or so. Might be a way to test before diving in.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 23rd November 2020 at 13:56.
Sometimes the stars align and it is your moment to step up!
I was in your exact position. I have for a while liked the idea of learning to fly but reluctant to take the plunge in the real world. I dabbled with Microsoft Flight Sim as far back as '98, and then a little with some of the more recent versions, but dabble really is the word. When FS2020 was announced last year I started following with great interest. In the run up to launch I got quite enthusiastic, and I ended up going in head first. I purchased a 49" 32:9 ratio "super ultra wide" monitor, and started placing back orders for various flight sim hardware (remember how toilet paper was in the spring? That's flight sticks right now). Due to our office shut down, I had earlier in the year taken home with me an extremely high specification gaming PC that we use for testing VR environments, so processing wise I was all set.
Over the past few months I have slowly upgraded my kit as items have become available, first with a very basic joystick, then moving up to a new Thrustmaster unit, and now I have acquired a Honeycomb yoke. On top of that I have acquired various off-the-shelf components including throttle quadrants, switch panels, radio panels, LCD multifunction displays. It is getting out of hand quite frankly. I'm awaiting a pre-order of Honeycomb's throttle unit, and I have some decent rudder pedals on back order (easily the hardest component to acquire at the moment I would say).
I have to say I am having an absolute blast. I'm taking it slowly and treating this as an educational process, I'm not cutting corners to get to the fun stuff, no matter how tempting it is. 4 months in and I still haven't even bothered loading any of the airliners, small jets or even a turbo prop plane. The software will assist you to the point that anyone can take off in an A320 but I want to be able to understand the what and the why, and without professional tuition it is a slow process of reverting to text and a lot of youtube. My wife has questioned why I'm reading so many pilots operating handbooks for planes I don't own. I have now at least moved on to twin engine aircraft, and I'm now flying "glass cockpits" - primarily the Garmin G1000 system. But initially I just learnt the basics in a fixed pitch single prop plane with old school dials.
I've taught myself the fundamentals of control, radio based navigation with NDBs and VORs. I am currently teaching myself instrument landing procedures. Once I've got that I'll tentatively fire up a small jet I think. Long term I have now started investigating real flying lessons and progression to a pilots license. I've made enquiries with one or two flying clubs about cost etc.
Hopefully you'll see that, if this is something that interests you, then there is plenty to go at and I don't think you'll be disappointed. The upgrade path I have taken in such a short space of time also proves it can be done on varying budgets (more on that next), as my first joystick was £25 but the latest yoke was £250.
OK but back to reality unfortunately. The PC I am playing on is preposterous. It cost the business £6k just a couple of years ago, and despite all that power (I'll get you some exact specs later if you're interested) it manages 35 frames per second with all the settings at, or very close to "Ultra", i.e. the maximum. But the resolution of the screen is 5120x1440 so in terms of pixels it is close to 4k but at a wider ratio. But given that "high end gaming" is in the 60-120 fps range these days, it should give you a measure of how much this game works the hardware. That said, on smaller, lower resolution screens you could have the same framerate at a lower specification, and again if you dropped the fidelity the required spec will continue to drop. I think to get the experience I'm having today it would cost me £2k at least for the PC itself. Perhaps £2.5k. If you can get your hands on one of the latest 30x0 Nvidia GPUs, or the latest AMD cards just announced (they're hens teeth), then you could have an incredible experience for £1.5 to £2k I think. It's a lot of money, even on a luxury watch forum, no two ways about it.
Internet connection wise - I have fibre but it's not amazing. 22mbps on a great day and I can stream high res data just fine. I have had a few off days when it's been down at 5mbps and the game has switched me over to offline data as it doesn't think it can keep up.
Happy to answer any questions and share some pics etc. I am dreading the moment when I have to give the PC back and replace it from my own wallet, but that will not be optional - I'm way too in to it now.
It is a rather deep and twisty rabbit hole this flight sim lark isn’t it!Originally Posted by Hammond
I’m running MSFS 2020 at 4K on a Ryzen 3700X CPU and an Nvidia GTX1070 Ti GPU, so you don’t need an especially powerful computer, especially on the prop stuff where scenery is moving slower. Still not a basic PC admittedly, but you could build something around those bits or the current GPU equivalent for less than £1k I think.
For MSFS2020 a good internet connection seems to be just as important.
I play a number of other flight sims as well, Prepar3d hardly gets a look in now that MSFS is on the scene, she’s far prettier a girlfriend, but I still play DCS and Sturmovik.
The Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and stick is very good, but if you haven’t already check out the stuff from Virpil and VKB, I have a stick and base from them and a set of rudder pedals. The sticks in particular transform flying in the sim. They are quite hard to get hold of though, and not just since lockdown.
I’ve got the same yoke as you, it’s a real step up from the Logitech stuff I had before, and I’ve been looking at the throttle too for civilian sims.
If you really want to disappear down the rabbit hole never to be seen again, look out for the Brunner stuff, a lot of it is certified for real virtual flight training. They do a set of force feedback rudder pedals as well, I tried them at a trade event, and they felt really good. Expensive though!
Last edited by Tooks; 23rd November 2020 at 13:44.
That's impressive you're running at 4k on that - it buoys my confidence for when I have to build a replacement that I don't have to go too wild. Do you know what fps you're achieving? I have found the same - slow moving scenery = 30fps is more than adequate (as long as its stable). I've also discovered its not as RAM hungry as people thought it might be. This mega machine has 64gb but I think I'd get away with 16gb.
Thanks for the heads up on the hardware too. What rudder pedals do you own? I'm waiting on a Saitek set but concerned they may never arrive.
Do you have any of the Saitek panels, and if so do you use Spad.next? I have found I'm spending as much time programming functions as I am flying at the moment, but I like to have good hardware integration and minimise mouse/keyboard interaction.
I haven’t measured the FPS, but it certainly appears smooth to my eyes, I’m not sure if the fast SSD helps as well, but it certainly helps with the loading times. I’m running 16GB of 3200 RAM and it seems very happy.
I’ve got these rudder pedals;
https://flightsimcontrols.com/produc...edals-mk-iv-2/
No toe brakes on them, but there are software workarounds. I had a set of Thrustmaster rudder pedals, brilliant functionally, but a bit bulky for under my desk!
I’ve got the Saitek multi panel, switch panel and some of the FIPs. I did try SPAD for a while, but didn’t get on with it, but fortunately MSFS2020 supports them natively now.
It also supports RF Cockpit now as well, you can have some nice basic panels/instruments and an HD map if you’ve got an iPad knocking about the place.
X plane is worth a look: https://www.x-plane.com/
They do a mobile version if you want to have a play on a tablet, there's also a demo to try. No idea on resource requirements though.
ANother option, at least to dip your toe in the waterL geo-fs.com, which is "Free - Web Based". It might even run on your chromebook.
I must have had pretty much all the sims available over the years.
Elite is very good,I had the complete home/desktop and built a box to house it in inc an instructor set up.I had fellow simmers and real flyers around to do all sorts on it.A swiss based company @ flyelite.ch
There were a few USA companies that offered something very similar but a heck of a lot cheaper,I had them for that reason only to compare flight models.
Aerowinx is truly superb,and as many sims nowadays used by real pilots.When I bought and used Aerowinx 747 sim on its first release I actually spoke to John Travolta (via email) about the sim and curious why he was using it,at the time he was in the process of buying his Boeing 707 and it helped him understand the aircraft he said.Its advanced quite a long way since its early days and can now be used with FS Sim for the scenery and other scenarios,I still have it but sadly having contacted Hardy will no longer run on todays sortware!.I have the handbook for start up,shut down and any malfuntion youd wish to set when using.Look on you tube its truly mind blowing what Hardy Heinlin made,I think it now simulates close to if not now everything a real 747 aircraft could throw at you.
As I said "you tube" you can look at a multitude of different scenarios from start up shut down etc etc,really worth watching.
Last edited by P9CLY; 23rd November 2020 at 17:00.
The new 2020 MS flight sim is very graphic intensive. You'll need a hefty PC, I'd recommend either an Nvidias new 3080 GPU, or one of AMD's new 6800 XT. Also, consider your screen options - a lot of sim flyers use 3 1080p monitors rather than a single 4k monitor. Or a large ultrawide is probably a decent option too. Gotta get that field of view!
This is good,search on you tube,watch the start up & then his home set up!.
"Test Aerowinx PSX boeing 747-400 cold and dark cockpit"
Last edited by P9CLY; 23rd November 2020 at 17:04.
Whilst I’d love to get my hands on a 3080, they’re like hens teeth, pre-order queues are months long, and they’re pretty expensive albeit better value than the previous high end 2000 series cards.
I run MSFS 2020 at 4K with a 1070 Ti, and it’s incredibly fluid. I think you need a beefy CPU as much as GPU as well, my Ryzen 3700x pairs well with the GPU.
I’m just starting to look into VR, I don’t think MSFS 2020 supports the Occulus VR headsets yet, but when it does I’ll take that over a monitor.
My PC specs (which I won't labour over the details) were ~£1000 with everything and runs MSFS 2020 exceptionally well (Very High settings in 1440p). I haven't ventured to a HOTAS setup yet and still use an Xbox Pad, which is perfectly serviceable.
If you can pause a few months, there's a lot of chatter about MSFS appearing on the new Xbox Series X console (via GamePass) - that would certainly reduce costs (although availability of the new console is limited).
If anyone would like a minor giggle, I helped my son put a video together for his YouTube channel (he's only 9) where we all have a bash at one of the landing challenges:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjUSzvKKbU
Worth noting the download is HUGE (circa 100Gb), which would be laborious on a non-fibre connection!
Last edited by RickChard; 23rd November 2020 at 18:01.
Thanks Hammond, tooks and everyone for your input - RickChard's video looks great. Just the sort of thing I want to do (though I think I would be closer to TJ than his dad!).
P9CLY - I don't think I will be trying aerowinx any time soon - the cold dark cockpit video took any idea I had of a local afternoon jaunt in a Cessna and blew it out of the sky!
It's a bit sobering re the possible cost and even getting hold of the hardware components at the moment. I think I will wait to see how the XBox version pans out in due course and try one of the lower spec suggestions in the meantime (if I can get one to work on my Chromebook).
But please do continue sharing your experiences and ideas because I find it fascinating.
You could always look at the pcpartpicker site in the previous builds section search for flight sim.
It might give you an idea of what others have built for the same purpose
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