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Thread: Cycling Etiquette

  1. #151
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    You can't really say busy when you're the only one on it (there might be loads of people behind you). Also they could be turning right into that other road. If they didn't turn right and they were just lounging in the middle of the road for no reason I would have beeped to let them know to gtfo the way.
    There were loads behind me and that cyclist was continuing straight on - by this point I'd been behind her 2 minutes and we were running the risk of being late for school drop off which was within a very specific time due to bubbles they have at school.



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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Almost as silly as having a big SUV to drive around London
    Way sillier. If that bike had hit the SUV the car would have won.

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  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    There were loads behind me and that cyclist was continuing straight on - by this point I'd been behind her 2 minutes and we were running the risk of being late for school drop off which was within a very specific time due to bubbles they have at school.



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    In that case I would have beeped way before two minutes and overtaken at a decent width. If not possible to overtake due to how far they were out I would have held the horn until they moved.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    There were loads behind me and that cyclist was continuing straight on - by this point I'd been behind her 2 minutes and we were running the risk of being late for school drop off which was within a very specific time due to bubbles they have at school.



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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    In that case I would have beeped way before two minutes and overtaken at a decent width. If not possible to overtake due to how far they were out I would have held the horn until they moved.
    I might well have left sufficient time to allow for the challenges of London traffic...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I might well have left sufficient time to allow for the challenges of London traffic...
    My wife was driving. If you have a wife you'll be aware that timeliness is the exception not the norm

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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    My wife was driving. If you have a wife you'll be aware that timeliness is the exception not the norm

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    I do, and I am, which doesn’t mean a cyclist should ride in the gutter to allow cars to pass at any point to allow for their tardiness does it?

    Had you considered this was this cyclists regular commute and they had already experienced a number of close ‘punishment’ passes and has taken the call that primary is the safest action on that stretch?

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I do, and I am, which doesn’t mean a cyclist should ride in the gutter to allow cars to pass at any point to allow for their tardiness does it?

    Had you considered this was this cyclists regular commute and they had already experienced a number of close ‘punishment’ passes and has taken the call that primary is the safest action on that stretch?
    I'd imagine most unselfish cyclists would be appalled if they thought they were holding up a line of cars who clearly had somewhere to be. There were at least 20 cars behind me. The road was plenty wide enough.

    We weren't late, I was citing wives being punctual to try and cover your assertion that people should leave home early in case a random cyclist decides to behave like an self centred a*hole with more elegance than it deserves.

    The fact is the cyclist was lucky it was my fairly placid wife who was driving. If she'd pulled that stunt in front of white van man or uber man she'd possibly be having a very bad day now.

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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Almost as silly as having a big SUV to drive around London
    I take great issue with this - the roads in the People's Republic of Lewisham are so terrible these days, you need a 4x4 with serious ground clearance to be able to drive on them at all...

    More generally, I subscribe to the theory that an idiot is an idiot, irrespective of their mode of transport. I see a poor or dangerous cyclist, driver or pedestrian and I file them under "prat" and move on. My opinion wouldn't matter a damn to them, so... Shrug.

    It's been a long time since I rode a bike on anything other than a mainly-deserted rural road. About 25 years ago I was knocked off my bike (by a C-reg baby-blue Sierra, in case it was you) and quite badly hurt, and that rather put me off. A few years back I was also hit by a cyclist when crossing Bishopsgate (at a pedestrian crossing, with the green man lit, FAOD). That hurt quite a lot, too.

    I think the main issue with all of this is impatience. It gets to us all, I'm the first to admit that it gets me, but if we can recognise it for what it is, and remember that being 30 seconds later than planned to our destination really doesn't matter at all, maybe the roads will become generally less fraught. Also, fundamentally, I know that whatever I'm driving, a cyclist would come off worse in any collision, so really the onus is on me to make them as safe as possible, irrespective of whether they're in the right.

    Maybe it's just me, but if I were to hit a red-light-running cyclist and KSI them, the fact that it was 100% their fault for running a red light wouldn't ease my conscience a millimetre. So I keep my eyes open, awareness as good as I can, and give cyclists loads of space. "AMAP" as my driving instructor used to put it when talking about giving bikes room when overtaking: As Much As Possible.

    To those who do run red lights etc., I hope your luck holds, and the time and inconvenience saved is worth it.

  9. #159
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    This thread has surprised me, I have always thought the membership of this forum to be intelligent and balanced people.

    This thread is riddled with bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, selfishness and some who are happy to act with a total disregard for others safety.

    There are morons who ride bicycles, and there are morons who drive cars ... but fortunately on the whole most people are sensible balanced human beings.

    To hate a person or to hold a prejudice against a group because they choose to ride a bicycle is not something I can compute.

    But then we live in a society where we have racists, sexists, fascists etc so there is simply no accounting for some fringes of society.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherCain View Post
    I take great issue with this - the roads in the People's Republic of Lewisham are so terrible these days, you need a 4x4 with serious ground clearance to be able to drive on them at all...

    .
    In our case we have a 7 year old son with profound autism as well as other life threatening health issues which means that we need a lot of space as we carry a lot of medication, objects to distract/soothe him as well as the fact that due to sensory processing issues related to his autism he needs a lot of space else it freaks him out.

    I'd much rather be driving around congested London streets in a Tesla Model 3 (not least because I'd actually be able to park the car in town) but sadly the space is needed
    Last edited by ryanb741; Today at 14:17.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    This thread has surprised me, I have always thought the membership of this forum to be intelligent and balanced people.

    This thread is riddled with bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, selfishness and some who are happy to act with a total disregard for others safety.

    There are morons who ride bicycles, and there are morons who drive cars ... but fortunately on the whole most people are sensible balanced human beings.

    To hate a person or to hold a prejudice against a group because they choose to ride a bicycle is not something I can compute.

    But then we live in a society where we have racists, sexists, fascists etc so there is simply no accounting for some fringes of society.
    I agree with you completely. Unfortunately the thread has panned out exactly the same as I thought it would right from the OP. Because it always does.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd imagine most unselfish cyclists would be appalled if they thought they were holding up a line of cars who clearly had somewhere to be. There were at least 20 cars behind me. The road was plenty wide enough.

    We weren't late, I was citing wives being punctual to try and cover your assertion that people should leave home early in case a random cyclist decides to behave like an self centred a*hole with more elegance than it deserves.

    The fact is the cyclist was lucky it was my fairly placid wife who was driving. If she'd pulled that stunt in front of white van man or uber man she'd possibly be having a very bad day now.

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    Ryan, let’s clarify a few things. It was you who raised the time constraint issue not me, I pointed out that more time would allow for the vagaries of London traffic in general, not limited to cyclists opting to take the primary position.

    Referring to cyclists as “ self centred a*hole ” does you a significant disservice.

    As for your hypothetical white van or uber man if they were unable to perform a safe pass they would (also) be self centred a*holes...

    In your view how far from the kerb should this cyclist have been to prevent them from being an inconvenience?
    Last edited by Captain Morgan; Today at 14:32. Reason: Also...

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Ryan, let’s clarify a few things. It was you who raised the time constraint issue not me, I pointed out that more time would allow for the vagaries of London traffic in general, not limited to cyclists opting to take the primary position.

    Referring to cyclists as “ self centred a*hole ” does you a significant disservice.

    As for your hypothetical white van or uber man if they were unable to perform a safe pass they would (also) be self centred a*holes...

    In your view how far from the kerb should this cyclist have been to prevent them from being an inconvenience?
    I wasn't referring to all cyclists as self centred a holes just this one. My theory is she may have done it because we were in a white Range Rover. The road is wider than my pic made it look - it was a phone pic taken from a slightly elevated position. She could have been 50 cm from the pavement and I guess cars could get past her a metre or so alongside (in any case no oncoming traffic so they could have gone slightly into the opposite lane - now they'd have to be fully in the opposite lane with her being right in the middle).

    To put it into context that delay could have affected couriers, people going to work, people late for an interview, people going to a medical appointment etc. It may seem trivial but that all adds up and costs a lot of money in missed deliveries, appointments etc and obviously whilst that won't be the case for one cyclist if one imagines this at scale across the UK the costs are high.

    The actual answer lies somewhere along the path of providing better cycling infrastructure - more dedicated lanes etc.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    In our case we have a 7 year old son with profound autism as well as other life threatening health issues which means that we need a lot of space as we carry a lot of medication, objects to distract/soothe him as well as the fact that due to sensory processing issues related to his autism he needs a lot of space else it freaks him out.

    I'd much rather be driving around congested London streets in a Tesla Model 3 (not least because I'd actually be able to park the car in town) but sadly the space is needed
    You have my sympathies in regard to your son, but to suggest that you need a Range Rover to drive him to school actually made me lol.

  15. #165
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    I'm surprised that Ryan feels the need to justify what he drives around London or any city.

    "Why do you drive a Rangerover?" "Because - I can!"

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I wasn't referring to all cyclists as self centred a holes just this one. My theory is she may have done it because we were in a white Range Rover. The road is wider than my pic made it look - it was a phone pic taken from a slightly elevated position. She could have been 50 cm from the pavement and I guess cars could get past her a metre or so alongside (in any case no oncoming traffic so they could have gone slightly into the opposite lane - now they'd have to be fully in the opposite lane with her being right in the middle).

    To put it into context that delay could have affected couriers, people going to work, people late for an interview, people going to a medical appointment etc. It may seem trivial but that all adds up and costs a lot of money in missed deliveries, appointments etc and obviously whilst that won't be the case for one cyclist if one imagines this at scale across the UK the costs are high.

    The actual answer lies somewhere along the path of providing better cycling infrastructure - more dedicated lanes etc.

    It’s just a theory though right, so equally as valid as mine, in fact if you look she has high vis cycling clothing on, a helmet and luggage rack so you could easily suggest they are a regular cyclist/commuter and has experienced ‘punishment’ passing in that area previously.

    .5m is the minimum recommended distance cyclists should be from the kerb, in fact 0.5-1m is the recommended distance unless riding in the primary position where you ~1/5-2/3 into the lane. The advised gap to overtake is 1.5m.

    You’ve just cut there ability to navigate the road safely and reduced your ability to safely pass them for the sake of 1m, often we are not good at judging distance a 1m could be .75m

    Also consider where folk try and squeeze past a cyclist they are often expecting to be accommodated by on coming traffic making room, and when they don’t it’s the cyclist who generally feels the pinch.

    I’m not sure if you cycle but I’m usually more than .5m out from the kerb (especially if passing parked cars, having a door opened into you will give you a very bad day), glass, drains and potholes can all lead to a bad day, if being overtaken with insufficient space.

    As for all the lost time, delivery’s, interviews and medical procedures, well those who fail to plan plan to fail, no?

  17. #167
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    Cyclists are encouraged by the Department for Transport to ride centrally.


    Drivers should always be fully in the opposite lane when overtaking a cyclist.


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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    In our case we have a 7 year old son with profound autism as well as other life threatening health issues which means that we need a lot of space as we carry a lot of medication, objects to distract/soothe him as well as the fact that due to sensory processing issues related to his autism he needs a lot of space else it freaks him out.

    I'd much rather be driving around congested London streets in a Tesla Model 3 (not least because I'd actually be able to park the car in town) but sadly the space is needed
    FAOD Ryan, I wasn't having a go at you for driving an SUV. Considering that I drive an XC90 that would've been a touch hypocritical! I merely meant to poke fun at the parlous state of Lewisham's roads... I think the whole point of the thread is that, as long as it's legal, we can drive or pedal whatever we bloody well like on the road - it is (so far) a fere country after all - but we should all try to do so with consideration for others top-of-mind.

  19. #169
    Here are a couple of close passes inflicted on me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kS7vRT71Ik&t=11s

    The wide angle video always make them look a bit further away - but trust me these were terrible.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    Here are a couple of close passes inflicted on me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kS7vRT71Ik&t=11s

    The wide angle video always make them look a bit further away - but trust me these were terrible.
    Before I opened the link I had a little bet with myself.... BMW or Range Rover.
    Suprise,surprise!

    They were pretty squeaky!

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    Here are a couple of close passes inflicted on me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kS7vRT71Ik&t=11s

    The wide angle video always make them look a bit further away - but trust me these were terrible.
    This sucks, people don’t realise how often this happens...

    I just got back from a bike ride. Today, I got overtaken by 3 large trucks (not quite lorry size but large) in a row, overtaking me properly - went to the other lane completely, it was the right thing to do. Right after them, and idiot in small Toyota (might have been a Hyundai) trying to overtake me, but clearly not having enough time to safely do so due to oncoming traffic. This was basically stupid and dangerous, but they decided to go for it anyway and cut me off. Twat.

    Now, where’s that drivers shaming thread?


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  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    Here are a couple of close passes inflicted on me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kS7vRT71Ik&t=11s

    The wide angle video always make them look a bit further away - but trust me these were terrible.
    Jeez those to BMW's were scarily close. That's terrible - imagine a gust of wind had blown either you towards them or them towards you. That is for sure bad driving

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    Here are a couple of close passes inflicted on me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kS7vRT71Ik&t=11s

    The wide angle video always make them look a bit further away - but trust me these were terrible.
    Sadly a all to common occurrence, it doesn’t take too many of them to either get folk of their bikes or encourage them to cycle out, which unfortunately impacts drivers who do pass considerately.

  24. #174
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    What about failing to plan for the red mist you generate? For 50 drivers who will be inconvenienced but will swallow it you will find at least one who'll try his luck at passing the cyclist regardless. This will have consequences for both, but chances are that the most painful ones will be for the cyclist.

    I used to sail a lot. Sailboats have the right of way on all motorised traffic in open water except for a trawling ship. We crossed the Channel many times. Guess how many times we even considered exercising our right of way? That's right, none.

    The saying is "Might is right". It keeps sailors alive.

    I am genuinely astonished that some people are so self conscious they will jeopardise their own safety this way. When I cycle, if I have a car behind me that cannot pass, I move out of the way at the first opportunity. The resulting delay is literally seconds, we usually wave to each other and all is fine, I stay healthy, the driver doesn't see his blood pressure rise like Saturn V and all is well. I do not feel humiliated by having had to stop, nor do I believe I p*ssed my legitimate rights against the wall.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post

    Cyclists are encouraged by the Department for Transport to ride centrally.
    Only on narrow roads
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
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