Cycling Etiquette

[ryanb741]

Evening all. Where I live there are loads of recreational cyclists and the area seems to be well known for cycling enthusiasts. I am not knocking cycling as it has health benefits etc. Far from it. That being said I would welcome some thoughts on the following;

1. What is the etiquette for a cyclist when overtaking a car (i.e. in traffic, at lights etc etc). Do they go to the left or the right? I frequently encounter them going left AND right to the extent that it becomes a bit of an obstacle course to avoid hitting them as they will be either side of the car and then when the (for example) lights go green and the car accelerates again you have to be super careful about what cyclists are on each side of the car

2. Cyclists riding parallel to each other on single carriageways. Particularly the road from Kingston towards Hampton Court Palace. You will get cyclists riding alongside each other meaning to overtake them (it is a 40 MPH road) you have to enter the opposite lane. What's the ruling on this?

3. Traffic lights. Cyclists I see on the road typically stop at a red light but I have noticed when at a red if the road is clear some will go through it (you can't do this in a car). What's the ruling on this? I assume the same rules that apply to a motor vehicle apply to a cycle?

4. Cycles on bottleneck roads. For example there are a couple of railway bridges near me which are single lane and use traffic lights to allow alternative directions of traffic flow. I've noticed cyclists will typically go to the front of the queue when the lights are red, then when they go green will pull out in front of the cars and then cycle extremely slowly over the bridge (it is a steep up and down) and this slow speed impacts all the cars behind and means fewer can get across before the lights go red again. Immediately adjacent to this single lane across the bridge is a pedestrian footpath. Would it be better for the cyclist to walk their bike across the bridge on the footpath and re-enter the road on the other side of the bridge in order to avoid creating traffic congestion behind them?

Would welcome feedback on what the actual rules are please

[Kingstepper]

If not cyclist bashing why are you even asking number 3, surely everyone knows the answer?

[Onelasttime]

If not cyclist bashing why are you even asking number 3, surely everyone knows the answer?

I'd always assumed the sign with the big white arrow on blue background meant 'One way', but since cycling more during lockdown I learned that round our way we have a cycle scheme in place that allows cyclists to go the wrong way down these streets. Seems bloody dangerous to me but it is an actual bylaw

[Alansmithee]

Would welcome feedback on what the actual rules are please

Or just read the Highway code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...lists-59-to-82

[monogroover]

Or just read the Highway code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...lists-59-to-82

Thanks, I hadn't read those.

I wonder how many of us with bikes manufactured in the last 35 years have amber pedal reflectors? I don't.

[GraniteQuarry]

Not sure of the rules but the penalties should be:

1. Birching
2. Birching
3. Death by Bum-Bum
4. Birching

[ach5]

cyclist bashing thread dressed up as ‘trying to understand’ and / or ‘concern’.

I used to be a very serious and committed road cyclist (full skinny Lycra type) doing a couple of hundred of hilly moorland road miles per week

I never went through a red light and was ultra cautious and sensible.

I gave up after the third hit and run (resulting in broken wrist). Every ride felt like a war; them vs us. Constantly getting ‘buzzed’ by cars closely overtaking, honked at for just legally being there, spat at / random objects thrown at me through car windows when totally minding my own business. I desperately miss the freedom but I don’t miss the constant fear and worry.

Car drivers are, for the most part, very entitled and bullying on the road. Normal people become monsters from the safety of their metal box and behave in a way they wouldn’t face to face, person to person.

The story here isn’t how cyclists are annoying, it’s how selfish car drivers are.

[Mr Curta]

Not sure of the rules but the penalties should be:

1. Birching
2. Birching
3. Death by Bum-Bum
4. Birching

I always thought that it was Death by Magumba

[PickleB]

Or just read the Highway code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...lists-59-to-82

Add rules 159 to 203 to that...www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203.

Rule 163 includes an illustration that the OP may find illuminating.

[adrianw]

a scary thing I keep encountering more and more, is cars overtaking cyclists when I am coming the opposite direction,

[RLE]

a scary thing I keep encountering more and more, is cars overtaking cyclists when I am coming the opposite direction,

This does seem to be a more common occurrence these days. Part of the issue stems from the driver behind the cyclist worrying about the time they are taking to overtake and holding up the cars behind them. This often leads to taking risks on bends, brows of hills etc. Even on straight wide roads the perception of some drivers overtaking cyclists is that you as the oncoming vehicle needs to swerve to the curb or drastically reduce your speed in order for them to complete the manoeuvre. Personally don’t have a massive issue with it as long as I have the warning and/ or the room to make the adjustments but others aren’t quite as forgiving and are happy to play chicken.

Honestly think there is a general lack of tolerance on the roads nowadays. Minor indiscretions are met with aggression. Every journey is an event irrespective of how short.

Ridden bikes for twenty years. Never had any issues with cars berating my riding although I’m sure some drivers will have vocalised their dissatisfaction in the cabin. I try to avoid holding anyone up. If I do a friendly wave acknowledging their patience usually goes a long way. I stop at red lights but have been known to slightly ride over the solid line somewhat in order to give me a second or two more to pull away safely. Ironically this usually coincides with cars that are sat in the ASL boxes designed specifically to facilitate bikes at traffic signals. Unfortunately I deem close passes to be a given on every ride. It shouldn’t be the case but accept it is a hazard of the hobby and there’s genuinely little point in confronting drivers on the road. The ones who are willing to accept any wrongdoing will be few and far between.

I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a guy who misjudged my speed on a roundabout as he approached his exit leaving a dual carriageway thinking he “could beat me” The main thing that sticks with me that day was the genuine look of terror on the drivers face when he got out of the car to check on me. My first reaction was to wrap the bike round his head but it became a strange situation as we talked. Almost like he was the injured party and I was the one who ended up comforting him. It struck me then that despite all the flack that cyclists get it's clear no one goes out to hurt or put them at risk but it ultimately comes back to our tolerance levels for others on the road.

I’m speaking about the wider public here, but we all feel an obligation to keep our families safe when driving and we never intentionally put them at risk. If we adopted that same attitude and mindset and accepted the obligation to protect others I’m sure the roads would be a safer place.

[trident-7]

a scary thing I keep encountering more and more, is cars overtaking cyclists when I am coming the opposite direction,

A disproportionate number of which are Audis in my experience. The drivers of which are often the ones that have to get past at all costs in order to save approximately 10 seconds on their journey time.

[Franky Four Fingers]

There’s good and bad in all types of motorist, I guess if you’re a dick behind the wheel you’ll likely be a dick in the saddle.

[SydR]

1. Filtering left or right is dependent on a number of factors; road width, layout, junction configuration etc etc. Both are equally valid and allowed.
2. The highway code allows for cycling two abreast and, in some situations, it can be helpful. Say for example an group ride. It is easier and shorter to pass 10 cyclists two abreast than 10 in single file. If you were passing a car you would have to enter the opposite lane. Why should passing a bike be different?
3. Traffic lights apply equally to cyclists, the only difference being the use of the advance stop line if one is there. Some cyclists are simply idiots.
4. Cyclists have equal (arguably greater*) right to use the road as motor vehicles)

* cyclists have a right to use the road. Drivers are only permitted to do so under licence terms.

[j0hnbarker]

Some cyclists ride sensibly, some are idiots.

Some drivers drive sensibly, some are idiots.

Where I live, I see a mixture of all four. No side is blameless.

[mmgg1988]

Some cyclists ride sensibly, some are idiots.

Some drivers drive sensibly, some are idiots.

Where I live, I see a mixture of all four. No side is blameless.

This for me too. To try and help the OP and other London dwellers my observations are thus:

Idiot cyclists-Risk factors include an Uber Eats/Deliveroo rucksack, tourists on Santender bikes and MAMILS on the morning commute (especially the one who dared to shout at me for crossing a zebra crossing slowing him down...)

Idiot drivers-Risk factors include white SUV's, Merc G wagen in all colours, mopeds (especially with Just Eat/Uber Eats/Deliveroo box) Toyota Prius' (which are inevitably Uber drivers), all Addison Lee/black Galaxies and anything with a UAE plate

Obviously not a 100% success rate but the above generally helps me whether a pedestrian, cyclist or driver....

(for anyone with a sensitive disposition, the above are at least partially tongue in cheek...)

[bry nylon]

Been a while since we have had a cyclist thread, apart from the long running appreciation one..
Reminds me that we must be about due for a Rolex vs GS thread - not seen one of them for ages!

Point 3 of Ryan's list - not excusing it or whataboutery, but I see an awful lot of cars going through red lights here in London.. Seems like its allowed if it's just turned red..
It really bugs me though when I see cyclists going through reds or across Zebra's when people are crossing, as others said above - it just makes it worse for those of us who do follow and obey the rules..

[Paradiddle]

Some cyclists ride sensibly, some are idiots.

Some drivers drive sensibly, some are idiots.

Where I live, I see a mixture of all four. No side is blameless.

This sums it up for me. The majority are not idiots but there are still lots on both sides.

I also find that most of the idiots congregate in London. I didn't cycle for many years in London as I hear so much about the horror stories from both sides. I also know someone who was crushed by an HGV that veered into a cycle lane. As a road user everyone needs to be responsible and understand the risks. Every time I drive in London I also see a marked difference in how people drive, with a notable deterioration in the East End where I live.

However having cycled here in the last few years, I find that most drivers are fairly aware and polite. I am much more intimidated by other cyclists and pedestrians who are inconsiderate or unaware of the rules. My first time riding into the office, I bumped into a man who was high as a kite and walking down the cycle lane at 7am. I have shouted at pedestrians who don't look before crossing the road. Nevermind a cyclist, what about a quiet hybrid car coming their way?

[Franky Four Fingers]

Yeh but what about helmets and insurance

[ach5]

PS I’ve been party to dozens of ‘cyclist’ threads on various forums and they always go the same way.

I get very angry when I see a cyclist do something stupid as I feel it lets us all (other cyclists) down.

But you can’t legislate for idiots.

Most ‘proper’ cyclists ie the Lycra brigade, of which I was part, have *very* good road manners. But *anyone* can ride a bike; including children, and just random people going from A to B and I would wager in most cases, the ‘idiots’ are the latter category. But the hate gets heaped on all cyclists.

This is a pointless thread, honestly: just like on the roads, it will end up a stand off.

[j0hnbarker]

PS I’ve been party to dozens of ‘cyclist’ threads on various forums and they always go the same way.

I get very angry when I see a cyclist do something stupid as I feel it lets us all (other cyclists) down.

But you can’t legislate for idiots.

Most ‘proper’ cyclists ie the Lycra brigade, of which I was part, have *very* good road manners. But *anyone* can ride a bike; including children, and just random people going from A to B and I would wager in most cases, the ‘idiots’ are the latter category. But the hate gets heaped on all cyclists.

This is a pointless thread, honestly: just like on the roads, it will end up a stand off.

I live in a village in the Peak District and we have the Mrs Joneses who cycle to the local WI meetings, plus the Lycra peloton brigade you refer to.

Without doubt the idiots belong to the latter.

A bit like with motorcyclists (of which I am one), the larger the group, the more boorish the behaviour.

You rarely get this unique group mentality with drivers, although that doesn’t mean they are blameless.

[ach5]

I live in a village in the Peak District and we have the Mrs Joneses who cycle to the local WI meetings, plus the Lycra peloton brigade you refer to.

Without doubt the idiots belong to the latter.

A bit like with motorcyclists (of which I am one), the larger the group, the more boorish the behaviour.

You rarely get this unique group mentality with drivers, although that doesn’t mean they are blameless.

Perhaps true. I was a lone wolf and never once cycled with anyone else over the years.

[Montello]

Cycling in London isn’t like the rest of the country.

London cyclist seem a crazy bunch.

Just ride sensible.

Don’t go through red lights. That just fuels the haters.

[johnnyguitar]

Well, that escalated quickly and as I imagine most of the above is a lot of cobblers, and I am watching the Cannonball Run and it’s the big fight scene at the end, I’ve not read most of it.

Yeh but what about helmets and insurance

I’ve got both, cheers.
The consequences of driving a motor vehicle without insurance are far greater, yet this seems to be something that a lot of people think is alright. Can’t help thinking that cyclists out to have at least some sort of third party cover.

I live in a village in the Peak District and we have the Mrs Joneses who cycle to the local WI meetings, plus the Lycra peloton brigade you refer to.

Without doubt the idiots belong to the latter.

A bit like with motorcyclists (of which I am one), the larger the group, the more boorish the behaviour.

You rarely get this unique group mentality with drivers, although that doesn’t mean they are blameless.

What a lot of toss.
I ride with a group, regularly (apart from in this current situation) and have never witnessed to any boorish behaviour from my group on any of the rides I’ve been on. The attitude towards motorists who are so impatient that they can’t sit and wait for a safe opportunity to pass on a country lane, on a Sunday morning, however are the ones who put both cyclists and other road users at risk.
If you’re not sure if you’ve got room to go past a bike, 2 bikes, 10 bikes or 5x2 bikes, then you probably haven’t. If you don’t think you’ve got enough space to pass a car, then you probably haven’t got enough space to safely pass a bike. You can see why some cyclists become militant, because I feel like I’m going to drag the next person who gives me a punishment pass out of their window by the collar(and that does not reflect my usual personality standard).

And I do generally stick to the rules. I passed queued traffic where I can be seen and I stop at 98% of red traffic lights. Sometimes - and this is REALLY naughty - at 8 am on a Sunday, if I get to a light controlled roundabout and I can see in all directions that it’s safe to me to go, then I’ll go irrespective of the colour of the light. I know, right....?

[Onelasttime]

I will say that for every 1 example of idiocy I see from a cyclist, I can point to about 10 from car/motorbike/van drivers.

I drive more than cycle and try to give equal consideration to both, but no matter how stupid you think the behaviour is from any road user, it will never warrant responding in kind.

[barreti]

My god, I hope I never have to share the same bit of road as you.
You seem to genuinely expect cyclists to get out of your way.

Get off their bike and push it on the path? That delay probably cost you 10 seconds on your journey.
Would you whine like this if this was about horses, or tractors, or an old steam engine?
The road is for everyone. Get a bloody grip.

[100thmonkey]

If your car was as thin as my bike and you were the engine then what would you do?

I go through red lights sometimes when safe to do so because then I’m clear of motorists and wont hold them up later and because I can.

I filter left and right depending where I see the safest pathway.

I’m never comfortable knowing I’m holding up traffic so avoid riding 2 a breast but am also aware that 40mph isn’t the compulsory speed its the maximum.

Personally I want to ride my bike without upsetting anyone and nor do I want people getting upset with me. Everytime you see a bike thats a person getting fit, reducing the carbon footprint, so cut them a little slack but we have to accept that there will be idiots on bike like there are on motorbikes and in cars and trucks.

[village]

.....
Personally I want to ride my bike without upsetting anyone and nor do I want people getting upset with me. Everytime you see a bike thats a person getting fit, reducing the carbon footprint, so cut them a little slack but we have to accept that there will be idiots on bike like there are on motorbikes and in cars and trucks.

This sums it up.

Its a shame you said this previous...

I go through red lights sometimes when safe to do so because then I’m clear of motorists and wont hold them up later and because I can..

Arguably it’s never safe to go through a red light. If a car driver said that you’d call them unsafe and I don’t think it should be any different for a cyclist.
As the Highway Code for cyclists states “You must obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals”

It wasn’t that long ago that I nearly took out a cyclist who rode through a red light.

[Montello]

I go through red lights sometimes when safe to do so because then I’m clear of motorists and wont hold them up later and because I can.

.

Please don’t do this, I can see the logic but it just gives fuel to the haters. It just looks like you are selfish and have no regard for the law.

[Captain Morgan]

Yeh but what about helmets and insurance

They’re normally in their metal boxes trying to ‘make progress’ and I hope most insurance issues are caught via apnr

Edit: minus 10 points for failing to mention ’road tax’

[Harry Smith]

My 7 rules of cycling are:
1 Don't get killed
2 Don't get injured
3 Don't injure anyone else
4 I will always use a footpath or cycle path if possible and I will stop or ride on the grass to avoid pedestrian conflict.
5 Red lights are optional to a cyclist, if there is an empty road I will cross, soooo carefully.
6 Most vehicles are bigger than me, I will lose any dispute.
7 If in doubt refer to 1,2 and 3.

[cbh]

Btw. The road between Hampton Court and Kingston is now 30mph and has been for about 6 months.

[BillyCasper]

Btw. The road between Hampton Court and Kingston is now 30mph and has been for about 6 months.

It’s 20 mph in parts.


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[100thmonkey]

Btw. The road between Hampton Court and Kingston is now 30mph and has been for about 6 months.

And as a cyclist I do not understand the mentality of those who do none stop laps of it when they could get out to far quieter local roads. I can only assume they either dont have puncture repair kits or are on a ASBO tag

[jwillans]

I treat cyclist with the respect that I would expect to be shown, and when passing always exaggerate the amount of space needed to be safe. There is no excuse for creating a dangerous situation irrespective of whether driving or cycling. That said, I do get frustrated when others' feel the need to control or police what I do. Cycling in pairs to prevent passing, because the cyclists deem it unsafe, is an example of this. In such situations, I have a word with myself and drop back!

[SydR]

I treat cyclist with the respect that I would expect to be shown, and when passing always exaggerate the amount of space needed to be safe. There is no excuse for creating a dangerous situation irrespective of whether driving or cycling. That said, I do get frustrated when others' feel the need to control or police what I do. Cycling in pairs to prevent passing, because the cyclists deem it unsafe, is an example of this. In such situations, I have a word with myself and drop back!

Cycling two abreast does not prevent passing; this can still be carried out by moving to the opposite lane if it is safe to do so.

What it does do is prevent in lane passing where, even on the widest of roads, there is seldom room to do so whilst still giving adequate safe space.

They are therefore not policing what you do, rather they are keeping themselves safe.

I’m glad to see you pull back in such situations. I am sure this is always appreciated by those in front.

[jwillans]

Cycling two abreast does not prevent passing; this can still be carried out by moving to the opposite lane if it is safe to do so.

What it does do is prevent in lane passing where, even on the widest of roads, there is seldom room to do so whilst still giving adequate safe space.

They are therefore not policing what you do, rather they are keeping themselves safe.

I’m glad to see you pull back in such situations. I am sure this is always appreciated by those in front.

They are absolutely policing what motorists do. I'm old enough to judge when a manoeuvre is safe, I don't need to be instructed on this.

[ryanb741]

Whoa there are a couple of people who got off on the wrong foot here and treating this as an anti cyclist rant. Nothing I have said is anything remotely rant-like and as it happens I'm considering cycling again for fitness (although bl**dy hell have 'proper' bikes shot up in price since I last did it around 30 years ago!).

I was genuinely asking questions. I couldn't care less if a cyclist goes through a red light as I don't need to worry about them if they are gone.

If I'm being honest the only thing of the points I listed that irks me a bit is the cyclists riding either side of the car as it just means I need to be extra vigilant for their safety. I say this in the context of being a London driver and needing to be super aware of black cabs driving like morons or uber drivers making random maneuvers and double decker buses everywhere.

Add in cyclists immediately to my left and right (and the car has blind spots) and the chance of a fatal accident is high which is why I thought there should be some rule around cyclists overtaking motor vehicles and what side they should pass (so a motorist knows which mirror to pay particular attention to)

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[Alansmithee]

If I'm being honest the only thing of the points I listed that irks me a bit is the cyclists riding either side of the car as it just means I need to be extra vigilant for their safety. I say this in the context of being a London driver

I thought it was because you drove a giant SUV with terrible visibility? ��

[ryanb741]

I thought it was because you drove a giant SUV with terrible visibility? ��

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Seems like you are trying to pick a fight? That is what the Bear Pit is for. For what it is worth the car doesnt have terrible visibility and in any case has sensors everywhere but with the number of distractions already on such roads you can see how the risk increases for cyclists specifically on this one point of which side they overtake a vehicle. Particularly as there are loads of cyclists. Imagine instead of a car it is a bus or a lorry for example that they are overtaking.

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[Alansmithee]

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Seems like you are trying to pick a fight? That is what the Bear Pit is for.

I think we are allowed jokes in the George and Dragon.

[ryanb741]

I think we are allowed jokes in the George and Dragon.

Ah ok my bad I didn't realise it was a joke. Words are easily misinterpreted. As we were then :)

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[Mr Curta]

Two wheels or four, don't be a dick.

Everybody using the roads should watch the Ogmios School of Zen Motoring videos.

[Mr G Imp]

Driving etiquette when faced with cyclists is to give them plenty of room to get on as you could easily badly injure or even kill them, they are making the roads in the city’s less congested..even the idiot ones.

Don’t pass too close as it’s intimidating. Keep an eye out as they could come from any direction.

The unwritten rule is that road regs don’t apply to cyclists so try and respect this.

Cyclists have been on the roads well before cars started sharing the space with them.

[PawG]

I feel like OPs concerns have been answered enough, so just my 2 pence worth here.

Driving in England is pretty good comparing to other European countries. However, cycling in England is just about as dangerous as it gets. I ride all year around with very bright lights 95% of the time (5% is when the battery runs out), so I am visible. Few years ago, I have started cycling in the middle of the lane whenever I’m out of town. I only let the drivers pass when it’s safe to do so. Otherwise, I get a little elbow/wing mirror action or almost getting knocked over. If I cycle close to the side of the road, good 80% of drivers will take a chance and try to overtake me even if there’s a car oncoming on the opposite lane. It’s scary. The roads are not perfect, and if there’s a pot hole I need to avoid and swerve a bit into the road - I can get hit easily.
There’s just as many idiot cyclists, but they are more a danger to themselves, so I tend not to bother when I’m stopped at a red light and some idiot almost knocks me over because he can go on the red light when everyone else is stopped. This happens more in the city but still, I don’t get why would you feel the need to go on the red. Some good excuses mentioned above but yeah, nah.

Just be sensible people, we’re all in this together and nobody wants to get killed/injured.


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[Dm1672]

As a cyclist both on and off the road for years as well as a motorist it does wind me up when cyclists are determined to ride 2 abreast on roads and not filter in to single file when a car is behind them, fortunately that doesn't happen much up this way as most are sensible.

All towns around here(Scottish Borders)are 20mph limits and will be for next 18 months as a trial and more than likely that will stay as it's encouraging more cycling which is great.

Just remember the new law when passing a cyclist is now 1.5m,quite a few areas have run schemes bit now fines are in place if caught.



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[SydR]

As a cyclist both on and off the road for years as well as a motorist it does wind me up when cyclists are determined to ride 2 abreast on roads and not filter in to single file when a car is behind them, fortunately that doesn't happen much up this way as most are sensible.

Can you clarify if you are talking about two cyclists or a group?

And for clarity the distance is a minimum of 1.5 metres

[Dm1672]

Can you clarify if you are talking about two cyclists or a group?

And for clarity the distance is a minimum of 1.5 metres

I'm talking about 2 cyclists,I didn't say it was illegal it's just etiquette on the country roads here if your 2 abreast then filter in behind your buddy to let the car pass

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[SydR]

I'm talking about 2 cyclists,I didn't say it was illegal it's just etiquette on the country roads here if your 2 abreast then filter in behind your buddy to let the car pass

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In the still for the vimeo video it would not be safe to do as you suggest. The road has a double white line prohibiting the vehicle to cross to the other side of the road and there is insufficient room to allow in-lane passing whilst giving the required safe distance.

[Steve27752]

In the still for the vimeo video it would not be safe to do as you suggest. The road has a double white line prohibiting the vehicle to cross to the other side of the road and there is insufficient room to allow in-lane passing whilst giving the required safe distance.

"You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph or less." ... Under any other circumstances, road users aren't permitted to cross double white lines.