Reply With QuoteI’ll be buying a diesel just before the deadline, should see me through to 2040.
I just cannot see how the infrastructure required for this will be in place by 2030, and more to the point - given the economic hell that we are in just now - where will the money come from to create it. Must be vast sums involved.
What does this mean for used prices of combustion engined cars. Will they be effectively worthless or will a scrappage scheme be launched I wonder. https://apple.news/AOoUKp4SUQvWPhQ3xlnnuaw
I’ll be buying a diesel just before the deadline, should see me through to 2040.
Hybrids are still allowed until 2035 though, and most new models already come with a hybrid option.
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Is this not just an election thing next time one comes around? As above, I can’t see how the infrastructure will be available to support this.
It all sounds like hot air to me, lots of fluffy rhetoric but nothing if any substance.
The BBC aren’t helping either, they’ve just compared a £27,000 Nissan Leaf with an £8,000 Dacia Sandero to prove that electric is 2 1/2 times the price of petrol!
Yes, electric is more expensive but FFS, compare like for like!
Last edited by Dave+63; 18th November 2020 at 08:57.
If it is I’d say it’s a vote loser. I’m sure the electorate might think that money could be better spent trying to get post-corvid UK back on its feet. Let’s face it a decade is the minimum amount of time we will need to recover imho.Originally Posted by Stuno1
Zero chance we'll have the infrastructure for this by 2030. We don;t have the electiricty generation capacity for it for a start. wind won't cover it and power stations take a long time to build.
Hydrogen is far more promising as a long term solution so I find this obsession with battery tech a bit premature.
I have to say though, if they do insist on this I won't be too disappointed at the 2/3 nuclear power stations required - we should have built them 10-15 years ago.
I’m inclined to agree. It’s an admirable goal, and one day we’ll be there, but I can’t see it at 2030 without Elon Musk like commitment & fanaticism from the government, which will never happen. The political will simply isn’t there, moving to electric cars is driven by eco concerns and politics don’t really care about eco (unless they see it as a way to win votes).
The electricity generation industry doesn’t seem to share your view.
Where will the vastly greater power generation capacity needed to produce hydrogen come from if your previous point is true?
Boris...trying to divert the conversation away from current woes, unfortunately he’s chosen the subject of debate badly and the perception is that its a ‘Carrie’ which makes him look even more of a cuckold...
A very devicive topic that raises so many questions with very variable answers...or simply no current answer / solution...
Will it mean fossil fueled cars become worthless ?....
Wheres the extra electricity and infrastructure coming from ?
Will more people get run over ?
How does government repace 35 Billion fuel duty (think we know that one).
How do power stations generate electricity?
Is it too late for me to go and live on a remote Scottish island ?
Last edited by TKH; 18th November 2020 at 12:52.
Interesting article
https://www.constructionenquirer.com...uclear-plants/
There is nothing to say when we have to stop using petrol/diesel cars, you just cant sell new ones after 2030.
Thing is what about the whole fuel stations and the supply chain involved in that - its going to take a massive hit and probably obsolete in a few decades.
This is what will probably decide when petrol and diesel engines go out of use. If it's difficult or expensive to get dinosaur juice, then the vehicles that use it will quickly fall out of favour.
This could all be an exercise to justify whacking a load of new taxes on cars, of course. I haven't read the article, but does the ban extend to commercial vehicles and lorries?
Amongst the myriad of potential pitfalls already mentioned we have a government that has spectacularly failed in everything it's so far touched, and an automotive industry with a supply chain that relies heavily on JIT, something that we're currently in the process of destroying, and that's before we add the financial burden of HS2.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
all part of the great reset / Agenda 21/30 'Build Back Better' baloney
you will own nothing and be happy
Also announced investment and funding for several carbon capture and storage projects.
This is good news for me as I’m working on one of them!
They are dreaming, have many people per hour does a large filling station serve? can you really see hundreds of people waiting around for their cars to charge, or is every parking bay at a shopping centre going to have a charger. they will invent a new sickness around charge anxiety
Agreed, these are two important points. People will run their existing internal combustion engine cars until it reaches the point where they have to plan journeys around the few remaining petrol stations (the opposite of the situation now with electric cars and charging points). To reach this state would take quite a few years after 2030.
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Totally agree, hydrogen power is the way forward. We have a communal car park for 14 cars how do we get the cars charged?
Should be 2040 before the change so the tech and infrastructure can sort itself out.
Before you even get that far, the cost of the cars has to VASTLY reduce.
And I can retire!
The proposed date is irrelevant really, if we can’t sort Brexit and an adequate lockdown we’ve no chance of doing this in 10 years
Don't think there's any need for concern. Over the next 10 years the infrastructure and technology around electric cars will improve to the point where they become desirable. They're only suggesting banning the manafacture of petrol and diesel cars, not their use. So in the short term, it might be that their value alctually goes up and those of us hooked on the old technology should be able to get another 10-15 years out of it anyway, by which time the electric thing should be fully sorted.
I visited Lisbon last year where the majority of Uber and taxis are electric.
Striking up a conversation with the drivers, I learnt that most people don't own their own home, they rent. And they rent in apartment blocks.
"How do you charge your e-car?" was the first question I asked.
I was informed that there are thousands of charging points all over the city, just like parking meters, all installed by the government and all free, so nobody needed to park and charge on their driveway.
"Interesting", I thought.
As mentioned, it's all about the infrastructure, and wanting to harness more wind power may not cut it.
I'll be buying several.
They're going to be a great investment!
How many petrol stations of forty years ago are still around today anyway? Our village had one, one down the road three miles away. Both built over by housing. If you need petrol around here you (generally) hunt out the nearest big supermarket. It's another employment opportunity lost and the landowners will just build more houses.
Remember the switch from leaded petrol to unleaded?
Cast your mind back ten years and remember where we were with electric vehicles then. Now go forward ten years. I don't find 'no new petrol or diesel cars' so hard to imagine now. My nearby big Tesco has free car charging now (in the last few months) and while this won't go on forever, the rollout of charging points and supporting infrastructure in the form of generating and transmission capacity will grow and now has a clear steer to grow.
It'll happen, it's a new industry, new opportunity, we'll change. I know this is more a discussion on timetable rather than direction but there can't be anyone who thinks we can keep using petrol and diesel forever?
I tend to agree with this, this will stimulate industry to act, however, I think the days of cheap charge for EV as enjoyed today will evaporate.
As for the charging, has anyone developed induction charging? Just park over a charger and it charges, the infrastructure change would be enormous, but it would be a great solution to the limitation of wires and cables.
Cheers..
Jase
At the risk of breaking G&D guidelines- I have to agree with you there.Amongst the myriad of potential pitfalls already mentioned we have a government that has spectacularly failed in everything it's so far touched, and an automotive industry with a supply chain that relies heavily on JIT, something that we're currently in the process of destroying, and that's before we add the financial burden of HS2.
Both static and dynamic. Dynamic being where there are coils embedded into the road surface and each coil gives a little bit of charge as the vehicle passes over. A bit like a wireless scalectrix really.
The costs would be huge but embedded into motorways and A roads would eliminate the need for large batteries too, you’d just need enough capacity for urban driving.
I really don’t understand you Adrian. I have huge respect for your knowledge of motor racing and therefore cars in general but you really seem to be blind to the benefits of EVs.
In five and a half years of driving an EV, I haven’t once missed using a petrol station. I’ve had to charge away from home on very few occasions and only once had a prob at a rapid charger. A tesla was charging and on 50% so I moved on to the next one ten miles away.
Charging an EV is not and never will be, anything like using a filling station. People won’t need to use a charge station to anywhere near the extent that they use filling stations.
Thats the way to go I guess, the problem i can see with that is future proofing the system, as tech advances so fast in this field, the physical disruption and cost will be enormous and a year later a newer better faster system emerges.
Cheers..
Jase
Exactly, isn’t the point that you can charge your EV at home which obviously you can’t do with your IC vehicle. You should only ever need to use a public charge point when your entire journey is greater than your EV range?
For me a range of 250 miles will more than cover me from leaving the house to returning for 99% of my mileage.
Ross
This assumes that your charge point is accessible at home, a driveway for example, in terraced streets its going to be more tricky.
Cheers..
Jase
Rather than under the road, how about over it
Rush hour would look like this
https://images.app.goo.gl/g13d2GX22MmPXce79
I really think batteries are a dead end, there wont be the lithium, there wont be the infrastructure, there certainly wont be the power generation, 'green' energy production isn't limitless and certainly isn't completely harmless to the planet. I have no idea what the answer is, but i'm pretty sure long term it is not battery electric cars
When I leased my car two years ago I thought that the future would be quite clear by the time my 3 year deal was up and I’d know what the best option going forward would be.
I’ve got less than 12 months left and no idea if I’ll be buying or leasing next time. Whether it will be diesel, petrol, electric or gnats pee.
Out of interest, would anyone here BUY a current generation electric vehicle, especially with a view to keeping it long term?
In the words of the timeshare salesman “ trust me” it’s all smoke and mirrors
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Yes, in a heartbeat.
An EV that’s suitable for my needs today will still be suitable for my needs in a few years when newer, better cars are available. Assuming of course, that my needs don’t change in the interim.
I had my first van for five years and would still have it now if it hadn’t been written off by someone running into the back of me. I replaced it with the same model which is only eight months newer. It fits my needs and the extra cost of a newer, larger battery model, just didn’t stack up.
Looks great but that’s not related to electric cars.
Nope not at the moment. I’ll buy a new petrol car just before they are banned.
Had a BMW 330e and it was a bit if a waste of time. Neighbour has Jag all electric but £70k!! His sister has all electric Corsa, nearly £30k!!
Unless costs come down massively and battery technology improves I wont be getting one
Don’t see how many living in towns/cities w/o a driveway will manage w/o a charge station.
Those buying them now are those with access at home. Once others start buying things will get a lot worse.
I don’t disagree and the infrastructure will need constant improvement. It’s changed radically in the five years I’ve been driving.
My daughter bought an EV before she moved in to her house and managed to keep her car charged without access to a home charger. It’s doable today and as uptake of EVs continues, so will infrastructure improvements.
There are many many possible solutions for charging as electricity is almost everywhere and at worst, you can charge off any three pin socket.
Where’s all the electricity going to come from to charge all these cars??
It's not the infrastructure but it's the cost.
EV unless they come down in price won't be affordable to most people.(I won't even consider one myself as they are stupid prices for what they are)
Low income families who need a car to get to work just about manage to afford a £500 Fiesta/Corsa etc and no way they could afford one of these.
Thank godness the target of 2030 will never be met...more chance of meeting this target than walking into a Rolex shop and buying a watch.
A whole raft of new power stations, running on the abundance of spare diesel
You know that’s what it’ll be though, I was only reading last week coal power stations have started back up and the coal has to be imported, which is nuts
The aim is to stop the sales of new ICE vehicles by 2030. My guess is they’ve said 2030 to achieve their carbon neutral target of 2050.
A new ICE vehicle sold in 2029 will probably be passed the £500 banger by 2050..
Used Petrol/Diesel cars will hold their secondhand values better for at least a few years after 2030. All those people in terraces/flats etc.
Remember, ten years ago, there was only one or two EVs available and no infrastructure. Even the Leaf wasn’t launched until 2011.
Look how far we’ve come over the last ten years, the next ten will no doubt see far greater changes.
As a millennial living in London without a car, I support this plan. Of course I have the same concerns as most people with the infrastructure to support and transition but I feel that this would create a massive economic opportunity in both the short and long term. They interviewed the boss of Vauxhall on BBC Breakfast this morning and he is very optimistic about it. Naturally he already drives an EV himself.
Personally I think that spending money on EV infrastructure is way better than the ridiculous amounts being spent on HS2.
Or even a Llama snot and fermented hippo shit mixture
(Aka American beer!)
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