Reply With Quote3 foot,you must have a big room.
I always work on the triangle method,speakers and me equal distance.
Hi guys,
Looking for a bit of that audio wisdom that I know is about on the forum please.
So my lovely new speakers arrived today (Kef Q550), I know I obviously need to try them out to decide if they are in an ok position but the amp doesn’t arrive until end of the week (torture!).
They are 67” inches apart which is going to have to do. My question is about that left speaker, I have been reading it should be 3 feet away from the side wall, and it is, but that side wall is an alcove that will soon have a book case in it. The narrower part of the room, ie where the fireplace sticks out is about 17” inches away from the side of the left speaker.
I think my question, according to traditional wisdom would I be better placing them closer together and having more of a gap from the side wall or leaving them as far apart as possible. Hmm, obvious answer is listen and decide I guess but I interested in your thoughts on it!
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3 foot,you must have a big room.
I always work on the triangle method,speakers and me equal distance.
It is a big room, to be honest it is far from the ideal shape for a good hifi system but I have always wanted one and the wife has finally agreed so have to try and make it work!Originally Posted by bwest76
The equilateral triangle won't be very achievable, when I am having a listening "session" I would be seated about 10 feet away
Play them for a few hours until the sound has registered in your head. Then move them around a couple of inches and after another few hours of listening, move them again. Move them closer and further apart, near and further from the wall and experiment with a 15 degree toe in. The main thing is not to keep repositioning them every 5 minutes. There is no fixed rule on position, your ears will decide what is best. Once you like the sound, leave it at that.
I have a pair of Shahinian speakers that are omnidirectional and they sound pretty much the same no matter where you sit.
Thanks for the advice. I think I would have been guilty of moving them every half a song if you hadn't of said that, but that sounds good!
Like your speakers I am kind of hoping all the very particular speaker placement advice you find online is a bit OTT and actually there is probably a range of positions and places the speakers will sound "good" in.
I think you need to experiment and see what sounds best. I think your biggest problem is the wood floor, your room is likely to make things sound a bit bright. I’m faced with a similar problem, I move into my new property next week and acoustically the lounge/ dining area will be a nightmare, laminate wood flooring and and L shaped room with a bay window isn’t ideal but I've got plenty of other move- related challenges to occupy my mind at the moment.
I suggest you get curtains up and soft furniture installed, including a big rug if possible, then assess the sound the juggle the speakers to give the best effect. We live in real rooms, not acoustically- designed listening rooms!
If your room still sounds bright it may be worth putting the speakers into the corners, let your ears be the judge. I currently have speakers in the corners of an L shaped kitchen/ diner which was partially carpeted, when I had laminate flooring fitted throughout it brightened up the sound but it mitigated the bass- heavy effect of having to place speakers in the corners, the end result was very pleasing for certain types of music ( rock/ dance music) and nicely captured the ‘ sound’ of a 70s nightclub!
I’m downsizing, from next week my spacious kitchen/ diner/will be history, I have fond memories of cooking curries on Saturday evenings whilst having a beer or two and dancing around to the Radio Leeds Northern Soul show........I digress!
Seriously, its horses for courses with music, don’t get too hung up on what the purists recommend. We all hear things differently, just go with what sounds right for you.
With some speakers you can get a so called ‘sweet spot’ for optimal listening. But that can be comparatively small and would dictate where to put your favourite armchair. However, perfectly acceptable compromises can be achieved that will give good results wherever you sit with most speakers. It may take a while but you can have fun and learn while optimising to suit your situation. Very often other factors will dictate options available ie: SWMBO!! Good luck and as per previous, don’t rush.
Incidentally, I also have Shahinian speakers and agree, placing them is not as important as other makes. Mine are only 3 feet apart towards a corner, but work beautifully.
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Place them as directed and then have a long listen, if they have a rear port move them toward and away from the wall, it take a long time to position the speakers to suit the room, I have Isobaric speakers, to achieve good balance they are slightly lop sided, one speaker is nearer the side wall than the other by about three inches
I always thought give or take the spacing was 8 to 9 feet, the other biggie is isolation, looking at your floor you might want to try putting them on paving stones and see if it makes a huge difference, if it does you will need to find a way of isolating them that looks pleasing to you.
Last edited by adrianw; 16th November 2020 at 20:31.
mine are on a wooden floor on spikes so I put some plywood underneath,in front is a thick rug.
I found the JPW instructions the other day they should be against a wall,one isn't but there is stuff behind them.
I found the sound is best for me using the triangle its not a big room though.
If you want to be blown away buy The Beatles white album remastered,its the most wonderful listening experience of my vinyl life.
Even the songs I didn't like I do know,I cant explain why its so good.
That is correct, try as near as possible for an equilateral triangle relative to your seating.
I would say if the speaker is 2 feet from the side you should be ok.
You may need the sponges in the rear ports of they are within 10 inches of the rear wall but that is trial and error.
The good thing with your speakers being KEF is the Uni-Q driver which images very well which means your sitting position is more flexible.
As others have said soft furnishings, drapes, rugs, will help to prevent the room sounding reflective and hard.
You can use the spikes on the stands resting on small coins to prevent marking a wooden floor.
There's always a little trial and error involved but at the end of the day a good system is about enjoying the music... Happy listening!!!
I tried coins Rod but kept knocking the speaker off,would a tile be better than plywood?
I made a big mistake,I tried to wash dust out of the speaker soft covers it was mdf or something and it crumbled.
Last edited by bwest76; 16th November 2020 at 21:22.
Your guitar is going to interact with the speakers especially as you turn them up.......it will resonate
VOE here, stick a solid body electric there and park the acoustic somewhere else
You could try the tile bluetak'ed to the floor, or, if your happy to do this, 4 x pozidrive screws into the floor and rest the spikes in them.
Not sure I understand your dust issue? The grills & MDF?
Here you go:
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
I’ve used these speaker stand cups on wooden floors before, they did seem to help.
https://www.hifigear.co.uk/accessori...ike-shoes.html
That room is not very 'Hi-Fi' friendly. Lots of reflective planes (wood floor, flat painted walls), the resonating box in the corner as mentioned above and what is probably a suspended floor with another resonating cavity underneath.
My advice would be
1) get rid of the guitar as suggested above.
2) Put the speakers on something heavy (or get some floating speaker platforms if you have no kids or large pets)
3) Put something on the wall behind the speakers
4) move them further apart and angle them slightly inwards if you can.
If none of these things are possible it may be worth investing in some room correction hardware / software.
Of course all the above will improve things only by about 10%
Personally I'd move 'em further apart / out, toe them in a bit and call it a day. Speaker positioning is a black art leading to a black hole of self doubt, expense and mania but then this is a watch forum so you probably enjoy that sort of thing already.
Haha that’s a relieve about the 10% I can feel myself getting neurotic already and haven’t even listened to them. I think if I think they sound good I won’t mess all that much! Thanks for all the advice though!That room is not very 'Hi-Fi' friendly. Lots of reflective planes (wood floor, flat painted walls), the resonating box in the corner as mentioned above and what is probably a suspended floor with another resonating cavity underneath.
My advice would be
1) get rid of the guitar as suggested above.
2) Put the speakers on something heavy (or get some floating speaker platforms if you have no kids or large pets)
3) Put something on the wall behind the speakers
4) move them further apart and angle them slightly inwards if you can.
If none of these things are possible it may be worth investing in some room correction hardware / software.
Of course all the above will improve things only by about 10%
Personally I'd move 'em further apart / out, toe them in a bit and call it a day. Speaker positioning is a black art leading to a black hole of self doubt, expense and mania but then this is a watch forum so you probably enjoy that sort of thing already.
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What about changing your listening position to the sofa on the right of your photo and position the speakers either side of the chimney breast; that would easily achieve the equilateral triangle, and keep the speakers well away from side walls. Refection from the coffee table would be something to consider.
Think you'll be needing some new speaker cable, the whole system will sound terrible otherwise.........
https://www.analogueseduction.net/te...er-cables.html
Last speakers I bought were checked for installation by local chap from the shop, I have the room for them to be about 2.5m apart, I sit in the middle of the placement but they are lined so I can see a bit of the sides that face each other, this means a line taken through the centre line meets behind my head so the sound stage is in front of me. Trial and error is really the only way but if they are brand new they may settle in a bit, try them using the same music when you move them anytime as a standard baseline?
I can only see one solution
move house.
Broached that idea... it’s a negative from the chief.
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Amp arrived and I was heart broken as they just sounded terrible... the Naim Muso I just sold sounded much better. I think just too close together. Much bartering done with SWMBO and moved to opposite end of the room where they can be 6 foot apart and in the middle of the room. They sound great here! I am sure, technically they don’t have room to “breathe” but it works for me!
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Try pulling the speakers out a few inches so as they are sticking out about 1" - 2 " beyond the wall. You are currently stiffling the sound on those side walls.
Wife likes the ‘leaning’ shelving unit, I may have a ‘home improvement’ task coming at me, were custom made or bought ready to install? If I may be so bold, Ta.
Bought from John Lewis if memory serves. Looks smart enough, very heavy.
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Look at a MINI-DSP 2x4 which is about £100. This will allow you to correct any spikes in your speakers and add equalisation.
You’ll need a UMIK mic too but they are well worth the investment if you want to add correction to a non hifi-friendly room.
It basically sits between source and amp via RCA.
I have an Antimode on my subwoofer but this looks like the next step above! Was thinking of getting the microphone and trying it out on Foobar on the computer as it has a free room correction plug in called Math Audio.
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Ive not heard of these before. My AV amp set up uses a mic on a lead and test tones for speaker calibration which I assume is the same thing but I didn't know you can get them as a stand alone unit. Are they just plug and play or do you need to hook them up to a computer and run some software? On my set up it is a sonos connect to a roksan kandy dac and then a Roskan kandy amp so would it go between the sonos and DAC?
You would put it between the DAC and the amp.
If you have some time watch this (ignoring the sub bit at the end) - https://youtu.be/ihOMKQ3i2OM
Thanks for the information. I'll take a look
Bit of a thread resurrection, but wondered how you got on, long term?
I’m expecting delivery of my Q550’s today and mulling over placement - also expecting a break in period, so not expecting great sound immediately, but would love to hear your impressions..?
Based on first photo I would hang up a thick curtain along the entire wall. Acoustics is key, if not the single most important factor, for good sounds.
Still have the speakers! I think they are good value at the £600 I got them. Some tweaking done though. I now have them slightly further apart and on granite tiles for isolation. As good as I can get it with my acoustically compromised room! Room is the weakest link in my system, not the speakers.
Good to hear that you ended up with a pleasing result, despite the limitations.
My room is carpeted, but they’ll probably end up closer to the wall than they should be, but hoping with the sealed rear and omnidirectional drivers, I’ve done the best that I can in speaker choice to mitigate the room layout.
I can’t imagine everyone having the perfect listening room layout, or indeed, a perfect wife that understands the geeky lengths we wish to go to, so compromises everywhere.
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