I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the premium brands and find myself drawn elsewhere.
Hence my question. If you balanced availability, cost, customer service, service costs, reliability etc. what watch, or brand, do you think offers the best all round ownership prospect over the longer term?
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Boring answer here but I'd say Rolex. Without playing the AD game there are watches which are available which will fit the purpose and at least one AD offers a 10 year warranty. Second hand also has great options like the Explorer or the 16600.
Depends on budget and purpose but for me personally I would say Rolex.
I’m not sure this is the answer you want, but bar availability, it’s Rolex
With all the majors you are essentially buying a watch, and a long term service contract. As efficient as their service departments are, it’s hard to feel more than a number on a spreadsheet.
My next reasonably expensive watch will be a watch for life from an independent, almost certainly Habring. Brands such as Dornbluth and Brellum also have a good blend of quality and price, and offer a more personal relationship with the maker
Dave
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I'm not going to say Rolex as I think it misses the mark a little. I'm not going to say one of the Microbrands either except for Timefactors of course who tick all of the boxes if the shop is open.
So, having recently bought one I'm going to say Tudor. They are available, customer service no better or worse than anybody else where an AD is involved in he process, and nice looking watches if you want a tool watch. My alternative Longines, an overlooked brand that covers all market segments at a reasonable prices and has a horological history to die for.
Agreed - Invicta are amazingOriginally Posted by M1011
Steinhart Ocean 1.
Cheap, reliable, readily available, easily serviced, excellent customer service, great residuals.
Tudor gets my vote on this one
The best one!
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Rolex!
As long as you are a gammon or a rapper.
(Runs away from kippers in red trousers and roadmen brandishing "investments" and "bling".)
Maybe a used new series seamaster like the white dialled one that just sold?
or a Tudor, they make a pretty good case for themselves at the price.
There is a perfect website for the red trouser chaps.
look at my 'fricking' red trousers
Hopefully a swear word in the link isn't breaking the rules.
I’m not sure about a brand, but I’ve had my quartz Omega Seamaster for 17(ish) years. It’s been back to omega, maybe 4 or 5 times. The service at the Omega boutique is second to none and I don’t think it’s that expensive. I would say, for 17 years worth, it’s been a fantastic value watch.
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Last edited by Piemuncher22; 15th November 2020 at 21:44.
Casio - initial outlay about £100 and solar powered and radio synched, 200m wrt - G-Shock GW-M5610-1ER. Buy - wear - repeat.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 15th November 2020 at 22:45.
That’s easy....Seiko.
Omega and Tudor.
This is actually a very interesting question, refreshingly free as it is of considerations around “investment value”, depreciation and so on. What would you own and wear to enjoy, for the long haul, avoiding as much ownership-induced hassle as possible?
Rolex has strong inherent traits, but is unfortunately now much diminished by the, ahem, clamour etcetera.
Omega? My wife certainly enjoys hers.
And maybe it’s just me but I’m increasingly drawn to Cartier, which might meet some of your criteria.
As much as I love my Grand Seiko, I don’t know if they offer that little frisson of excitement that should be part of the equation... doubtless others will argue the flip.
Sinn ftw
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
+1
These pre ceramic full gold subs in my opinion are the nicest out of the bunch. Hard to find a good example of one though!
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For me it is all about the watch. If I like the watch the other aspects don’t really drag me down. Each ownership experience is different with different pluses and minuses. I am not going to enjoy an okay watch just because it was easy to procure, cheap to service and the AD was nice to me. OTOH, if I like the watch I am not put off by waiting times, unavailbility, resale value or cost of service.
The most satisfying ownership experiences I have had have mostly been to do with finding and restoring/improving a good version of a watch I have wanted for ages, or engaging with a watch company or start-up and over their journey.
Just about my most treasured watch is my Tudor snowflake, which I have taken from sorry wreck to respectable example.
And I have loved engaging with Eddie here, Francis who runs Siduna, Paolo who runs A-13A, Ewan at Newmark, the English brothers at Bremont and Charlie who runs Alkin.
Owner satisfaction from any major brand cannot compete with either the glow from a restoration well done, or actually interacting with the process of designing and making a watch.
Watches can be about so much more than just getting your credit card out and walking away with a new toy.
It sounds like you are beginning to feel that the "brands" are there to milk your cash, so find another way to interact with the hobby.
Dave
Given the criteria Rolex misses the mark purely on availability, once you start paying grey / pre owned prices there are far more worthy brands.
Personally there are so many that could hit the mark (most already mentioned) that it comes down to a matter of personal choice. Grand Seiko, Ulysse Nardin, Breiting, Omega, Tudor, Panerai, even TAG could be said to offer what the OP wishes it just depends on how the criteria are balanced to his preferences.
Personally I'd be a toss up between Breitling and UN. But that, of course, is just me.
Thanks for the responses so far.
Currently I have:-
Sub Date 116610ln
Tudor BB GMT
Sinn 144
Sinn 857 UTC
Sinn 556
Citizen Eco Drive Diver
G Shock 5610
Casio F91 w
Seiko SQ 100
Quite a broad collection. The nearest Rolex/Tudor AD to me is family owned. They're great. I just find it increasingly hard to justify spending many thousands on a watch.
I will never get rid of the Sub. It was given to me on a significant birthday.
The Tudor I am somewhat ambivalent about. I fell for the hype and had the first the AD received. It hasn't yet had the "date issue" and I was reassured that there seems to be a consensus that, as a known fault, it would be addressed if it arose post warranty, or maybe at its next service. I don't wear it though.
The 144 was a birthday present. I love it. It is maybe my favourite.
The 857 is a bit big. I may move it on.
The 556 is the watch I maybe get the most wear from. It's just so versatile.
But then here comes another kicker. COVID has completely changed my attitude to watches. I have only been into my office 4 times since March. Going forward i can see me predominantly working from home. When I do i mostly wear the Citizen or one of the Casio. Then I start thinking, "what's the point?"
I do still hanker after watches. I really like the Mido Ocean Star GMT. But would I get one? Not unless my mindset changes.
So how does this relate to my original question? What puts me off? Initial cost - certainly. Reliability - maybe. I stopped wearing the BB GMT fearing the date issue. Irrational I know. Cost of servicing - less so, although I do think some take the Michael somewhat. Customer service - certainly. A little like car ownership. I have had premium brands but the ownership experience was dire. MB were the worst. Lexus by contrast were amazing. It's that customer service that would make me choose one again.
It's perhaps the same thing that drives me to use my local butcher over the supermarket. Cheaper - no, but the all round experience for me is better.
Very subjective of course.
Apologies for the ramblings and perhaps less than relevant analogies.
Would be interested to hear what anyone else thinks...
Cheers
HP
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You could look at vintage for a change but for your original question I'd suggest Damasko. I've read about some issues with their service but my experiences have been very positive (and you can go through Neil at Chronomaster if you prefer, assuming I've remembered that correctly).
They are fairly rare in the wild, have proprietory tech, are almost impossible to mark up which is handy when wearing at home/out and about, many have ETA movements so can be serviced by lots of knowledgeable watch repairers and when bought second hand depreciation is minimal.
Neil is a good guy. Bought all my Sinn through him. Also bought a Damasko DC56 from him a number of years ago. Wish I'd never sold it. I do like some of the Damasko divers. Might look at those again.
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I've a DC56si black, just given it to my eldest, although he was after a Pepsi diver. I'm hoping he'll prefer the Damasko, or maybe the DA46 I regularly wear, but we'll see.
Last edited by deepreddave; 16th November 2020 at 23:09.
Yes but the GW-5000.
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Hmmnnn if I like the watch I buy it, sometimes depending on finances that doesn't happen.
First and foremost: responsibility before extravagant purchases
As for your list:
Availabilty: Only plays a part if your looking for a sought after or older vintage watch that doesn't mean it's the best watch you can buy
Cost: You pay for the name mostly so if your buying based on cost you tend to pay for the name/reputation
Customer Service: Only counts if you need to use their aftermarket or warranty services but most well known brands have good CS - most complaints I see tend to be with microbrands so buyer beware
Service Costs: In-house movements cost more than those that can be serviced by independent watch makers but I think it's really not by more than a couple hundred
Reliability: movement would be the deciding factor here a workhorse like a V7750 is a safe bet there are others but the newer in-house movements you would have to take a punt with until they had history so the gamble is on whether the CS is there and I say a well known brand is a safe bet
I think the best watch that fits this criteria is the one I like the best if I can get my hands on it with a serviceable movement that I have no problems paying for if it's out of warranty and this is the watch that fits your list. I think your looking into it too deep though.
I think hobbies and interests are like ethics - they’re what we do when no-one is watching. Reads to me that you do not have have, or no longer have, an interest in watches - and you’ve set out entirely understandable reasons for that. I’d say move them on, and work out what you’re genuinely interested in regardless of whether you have an audience. And good luck.
Precisely. If you are wearing a watch to impress or attract attention it is a different matter.
I wear watches for myself. If I look at it and it gives me a tickle, it is all that matters. For me it is the feeling on the wrist that matters. All this hocuspocus of ownership experience doesn’t matter to me.
Well put Raj.
If I go by the number of watches by the brands I own, Casio wins - and I immensely enjoy my G-shocks but not sure the best and a bit niche. Seiko would be second, mostly older watches and in that regard there is a great satisfaction due to the breadth of their back catalog.
Going more modern and probably my most satisfying ownership, have been my Ming watches. Currently own 3 and a fourth incoming. Why? Because the designs and philosophy of watchmaking very closely aligns to what I look for in watches. And I think for most, the likely answer is a smaller watch brand where the elements which matter to you align. The likes of Sinn, Damasko and Timefactors are fantastic options to explore and find out where you actually land.
Amen. And variability being what it is, one person could have a wonderful "ownership experience" of (say) an Omega and the next, an absolutely terrible time. And the factors determining these evaluations aren't likely to be intrinsic to the watch itself, or even the brand.
Added to that, "ownership experience" is a volatile thing: in the first six months I had my current Volvo, it went wrong so often I was seriously threatening to send it back and demand a refund. Then they did a complete software change, all the gremlins got squashed and in the three and a half years since it's not missed a beat and I've loved owning it. "How's the ownership experience" would've got quite a different answer, depending on when I was asked.
Get something you like the look of with a quartz movement.
I've had two batteries in my SMP in around 20 years, no other outlay.
Cheers,
Neil.
Or Damasko?
I've not heard great things about customer service but I can't comment from personal experience.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
My route would be to buy a used Grand seiko quartz on SC, then keep it for a lifetime. You get fabulous quality, which is a pleasure to have on the wrist, and the total cost will just be the occasional new battery.
To me, real quality is a pleasure, no-matter where you are, or what you do. Only one life...
Incidentally, splashing out on a basic Rolex could be cheaper over the years, than several cheap, ultimately worthless, watches. So, several approaches....
I had my Damasko servicing done by ChronoMaster (excellent service). But I can’t comment regarding Damasko in Germany. And while I’d put Damasko equal to Sinn, they aren’t in the Grand Seiko league.
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