Do chronometers have a 'settling in' period?

[sav_uk]

Hey All,

Happy Friday :)

I've heard and read about how automatic watches have a 'settling in period' although I know that's a point of debate.

Are chronometer-rated watches any different in that regard? Since the movement has undergone further adjustments and tests to obtain COSC certification, would that indicate that the way they run when brand new is how they always will? If you purchased a chronometer and it ran +15 spd out of the box would that be an indication that there might be an issue with the movement?

Cheers!

[beechcustom]

Happy Friday! I'm still learning about movements and timekeeping but I can say with some confidence that +15 per day for a COSC movement is not acceptable and suggests it needs to be regulated properly. I recently purchased an Onega with Metas certification that Omega refer to as Master Chronometer. My understanding is that these movements undertake significant testing before they are allowed to go on sale. I'm not sure about other brands but for these Metas Omega watches at least, there shouldn't be a running in period.

[Murdoc]

If I bought a chronometer that was running +15spd it would go straight back for regulation.

[walkerwek1958]

This old chestnut keeps rearing its head. OP is either asking a general question out if interest or is concerned about a watch he’s bought, he doesn’t say which.

In my experience, a freshly serviced watch can take around one week to produce consistent rate figures, but the change is usually small (around 3-4 secs/ day) and they don’t change by 15 secs. Precision won’t change, if the positional variation is poor it’ll stay poor. After several days running the rate won’t change significantly. I would expect a new watch to settle quicker than an older movement with more wear, that’s what I’ve seen.

One of the key factors owners overlook is the state of wind and how this affects rate. If the watch isn’t running in a high state of wind the rate will be affected because the amplitude will be low. This will also affect positional variation.

COSC rating confuses people, the fact that a watch is running between -4 and +6 doesn’t imply its running to COSC specification. A watch that shows positional variation > 10 secs won’t meet COSC but it may be possible to regulate it to run between -4 and +6. Likewise a watch that’s giving excellent precision may be running outside this range because it needs regulating.

An easy test to carry out is to compare the rate on the wrist to the dial- up rate. Compare the watch to a known reliable source, note the difference in the morning, wear the watch, note it again at night, leave the watch dial- up overnight and note the difference. Do this for a few days and see what it tells you.

[notenoughwrists]

Off the back of this, I have just checked my new Rolex.

I noticed that from the box it was just under 2secs fast per 24hrs - but as said, this was only loosely wound and worn for a day or two.

I have since worn it for a week or so, then set it against time.is and have monitored.

As of right now, 3 weeks of constant wear (day and night), it is running at +0.4secs a day.
Astounding really...


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[sav_uk]

This old chestnut keeps rearing its head. OP is either asking a general question out if interest or is concerned about a watch he’s bought, he doesn’t say which.

In my experience, a freshly serviced watch can take around one week to produce consistent rate figures, but the change is usually small (around 3-4 secs/ day) and they don’t change by 15 secs. Precision won’t change, if the positional variation is poor it’ll stay poor. After several days running the rate won’t change significantly. I would expect a new watch to settle quicker than an older movement with more wear, that’s what I’ve seen.

One of the key factors owners overlook is the state of wind and how this affects rate. If the watch isn’t running in a high state of wind the rate will be affected because the amplitude will be low. This will also affect positional variation.

COSC rating confuses people, the fact that a watch is running between -4 and +6 doesn’t imply its running to COSC specification. A watch that shows positional variation > 10 secs won’t meet COSC but it may be possible to regulate it to run between -4 and +6. Likewise a watch that’s giving excellent precision may be running outside this range because it needs regulating.

An easy test to carry out is to compare the rate on the wrist to the dial- up rate. Compare the watch to a known reliable source, note the difference in the morning, wear the watch, note it again at night, leave the watch dial- up overnight and note the difference. Do this for a few days and see what it tells you.

Yup, you hit the nail on the head. I seem to be having a bit of a bad run of luck with watches I've purchased recently :(.

The watch in question is the new Longines Spirit 3-hander, 40mm with blue dial which is COSC-rated. It arrived on Tuesday and I wound it fully and set the time, checking it the next day. I didn't wear it as I've not yet had the bracelet sized so I put it back in the box, on the cushion (dial facing upwards).The next day I noticed it had gained 15 seconds over 24 hours.

I did the same thing the day after, and noticed again it was 15 seconds fast. I re-set the time this morning at 10am and by 1pm it had already gained 6 seconds. I don't believe the watch would be magnetised as it has a silicon hairspring so should be anti-magnetic (I think).

I feel terrible raising this with the AD, because I hate the feeling of being a nuisance since I've already had to send back a TAG I bought at the same time for having dust on the dial. I've become quite friendly with them, so it's definitely not anything to do with the way they've been with me. I just really dislike the feeling of being an inconvenience since it's not their fault either and the gentleman I deal with is a sound guy.

Argh, a bit of a rubbish predicament to be in... I'll check the watch again tomorrow morning and if it's gained another 15 seconds I think I'll have no choice but to contact them and see what can be done.

[Murdoc]

I feel terrible raising this with the AD, because I hate the feeling of being a nuisance since I've already had to send back a TAG I bought at the same time for having dust on the dial. I've become quite friendly with them, so it's definitely not anything to do with the way they've been with me. I just really dislike the feeling of being an inconvenience since it's not their fault either and the gentleman I deal with is a sound guy.

Argh, a bit of a rubbish predicament to be in... I'll check the watch again tomorrow morning and if it's gained another 15 seconds I think I'll have no choice but to contact them and see what can be done.

I don’t understand your reluctance to return it. You’ve spent a lot of money on something that doesn’t do what it should, it’s not your fault they sold you two lemons.

[higham5]

I don’t understand your reluctance to return it. You’ve spent a lot of money on something that doesn’t do what it should, it’s not your fault they sold you two lemons.

Plus 1 for the above , you have two separate quality issues. The AD is dealing with two different suppliers Tag / Longines, so dont feel bad. Plus 15 secs per day is not acceptable.

Steve

[paskinner]

It’s certainly not faulty....if only because it seems pretty consistent. Which is good. Presumably, you want good timekeeping on the wrist. My approach would be to wear the watch for a full week, noting timekeeping once a day. Then, If it’s well out, get Longines to regulate it. Otherwise, hopefully, you can just enjoy it.
Mechanical watches are prone to these little hitches. Because they are mechanical....

[huytonman]

My personal experience is that Longines has excellent customer service - do as suggested and after a week if its still not up to scratch contact Longines directly. In may case I asked them if I could buy a spare bracelet link, their response was "no, but we will send you a postage paid envelope, fit a link and return it" this all occurred within a week - I was impressed and not a penny changed hands. You may get the same level of service through the AD - depends how diligent they are.
Keith

[xellos99]

15 seconds out would drive me insane.

I regulated a £28 Vostok hand winder with a screwdriver only and timed it many times a day against an atomic gshock.

I could not detect a second gain or loss for 3 days. I recorded it and noted the date and when i had it on and when i took it off at night.

Remember this is a watch with a hand winder movement in a £28 watch regulated by an unskilled person.

13/02/20
23:35 -1 SEC / OFF WRIST

14/02/20
07:35
08:35 -1 SEC / ON WRIST
09:45 -1 SEC
12:45 -1 SEC
14:00 -1 SEC
15:15 -1 SEC
16:00 -1 SEC
18:25 -1 SEC
19:30 -1 SEC
20:35 -1 SEC
21:25 -1 SEC
22:00 -1 SEC
23:35 -1 SEC / OFF WRIST

15/02/20
08:50 -1 SEC / ON WRIST
09:35 -1 SEC

[monogroover]

I've managed to regulate two Seiko 5s to within 5 SPD, with no conspicuous expertise to draw upon - so I would definitely look to have a 15 SPD error rectified on a watch of any significant value.

[walkerwek1958]

Suggest the OP follows my advice, wear it 16 hrs/day and leave it dial up overnight, record all the numbers, then review what its really doing. It sounds likely that the watch is indeed running fast, but that’s based on running 24 hrs dial -up and that’s not conclusive.

The watch may need regulating, but it makes sense to collect the data over a week or two rather than jump to conclusions.....trust me I don’t make this up!

[Tom-P]

My personal experience is that Longines has excellent customer service - do as suggested and after a week if its still not up to scratch contact Longines directly. In may case I asked them if I could buy a spare bracelet link, their response was "no, but we will send you a postage paid envelope, fit a link and return it" this all occurred within a week - I was impressed and not a penny changed hands. You may get the same level of service through the AD - depends how diligent they are.

Second that. This way the OP avoids the stated awkwardness with the AD, but it's always best to deal direct anyway. Longines have a good reputation for aftercare.

[sav_uk]

Plus 1 for the above , you have two separate quality issues. The AD is dealing with two different suppliers Tag / Longines, so dont feel bad. Plus 15 secs per day is not acceptable.

Steve

I agree mate. I've emailed the AD today to see what their recommendations are.

I wound the watch fully again yesterday morning and set the time. Again, 24 hours later the watch had gained 12 seconds so something is definitely unusual.

Will see what they say and I'm probably being silly in feeling awkward about this, and it's not their fault anyway. If there is some issue with the movement it's down to Longines anyway!

[walkerwek1958]

I wound the watch fully again yesterday morning and set the time. Again, 24 hours later the watch had gained 12 seconds so something is definitely unusual.

All this proves is that the watch gains 12 seconds over a 24hr period if fully wound and stored dial- up. I agree, it sounds high, but unless you wear tge watch and do as I suggested you won’t get a clear picture of what its doing.

Putting it on a timegrapher and comparing all 6 positions would be interesting. Without seeing the amplitude figures and the positional agreement you can’t draw any conclusions, it could be running perfectly well albeit slightly fast.

Silly question, but I’ll ask it: are you confident you’re comparing it to a reliable source?

I think its unrealistic to condemn the watch without wearing it and seeing how it performs, if your numbers are correct its likely that it is running fast, but a more complete set of data us required to confirm this.

In an ideal world, the ADs selling watches would have the on- site expertise to regulate watches, or at the very least to check them on a timegrapher to see whether there is a problem........sadly those days are long gone.

[MrBanks]

The simple answer is no.

[Rev-O]

One of the key factors owners overlook is the state of wind and how this affects rate. If the watch isn’t running in a high state of wind the rate will be affected because the amplitude will be low. This will also affect positional variation.

I thought that a fully wound watch would have higher amplitude as there is more power to swing the balance? That in turn would make the watch run slow.

At +15 secs per day could magnetism be an issue?

[alfat33]

I thought that a fully wound watch would have higher amplitude as there is more power to swing the balance? That in turn would make the watch run slow.

At +15 secs per day could magnetism be an issue?

The amplitude in theory shouldn’t affect the rate at all, if I remember my physics correctly. When it gets low I think friction and other effects start to become significant.

[walkerwek1958]

The amplitude in theory shouldn’t affect the rate at all, if I remember my physics correctly. When it gets low I think friction and other effects start to become significant.

Trust me, amplitude does affect rate! In theory a watch with a conventional regulator should run faster with reduced amplitude, in practice they often don’t. A free- sprung balance should be less affected by low amplitude, I have limited experience with free sprung balances to confirm this, but the Rolex watches I’ve owned have been good in this respect.

There is an element of cause and effect when a watch has low amplitude and is performing poorly. Low amplitude is usually caused by poor lubrication and wear, the watch is invariably in need of attention. in need of attention.

As a general rule, over the 260-300 degree range, rate is pretty constant if a watch is in good condition. Ironically, a watch that gives high amplitude above 310 degrees can show deviations in rate, making it tricky to regulate and susceptible to variations in wear pattern.

Regulation is a complex subject, some watches are easy to get right whilst others can be frustrating. If positional variation is good, the amplitude good but not excessive, its generally straightforward, but sometimes a watch will apparently defy logic. I always base regulation on 16hrs wear followed by 8hrs dial up overnight, aiming for an overall rate of around +2 to +4. Leaving a watch dial-up overnight has to improve consistency, but I confess to sleeping in watches despite this advice!

[bambam]

An easy test to carry out is to compare the rate on the wrist to the dial- up rate. Compare the watch to a known reliable source, note the difference in the morning, wear the watch, note it again at night, leave the watch dial- up overnight and note the difference. Do this for a few days and see what it tells you.

When you do this test, do you reset the watch if it is out in the morning/evening or just leave it and note the difference over a few days?