Reply With QuoteI’ve used CAT driver coaching a few times although not for almost 10 years. If Colin is still going, he’s very, very good.
Ooh, almost 150 posts!
Does anyone here have any experience of "advanced" driving courses? For various reasons I've been looking into a few near me, though clearly it'll have to wait for Covid to bugger off.
Is the RoSPA certification still held in esteem? What does it entail if so, is it a challenging test or (as I picture it) just a standard driving test out on the open road but with stricter marking?
I have a vague recollection of my Dad doing a police drivers course many many years ago (1990's), or if not that then certainly something equivalent. After a brief browse online it seems those are a thing of the past, but there are a few other civilian options which come a close second. Certainly wouldn't hurt to learn a few new tricks on the road and be a safer driver.
Thanks for any advice or experiences.
I’ve used CAT driver coaching a few times although not for almost 10 years. If Colin is still going, he’s very, very good.
Ooh, almost 150 posts!
The preparation for the IAM or Rospa will be to read the Roadcraft Police drivers handbook, and to re-read the highway code.
Local Rospa groups used to offer free driver assessments (pre-Covid).
You can Join Rospa for £50-ish quid, pay an annual members fee to the group, and book the £30-ish quid test when ready. I did that in the mid 90's, and get a free retest every 3-years in with the annual membership fee.
I believe the IAM is a single test, with no 3-year re-assessments.
And yes, it is a 1-hour drive to show you can make good progress on different types of road, while anticipating the actions of others, avoiding hazards, and absorbing the information available. With a few highway code questions at the end.
It’s a long time since I did my IAM test but in the 90s the course was “free” - the expectation was that you would give up your time to coach at least one other candidate through their test
The test was with a class 1 police driver ( gods)
Back then the IAM was held in higher esteem than ROSpA - not sure if that stands today
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I too sat the IAM test in the '90s. I had 6 points on my licence and was caught speeding that was of a level to be a court case and I was told beforehand I would be given between 3 and 6 points + a fine. I was young, stupid and car daft at the time. I was looking for ways to minimise the risk of a ban so signed up to the IAM test so I could state that in my guilty plea to the court. I actually really enjoyed it and learned quite a bit, despite probably thinking at the time I would know it all and it would be a breeze. Reeny's one liner in his second post summarises it well. I think the main thing I learned was observation skills and raised awareness. A lot probably depends on who you get as a trainer/instructor sitting beside you. Definitely worth it.
I’ve done IAM, ROSPA and bikesafe but for motorbikes not car.
All useful. My understanding is that the ‘quality’ of the local training groups is a huge factor. Jobsworths versus biker mates, etc.
I was advised to go along for taster sessions before committing. I did a pass fast route, I’m not sure I’d be interested in taking several months to complete it.
Sounds less onerous than the current theory test. My daughter is preparing for the theory test now and the volume and diversity of the content is unreal. What would you do if a man with three legs and walking a unicorn looked like he might want to cross the road 200 yards ahead of you on a clear road but with an 80% chance of precipitation in the next 3 seconds?
Originally Posted by Reeny
Regardless of the question, the answer is always slow down and check your mirrors.
I did the IAM test 15+ years ago, although once the membership expired, I chose not to renew. In my opinion, the test was straight forward and the training comes down to the individual trainer. I had my training with a retired traffic officer and picked up a lot about road positioning, looking in to the distance and knowing what's going on behind you.
I enjoyed giving the running commentary's and would kick myself back then if I couldn't tell you where a car behind me went. I am under no illusion that driving to that standard 100% of the time is hard work. Overall, the knowledge has made me a safer driver.
I did my driving course with the Police which lasted 6 weeks with 3 other officers on shifts day and night. It was very intensive culminating in a 1.5 hr test (Not easy with a Ch/Superintendent of RT Division sat in the back, 'there for the ride') .. anyway passed and eventually went on RT.
Hardest bit was reversing down a slope and round a bend at the bottom to test vehicle control and steering, the wheels had to be kept within a 4 inch margin.
The month was an icy January so we were able to do skid control on a rooftop car park in Billingham.
We drove over to the Lakes to do hill starts on Hardknott Pass. Commentary driving at speed was also required.
What I would say is 'go for it', it will tidy up a lot of sloppy driving techniques and you'll have the satisfaction of being an 'advanced driver'.
A tip which I recommend is to use the gears according to road speed, e.g. slowing down at a junction, to go from 4th to 2nd and miss 3 out.
Remember this mnemonic ... Can My Safety, Be, Given, Away.... meaning Course selected, Mirror, Signal, Brake, gear, accelerate. That will go down well with an AD instructor!
I'm a member of IAM and would not hesitate to recommend signing up; it has definitely helped me ride safer by making me more aware of what's going on around me.
Whether you enjoy the experience or not will depend, to a large extent, on the observers allocated to you, although in my experience they are often 'rotated' so you will get a variety, and whether you enjoy learning mnemonics such as IPSGA (Information, Position, Speed, Gear and Acceleration) and POWDERS (Petrol, Oil, Water, Damage/drive chain, Electrics, Rubber, Self).
As advised, Roadcraft and highway code are always good starting points.
You'd fall foul of the IAM training doing that. They teach 'gears to go, brakes to slow'.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Err, no. The example given was about going from 4 to 2 and missing out 3, based on road speed, which is exactly what the IAM advocates (rather than going 4 to 3 to 2 when you're not going to be using 3).
I passed the IAM advanced test in the mid-nineties. I think it’s a meaningless qualification unless you re-sit it every few years.
I believe the RoSPA test is much more demanding.
I completed the IAM course but got lucky and was trained by a serving Roads Policing officer with what was Strathclyde Police at the time. This was around 13 years ago but to this day, the techniques I learned stay with me and I enjoyed every minute of the training.
That said, I don’t know if I’d have learned as much were it not for the day job of my trainer.
Any advanced training is worth doing, even if you don’t wish to keep up the qualification it will teach you invaluable lessons and may lead to reduced insurance premiums.
It's possible I mis-interpreted 'A tip which I recommend is to use the gears according to road speed, e.g. slowing down at a junction, to go from 4th to 2nd and miss 3 out.'
https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index...ow-gears-to-goThese days, we recommend "block changing". Use the brakes to slow down, then, when the speed is right; choose the gear that is best for that speed. So, when approaching a red traffic light you may move from fifth gear, say, straight to first, after you have finished braking. Brake pads are cheaper to replace than clutches and transmission.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Did an IAM course around 1986, very useful course though somehow I failed the test at the end for the same reasons I failed my first driving test, not slowing soon enough approaching junctions. Intended trying again but work commitments kept getting in the way.
However I remember being taught to go from second straight to fourth (five/six speed boxes were very rare back then), it was felt this was more economical. Still to this day don't go through all the gears depending on the road, in the Panda have on occasion gone third to sixth going from a summit to a gentle downhill stretch.
Probably all changed now and I'm doing it all wrong.
Thank you, absolutely correct.
Nope - it's all about being in the correct gear for the conditions at all times.
That will sometimes involve missing out gears along the way. For example, you might accelerate in 2 or 3 on a motorway slip road until you get to your terminal velocity, at which point you slot into a gap and change into 5 or 6. Or you approach a roundabout in 5 or 4, and then at the go/no go decision point you change into 2 to accelerate. I've heard it described as "the gearbox has no memory" (i.e. there's no need to go sequentially through each of the gears - when you change into, say, 4, the gearbox has no way of knowing whether you're coming from 1, 2, 3, 5 or 6).
I did my IAM test back in 1990, and learnt a huge amount at the time, but gave up my membership a few years ago as I just wasn't getting any value out of it. As mentioned, once you've passed the IAM test, you are a member for life; I also wasn't convinced that a test I passed 30 years ago was still relevant today. The RoSPA test (as mentioned) has to be renewed every few years - it's also graded as Bronze/Silver/Gold whereas IAM is just pass/fail.
I’ve done IAM last year and bikesafe a couple of years prior. They’re both excellent for improving already competent drivers, and with the former you can set yourself the goal of a “f1rst” rather than a “pass” which is relatively challenging and in my view sets you up very well.
My local group had lots of ex-police drivers (and the assessor was an ex-police driving trainer) so the standard was extremely high. They all seemed to be into the idea of giving something back / leveraging their experience, so I’m sure the pattern’s fairly similar across the country.
Highly recommended, though there a few silly elements of the IAM syllabus: they put a daft emphasis on “progress”, which they use as a euphemistically at all times; some of the lines that they advocate for bends don’t allow for safe deviation in the face of commonly encountered unsafe opposing vehicle lines; and they have significant lacuna (amusingly, the syllabus elements on overtaking completely fail to instruct on safe driving for the overtakee). However, to emerge from the course with the knowledge and competencies to take one’s own view on these elements is wonderful, as is the ability to read an extra layer of detail on the road, from catseye spacing to ksi boards.
Go do it :)
That was not my experience of the 2018/19 teaching, which was highly focussed on appropriate use of gears in all driving phases.
If I was with the IAM my last test would have been 22 years ago.
I have sat 7x Rospa tests since 1998 - 3x Silver and 4x Gold grades.
My 8th retest is due in December, Covid permitting.
If you want to do the test once with a pass / fail result - go to the IAM
If you want a 3-yearly retest to make sure you keep your standards up - go to Rospa
My Rospa annual fees are £40 per year, and include the free retest.
Each organisation will have it's plus points, and negative points to consider.
Where the nearest local group is located could be the deciding factor on which way to go.
PS - I did the half day observers course with Rospa to sit in with trainees to get them up to speed for the test.
The course was excellent, and helping other people raised my own driving standards.
Most of the people I helped gained Gold standard for themselves.
Last edited by Reeny; 5th November 2020 at 00:54.
I've never done one of these, they seem to have become less popular than they were in the early 90s.
I recall one colleague who would go on endlessly about his IAM (The 'Great IAM' others referred to it as) training, but I've not heard mention of it in recent times.
To be honest, everything I've seen and read about it make it sound like the 'art of the bleeding obvious', but I guess that's probably the point (and I'm sure someone will say I could probably do with it, if I feel that way and I won't argue I'm the perfect driver).
When I've seen police advanced driving courses on TV, the commentating while driving does look a challenge - I sometimes do that to myself when driving, as it seems like a good way to up your awareness.
I think, back in the 90s, some insurers offered discounts for IAM/ROSPA - Is this still the case?
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Certainly agree that IAM is worthwhile if you want to refresh/improve your day to day driving. I have recently done a refresher with them, which was a fun couple of hours scooting round the Cotswolds with an ex Police instructor. His opening words were 'I want a spirited drive, please' which is not what a lot of people would expect.
Also recently went to CAT at Millbrook, mentioned above, and yes, Colin is still training, and well worth a day with them. Much higher level of car control explored on closed roads, so more attuned to understanding your car's dynamics.
https://catdrivertraining.co.uk/
While some of it is like the bleeding obvious, there are some significant differences from what’s taught for the DVSA test. Cornering lines and where you position your vehicle differ markedly from what’s taught to learners (and what otherwise experienced drivers do).
Usually, there’s a fairly bit of training in how to overtake safety on rural roads (so-called ‘three stage overtaking’). I’ve found it extremely useful. And it’s not something I could have learnt without formal training.
And my forward observation and anticipation improved a lot. Like many drivers, I only looked half a dozen cars ahead (before advanced training). Now my forward planning is a lot better.
While most bike insurers offer a discount, only some car insurance companies do. But the IAM has its own insurance scheme, which I’ve found significantly better than regular insurers. YMMV.
Many drivers barely seem to look as far as the car in front!
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
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