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Thread: 'Patina' vs 'Knackered'?

  1. #1
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    'Patina' vs 'Knackered'?

    I'm struck in many older watch photos that what some collectors and sellers describe as 'patina' looks, to my 3 decade-plus military eye, as incompetent/neglectful equipment husbandry ... and a big fail.

    An example, 'patina' or utterly ruined and in need of overhaul?


    In a military context, I would be quite judgemental about the professionalism of someone wearing a watch in that state. In a civvy context, I'm just left wondering- why?
    Last edited by Brauner Hund; 30th March 2021 at 12:48.

  2. #2
    I wonder what caused that?

    Yes, some patina can be attractive but the overuse of terms such as 'tropical dial' for a totally ruined dial are often no more than optimistic seller's wishful thinking.

  3. #3
    Looks like a tiny critter used the dial as a lav.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    Looks like a tiny critter used the dial as a lav.
    :D indeed!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by davide View Post
    I wonder what caused that?

    Yes, some patina can be attractive but the overuse of terms such as 'tropical dial' for a totally ruined dial are often no more than optimistic seller's wishful thinking.
    Yes, the term 'tropical confused me for a while - it wasn't an option offered when I bought my first 16710 in 1990, had I missed something? Amazing that a failure of finish on an expensive watch can be re-presented as something mystical and supposedly desireable! 

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brauner Hund View Post
    Yes, the term 'tropical confused me for a while - it wasn't an option offered when I bought my first 16710 in 1990, had I missed something? Amazing that a failure of finish on an expensive watch can be re-presented as something mystical and supposedly desireable! 
    Tropical isn't a failure of finish.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Tropical isn't a failure of finish.
    Useful. How would you describe batches whose finishes have inconsistently deteriorated under UV?
    Last edited by Brauner Hund; 30th March 2021 at 14:05.

  8. #8
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brauner Hund View Post
    Useful. How would you describe batches whose finishes have inconsistently deteriorated under UV?
    Spider.


    Sent using Tapatalk. Excuse the lack of apostrophes.

  9. #9
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    Personally I'd want to see the movement and hear the explanation. There are as many reasons for wearing a watch as there are watches. Personally I always take great pleasure in the juxtaposition of a battered watch with perfect innards.

  10. #10
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    A useful article here, explaining, for those who are unaware, that tropical dials are a result of a defective (ie UV unstable) finish... the fact that the defective finish has become fashionable to some is a modern trend.

    "A small handful of dial suppliers in Switzerland used paint which had a chemical manufacturing defect that was not as UV-resistant as was assumed."

    https://www.ablogtowatch.com/tropica...ration-expert/

  11. #11
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    Back to 'patina' now being an anything-goes euphemism for knackered or neglected, I'd agree that a watch that was smashed up a bit due to having been used to stop a runaway train full of orphans is one thing, but most have no such story...
    Last edited by Brauner Hund; 30th March 2021 at 15:36.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brauner Hund View Post
    I'm struck in many older watch photos that what some collectors and sellers describe as 'patina' looks, to my 3 decade-plus military eye, as incompetent/neglectful equipment husbandry ... and a big fail.

    An example, 'patina' or utterly ruined and in need of overhaul?


    In a military context, I would be quite judgemental about the professionalism of someone wearing a watch in that state. In a civvy context, I'm just left wondering- why?
    The condition of the dial is a result of water ingress usually caused by an unscrewed crown. A water-logged watch would not be fit for purpose and would have been exchanged for a serviceable watch there and then, after which it would most likely have been left in stores to deteriorate further before eventually being written off by MOD. Years later the watch turns up in a military equipment surplus sale and is snapped by a collector attracted in part to the 'wabi' of the dial.

    Note: This watch is a 1992 issue, the second most sought after of SBSs'. The collector may have thought it better to retain the original dial rather than replace the dial and risk losing value on the watch. 'Each to his own' as they say.

    Terry

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    The condition of the dial is a result of water ingress usually caused by an unscrewed crown. A water-logged watch would not be fit for purpose and would have been exchanged for a serviceable watch there and then, after which it would most likely have been left in stores to deteriorate further before eventually being written off by MOD. Years later the watch turns up in a military equipment surplus sale and is snapped by a collector attracted in part to the 'wabi' of the dial.

    Note: This watch is a 1992 issue, the second most sought after of SBSs'. The collector may have thought it better to retain the original dial rather than replace the dial and risk losing value on the watch. 'Each to his own' as they say.

    Terry
    Yup, an entirely feasible potential chain of events.

    As to the 'now' ... as you say, each to his own, but... :D

  14. #14
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I am a fan of what some might say ‘knackered’. One way to look at it is uniqueness. You are unlikely to see another identical watch. It also tells a tale, watches used for their intended purpose rather than investment potential. The SBS shown is a well known example of a very rare watch, I would be happy to add it to my collection.
    Over the last year or so my newer watches have not got worn, they lack the character of older watches - most of them are older than I am.

  15. #15
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    I buy in to patina, for some models.
    My Navitimer "Twinjet" has not been cosseted. The pvd is quite worn in places, and there is a plethora of scratches to the case, lugs, crystal etc. But it is part of the piece's charms to me. Also I have no qualms over wearing it for everyday tasks
    An aded bonus is that it is a big 'un (though I don't totally subscribe to the theory that it was aimed at airline pilots with poor eyesight!) so I have no difficulty in reading t, which was not the case with my previous "norman size" Twinjet.



  16. #16
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    I buy in to patina, for some models.
    My Navitimer "Twinjet" has not been cosseted. The pvd is quite worn in places, and there is a plethora of scratches to the case, lugs, crystal etc. But it is part of the piece's charms to me. Also I have no qualms over wearing it for everyday tasks
    An aded bonus is that it is a big 'un (though I don't totally subscribe to the theory that it was aimed at airline pilots with poor eyesight!) so I have no difficulty in reading t, which was not the case with my previous "norman size" Twinjet.


    I'd say that was worn, not knackered.

    I often look at vintage Navitimers and the number that look as though the dials have water damage and yet are still offered for £4-5K amazes me.

    Personally, I don't mind an older watch with some wear (the PVD on my Breil Manta is gently worn away in places, but not scratched or dinged), but people presenting badly damaged watches as somehow 'more interesting' than a well looked after example are just chancing their arms, imo.

    If people are daft enough to buy into that, though, that's fine - Everyone's happy.

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

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