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Thread: Issued Omega SM300 story.

  1. #1
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Issued Omega SM300 story.

    A bit of background, I went to a private school, not a posh one, but one that primarily had forces kids in it, back when there was a generous grant available for forces personnel and their families for such things to help maintain a consistent education for children that usually moved from camp to camp every 3 years or so, Ive kept in touch with a lot of my mates from there and in the early part of the year, one of those mates made a Facebook post, 'anyone know anything about watches, is it worth getting this repaired and whats it worth?' and posted a photo of a sorry looking SM300 missing its bezel, a relumed dial etc, the story is that his dad wore it in the Falklands war ( that was a mad time when I was at school as a lot of pupils dads were deployed there at the time so we all gathered around a small telly to watch the news as it unfolded) and lost the bezel there, he was a Para so my pal doesn't know how he ended up with the Navy issued watch. I gave him the usual advice in the thread and by PM, don't get it 'restored', at most, polish the acrylic by hand, don't sell it to anyone who gets in touch, its a very valuable watch and worth north of 10k but hard to say exactly etc etc. He was amazed that it could be that valuable but didn't have the means to source a bezel after I told him how much they could cost. Fast forward to this week and I get another PM, he had put it to a auction, I didn't ask which one and would I have a guess how much it made, I was pretty far off at £15k, the hammer price ended at £25k, he was gobsmacked and very happy, so was I for him, until I asked about the fees etc, he will end up with £15.5 k, which is a lot of cash for something he had no clue about, but I think thats pretty scandalous! Sure the fees were transparent before he listed it, but bloody hell! Anyway, he's happy which is all that matters, I can't help feeling he should have asked me about finding a specialist dealer first.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  2. #2
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Excellent story and it doesn't get any better than a military issued SM300. Those things are on a par with the Milsub in rarity terms, although a little behind price wise. Someone got a great deal buying that watch, if you look on Chrono24 etc most are north of £50k.

    A bezel and the correct insert shouldn't be too hard to find and after a good clean up that watch will look superb. The money is in that dial and case back.

    I don't think the dial is relumed. A lot of military issued SM300s are that colour and the all important pin pricks at 12 and 6 look good. I think that is an untouched dial.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 21st October 2020 at 11:06.

  3. #3
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Its a nice example.
    A new bezel will be about 3k I would have thought - if you can find one.
    I am glad the owner good a good price but the fees are eye watering.
    I think I would prefer one of these over a 5517. (although if someone as one they want to give me I won't grumble)

  4. #4
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Excellent story and it doesn't get any better than a military issued SM300. Those things are on a par with the Milsub in rarity terms, although a little behind price wise. Someone got a great deal buying that watch, if you look on Chrono24 etc most are north of £50k.

    A bezel and the correct insert shouldn't be too hard to find and after a good clean up that watch will look superb. The money is in that dial and case back.

    I don't think the dial is relumed. A lot of military issued SM300s are that colour and the all important pin pricks at 12 and 6 look good. I think that is an untouched dial.

    Thats interesting, thank you.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  5. #5
    That is a great story indeed.

  6. #6
    Journeyman
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    Great watch, great pics and great story.

    Thanks for sharing.

    But those fees?

    Whoa!

  7. #7
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
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    Great watch and equally great story, that's a nice windfall for him. Shame he couldn't have kept it, extra special being his father's and worn in action. I guess that's the trouble when things carry such monetary value.

    Those fees!!!

  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    Good story, but yes the fees....

  9. #9
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    That's a great watch, and good that he got more than he was expecting, although the fees are scandalous.
    I met up with someone a while back who had his father's issued SM300. It was all complete, albeit with a slightly loose crown.
    His father was not in the forces at all, he ran a night club, and he got this SM300 in the 70s when one of the lads in a group swapped his watch for a bottle of whiskey from the bar. The club was in Portsmouth.
    Expensive bottle
    Dave

  10. #10
    Master
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    This was picked up over on OF. They too came to the conclusion that the watch was straight and original.

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/roya.../#post-1629482

  11. #11
    Master
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    Great personal story but horrendous fees. It's a pity he couldn't have maximised his return, but if he's happy that's the main thing.
    I'm old enough to remember issued Omegas being sold, by a dealer, on Exchange & Mart (probably early '70s?). In those days the issued markings were considered to devalue the watch somewhat.

  12. #12
    Great story and watch.
    As you say, shame he didn't seek your advice on the sale as he might not have had those horrendous fees.

  13. #13
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    So, on a £25k hammer price, the seller has paid nearly £10k in auction fees. Does the buyer also pay the auction something on top of the £25k? If so, how much is that likely to have been?

  14. #14
    The most amazing part of this story is the fee, and that's just the seller's fee!

    At least your friend got £15k out of nowhere which is nice. Could have got s better price if not described as relumed maybe but I'm sure anyone bidding knew their onions as referenced on the OF.

  15. #15
    Journeyman engrneil's Avatar
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    Awesome story....thanks for sharing

    Sent from my SM-G960U using TZ-UK mobile app

  16. #16
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    had my eye on it ...nice story

    and by coincidence I also had my eye on this bezel which finished Monday think it was correct to model

    did 175 Euros....

    https://www.catawiki.com/l/41417275-...isex-1970-1979

  17. #17
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    So, on a £25k hammer price, the seller has paid nearly £10k in auction fees. Does the buyer also pay the auction something on top of the £25k? If so, how much is that likely to have been?
    Yes, supposedly 31%. So the seller took £15K, the buyer paid £32K, nice work for the auctioneer if you can get it...
    Last edited by Padders; 21st October 2020 at 13:02.

  18. #18
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments, interesting stuff!
    Cheers..
    Jase

  19. #19
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    That is ridiculous fees, most auction houses I know charge 10-15% to the seller and 20-30% +VAT to the buyer, a good auction house will get you a bigger bid but there is no point if they end up taking more through the fees.

  20. #20
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I notice on the salesroom photo the minute hand almost hides the dial lume burn that is more evident in my photo, I wonder if that was deliberate?
    Cheers..
    Jase

  21. #21
    Journeyman
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    Class story and watch. Shame about the ridiculous fees he had to pay


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  22. #22
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    had my eye on it ...nice story

    and by coincidence I also had my eye on this bezel which finished Monday think it was correct to model

    did 175 Euros....

    https://www.catawiki.com/l/41417275-...isex-1970-1979
    This is a damn handy attachment for anyone wanting to check out which insert is needed.

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/seam...-bezels.36357/

  23. #23
    Great post, thanks.

    I'm sure the folk over at mwr would be interested in this, I've shared link over there.

    https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...598#post360598

  24. #24
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Great post, thanks.

    I'm sure the folk over at mwr would be interested in this, I've shared link over there.

    https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...598#post360598

    Thanks Rev, you will have to convey my slight embarrassment at thinking the dial had had a relume, which it apparently doesn't.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Thanks Rev, you will have to convey my slight embarrassment at thinking the dial had had a relume, which it apparently doesn't.
    No embarrassment at that. These are rare watches and only a few very specialised people are knowledgeable about them. It might well be a redial for all I know. The experts there will almost certainly take a view but whether they agree one way or the other is an open question!

  26. #26
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Crikey I remember when these struggled to make £5k.

    As for auction houses, they and insolvency practitioners are absolute bandits. MOFOS!

  27. #27
    As I expected the mwr lot make some good points

    https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...598#post360598

  28. #28
    Craftsman gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    That is ridiculous fees, most auction houses I know charge 10-15% to the seller and 20-30% +VAT to the buyer, a good auction house will get you a bigger bid but there is no point if they end up taking more through the fees.
    I agree. He should be paying 8%-10% plus VAT. Purchaser pays the higher fees. I really hope he is not being diddled.

    Anyway nice watch and pleased for him.

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by gerard View Post
    I agree. He should be paying 8%-10% plus VAT. Purchaser pays the higher fees. I really hope he is not being diddled.

    Anyway nice watch and pleased for him.

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
    from the mwr thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatown View Post
    According to their website the seller fees at that auction house are 18% plus vat so I make 21.6% of the hammer price £5400 so his mate should have received £19600. He should challenge big time it if he's only getting £15.5k

    If allowed here's a link to the auctioneers headlines/article about the sale of the watch https://www.richardwinterton.co.uk/l...A325%2C000.htm
    source: https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...uot-from-tz-uk

  30. #30
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Iíll let him know, thanks.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  31. #31
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I just asked him to clarify and got this back:

    Yeah 18% commission and I think 20% tax so total 38% which I think works out at 9500 off the total amount and I just worked it out.

    It sounds like he hasnít had the total from the auction and has made a assumption, I told him that the VAT is on the commission not the sales price, it that right ?
    Cheers..
    Jase

  32. #32
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    So it looks like he did some incorrect íman mathsí and applied the VAT to the sales price, his £15.5 didnít come from the auction, he hasnít had the settlement figure yet, so he is quite pleased he is getting more than he thought, sorry to have misled, Rev, if you could let the MWR lot know they are quite right in the calcs.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I just asked him to clarify and got this back:

    Yeah 18% commission and I think 20% tax so total 38% which I think works out at 9500 off the total amount and I just worked it out.
    It sounds like he hasnít had the total from the auction and has made a assumption, I told him that the VAT is on the commission not the sales price, it that right ?
    The 20% vat charge is on the commission amount only, not the sale price.
    He should get just short of £20k
    Thatís my understanding of it.

    I own an issued SM300 which has the movement which is 1 digit from the one discussed here.
    Last edited by watchlovr; 21st October 2020 at 22:51.

  34. #34
    I'm pleased to hear that the OP's friend is doing better than first thought.

    Can anyone please explain the pin holes in the 6 and 12 lume plots?

  35. #35
    Grand Master
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    I worked with an old boy a few years ago in Indonesia (ex pat Scot who was a marine) he had an issued omega and a comex sea dweller in his "throw" drawer at home!!!!!

  36. #36
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard View Post
    I agree. He should be paying 8%-10% plus VAT. Purchaser pays the higher fees. I really hope he is not being diddled.

    Anyway nice watch and pleased for him.

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
    Should be paying? Ever tried to auction a watch? As per the OP, it is more like 20-25% (inc VAT and fees) for the seller and the same or slightly more for the buyer at most provincial houses inc Fellows etc. Some of the London tier one houses will waive the seller fee if the piece is a very interesting halo piece that can be used for marketing and looks nice on the catalogue cover but the provincial houses really like their pound of flesh. Yes VAT is payable only on the commission and fees, not on the hammer price so in this example, based on the quoted percentages the seller should indeed pocket near £20K.

    I agree the seller should be paying less, but the auction trade begs to differ!
    Last edited by Padders; 22nd October 2020 at 08:29.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dkpw View Post

    Can anyone please explain the pin holes in the 6 and 12 lume plots?
    No one knows for sure, the theory is that the dial manufacturer used pins as positioning guides somehow to line the dial up for applying the lume.
    Donít know why it was only used on these dials.
    Maybe it was always used but this unusual type of lume didnít flow to fill the pin holes in?
    This is as good a theory as any.
    You can see often see tiny pin holes at 6 on non BT dials too, so maybe Iím right?
    There are early BT dials with yellow lume which donít have pin holes, but Iím personally a bit sceptical of these, with reluming being so good nowadays.
    Also, just to make things even trickier, the relumers can now do pinholes!
    Last edited by watchlovr; 22nd October 2020 at 11:29.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by watchlovr View Post
    No one knows for sure, the theory is that the dial manufacturer used pins as positioning guides somehow to line the dial up for applying the lume.
    Donít know why it was only used on these dials.
    Maybe it was always used but this unusual type of lume didnít flow to fill the pin holes in?
    This is as good a theory as any.
    You can see often see tiny pin holes at 6 on non BT dials too, so maybe Iím right?
    There are early BT dials with yellow lume which donít have pin holes, but Iím personally a bit sceptical of these, with reluming being so good nowadays.
    Also, just to make things even trickier, the relumers can now do pinholes!
    Are these dials from Burford rather than Bienne?

  39. #39
    Craftsman gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    Should be paying? Ever tried to auction a watch? As per the OP, it is more like 20-25% (inc VAT and fees) for the seller and the same or slightly more for the buyer at most provincial houses inc Fellows etc. Some of the London tier one houses will waive the seller fee if the piece is a very interesting halo piece that can be used for marketing and looks nice on the catalogue cover but the provincial houses really like their pound of flesh. Yes VAT is payable only on the commission and fees, not on the hammer price so in this example, based on the quoted percentages the seller should indeed pocket near £20K.

    I agree the seller should be paying less, but the auction trade begs to differ!
    I appreciate there are variances which are regional too, I too agree the seller should be paying less.
    As an owner of a auction house it is my opinion the sellers fees quoted are high.

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard View Post
    I appreciate there are variances which are regional too, I too agree the seller should be paying less.
    As an owner of a auction house it is my opinion the sellers fees quoted are high.

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
    Well on that basis I humbly adjust my parting comment above to 'many, but not all in the trade beg to differ'

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