R4 'The Spark':Tim Spector on nutrition, weight loss, diet myths & Covid symptoms

[sundial]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpz ... worth a listen ... may upset calorie counters and vitamin addicts

[Omegamanic]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpz ... worth a listen ... may upset calorie counters and vitamin addicts

I’ll definitely give it a listen.

But, Im not sure why you think this type of thing would upset people like me - but I tell you what, I’ll continue to count calories, and get guaranteed measurable results time after time, again and again. Just like thousands of bodybuilders and physique competitors, and let the rest of the population that want to look for yet another excuse for why they can’t lose weight, or put it all back on again afterwards, watch podcasts and read books about microbiomes ;)

[sundial]

^^^ Bodybuilders are bodybuilders ... and a small % of the world population.

[Omegamanic]

^^^ Bodybuilders are bodybuilders ... and a small % of the world population.

They may well be, but they prove again and again, that actually counting macros provides repeatable, measurable results, that are precise enough to predict that it can be dialled in for the day of competition. A huge percentage of the population could benefit from the studies on their diets and activities, which I’d suggest is vastly greater in number than TS’s twin studies.

What is it that you think TS is selling? Do you think that he has the secret to losing weight on a calorie surplus? Because the way he talks about calorie counting and calorie deficits, you’d think so.

There are only two ways to lose weight. Calorie deficit, or raising activity levels above energy intake; which if you haven’t guessed yet is just another way of saying a calorie deficit - and yet TS says that doesn’t work... no it doesn’t work for most people, because they don’t understand the difference between a extreme diet, and a lifestyle change.

[M4tt]

I'm pretty certain that increasing your metabolic rate without a great deal of additional activity does the trick. It's that you are burning energy, not how you are burning energy that counts. We are complex beasties and there are a lot of ways that we manage homeostasis and allostasis.

Mind you, anyone who claims to have the answer is talking rot. Our understanding of the neural mechanisms of allostasis is similar to our ideas of surgery back when it was practised by the same folks who cut your hair.

[sundial]

They may well be, but they prove again and again, that actually counting macros provides repeatable, measurable results, that are precise enough to predict that it can be dialled in for the day of competition. A huge percentage of the population could benefit from the studies on their diets and activities, which I’d suggest is vastly greater in number than TS’s twin studies.

What is it that you think TS is selling? Do you think that he has the secret to losing weight on a calorie surplus? Because the way he talks about calorie counting and calorie deficits, you’d think so.

There are only two ways to lose weight. Calorie deficit, or raising activity levels above energy intake; which if you haven’t guessed yet is just another way of saying a calorie deficit - and yet TS says that doesn’t work... no it doesn’t work for most people, because they don’t understand the difference between a extreme diet, and a lifestyle change.

TS' nutrition and microbiome studies show that a diverse microbiome boosts the immune system which the body relies on to fight disease ... weight loss is an incidental benefit. His diet recommendations are for Mr and Mrs and Ms 'Average' who tend to eat over-processed foods which compromise their microbiomes. TS is not the only nutritionist who has studied and continues to study the microbiome ... including its relevance to fighting viruses.

And there is no danger of keto flu when a 'healthy microbiome' diet is adopted ... unlike when adopting a low carb diet.

TS is very knowledgable about maintaining an efficient immune system via healthy diet:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/Schools/li...people/spector

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/tim.spector.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Spector

[Omegamanic]

I have no issue with his research, and the benefit of good gut health. My issue is in the sensationalism to sell books, and the way he appears to encourage the newspaper headline excerpts, which are highly misleading.

Mr & Mrs average, need to be in calorie deficit if there are to lose weight. Fact.

It really doesn’t matter if twin A can eat 2500 calories a day and not put in weight, and that twin B can only eat 2400. The fact remains that if they both eat 100 calories more than that they put on weight, and if they eat 100 calories less they lose weight.

Just 100 cals per day, every day, over your expenditure would be over 10lbs of weight gain a year!!! That is the problem. Not microbiomes, but actually understanding that such little amounts add up to substantial differences.

[Jdh1]

For most people, they need to spend less time worrying about what's going on in their stomach and concern themselves with what's going on between their ears.

[sundial]

I have no issue with his research, and the benefit of good gut health. My issue is in the sensationalism to sell books, and the way he appears to encourage the newspaper headline excerpts, which are highly misleading.

Mr & Mrs average, need to be in calorie deficit if there are to lose weight. Fact.

It really doesn’t matter if twin A can eat 2500 calories a day and not put in weight, and that twin B can only eat 2400. The fact remains that if they both eat 100 calories more than that they put on weight, and if they eat 100 calories less they lose weight.

Just 100 cals per day, every day, over your expenditure would be over 10lbs of weight gain a year!!! That is the problem. Not microbiomes, but actually understanding that such little amounts add up to substantial differences.

Not necessarily ... which is the whole point of TS' arguments, which are proved / backed up, by his studies and published papers.

TS did not 'calorie count' to lose his excess weight ... he adjusted his diet to increase his gut microbes' diversity. And he measured his resultant increased gut microbe diversity.

TS's 1133 published papers ... including nutrition and the gut microbiome https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/en/...lications.html

Those who wish to dismiss same might be missing out on ways to e.g. lose weight ... but weight loss is not the only benefit of increasing gut microbe diversity

[Omegamanic]

Are you saying that TS’s in any way suggest that you can lose weight/fat (excluding water weight) when not on a calorie deficit? Because if that’s the case, it’s absolute nonsense!

Just because you don’t count calories didn’t mean you’re not in a deficit. I didn’t have to count calories for years, because I knew off the top of my head what a plate of food and the average contents was.

It’s not hard to eat a healthy diet that is under you calorific requirements - it just takes a little planning.

I think too many people are looking at the highlighted claims from TS’s research without looking at the details or the reality.

[sundial]

Are you saying that TS’s in any way suggest that you can lose weight/fat (excluding water weight) when not on a calorie deficit? Because if that’s the case, it’s absolute nonsense!

Just because you don’t count calories didn’t mean you’re not in a deficit. I didn’t have to count calories for years, because I knew off the top of my head what a plate of food and the average contents was.

It’s not hard to eat a healthy diet that is under you calorific requirements - it just takes a little planning.

I think too many people are looking at the highlighted claims from TS’s research without looking at the details or the reality.

Your denials are OK with me and to be expected ... I knew this post would upset the calorie counters ... TS' evidence is available for all to read if they care to investigate and read his books thoroughly ... If TS' evidence / findings / proofs / published papers upset and annoy calorie counters so be it ... His books are not just about weight loss.

TS' own weight loss after following an improved / diverse microbiome diet is well documented.

Furthermore, TS' 'Twins Study' (15000 twins) and his Covid Symptom Tracker App are providing valuable data about Covid infections and the whys and wherefores of 'long Covid' ... his MBE was awarded for his services to the Covid 19 response

He is a credible scientist and his research data is not 'nonsense'

[Omegamanic]

My denials lol

I think you are seriously missing the point.

I’ve just spent a few hours today reading various of Tim Spector’s work, or work in which he is named. Not one, let me repeat that, NOT ONE has provided any evidence that microbiomes, or any other factor, will aid weight/fat loss in the absence of a calorie/energy intake deficit - provided you take that deficit as an individual requirement, and not in comparison to another person, or a twin. I think that’s a very important point. If you’ve read a paper that suggests otherwise, then please link it.

Is it possible to eat a balanced varied diet and not count calorie, and still lose weight. Well of course it is. Provided that healthy balanced diet also results in an overall energy/calorie deficit.

What his research suggest to me is the microbiomes can play a part in how our bodies regulate our hunger, and possibly our diet itself when uncontrolled. Well if people didn’t already know about leptin and ghrelin, and the factors that might affect them, then I can understand why this might be surprising to them.

He is big on not limiting yourself to fad or extreme diets and ones that are cutting out a variety of food types, as this can cause changes in gut flora. I’m fully on board with his views on that.

- but, it does not in any way confirm weight/loss in the absence of a calorie deficit - which is ABSOLUTE NONSENCE.

Also his statements such as:

Asked why people do lose weight when restricting calories Professor Spector said: 'Yes obviously we know if you starve you don't have calories therefore you lose weight, but the idea that you can measure it accurately, that you can go and every day tick off those calories [is wrong].
'The reason it doesn't work is that they're very hard to measure and everyone has a different requirement.'
I FFS - starving! Dropping a few calories a day is hardly starving yourself. & as for stating that it doesn’t work because it’s hard. Not only is he wrong wrong, and yes it can be hard - but it’s not that bloody hard, and unless you are eating processed foods or in cafes and restaurants all the time, it’s pretty bloody easy. if it wasn’t then why would every competitive athlete use it as a basis of their diet and training?

He stated: 'I believe in exercise is good for you and reduces your risk of many diseases, but what it doesn't do for 90 per cent of people is make them lose any weight because it simply changes your metabolic rate so that it will slow down.

'So you might burn some calories exercising, but afterwards, your body's reset. Again, and your body's basically slowed down to such an extent that just having a biscuit with your tea you probably wipe out all that exercise.'

Again, with the exception of some research on cardiovascular exercise only (not weight bearing exercise), he’s wrong! There are so many papers that show NEAT after exercise that he’s either ill informed, using the results of his “we just asked people to answer a load of questions, and these were the results”, which quite a few of his papers consist of, or he has no personal involvement in those research areas and discounts them for his own reasons. His point of eating biscuits afterwards would wipe out the exercise - you don’t say, so I can’t eat all the cream cakes and donuts after I e had a 30 minute run. Thanks for that Tim, revolutionary stuff.

It’s a shame that sites like MyFitnessPal, that have changed the lives of so many people, may as well just shut down, and stop their a nonsense, because dispite all the evidence to the contrary, Tim says it doesn’t work.

& I’m the one in denial...

[Ventura]

For most people, they need to spend less time worrying about what's going on in their stomach and concern themselves with what's going on between their ears.

This ! Without fixing your head, and mentality you won't keep the weight off in the long run.

[Omegamanic]

This ! Without fixing your head, and mentality you won't keep the weight off in the long run.

Probably very true. It’s also difficult to fix the ingrained bad habits of growing up in a household with no nutritional knowledge, and the 70’s push for convenience and processed/packaged products. It’s far too easy to fall back into old habits.

[MartynJC (UK)]

You need to marry a Nutritional Therapist - at least that helps.