Jury service. A bit of a rant!

[Andyg]

Earlier this month we received a letter addressed to my son (aged 18) requiring him to do jury service at the start of December.

We appealed on a number of grounds.

1) He is currently in his first term at university and this would impact his education.
2) His university is over 100 miles away
3) His university is in area which has a high Covid infection rate.

Our appeal was rejected.

I then rang them directly to again explain the situation, but was told he either had to attend (or face a summons and £1000 fine) or to change the date to some time in 2021 (which may or may not be accepted) In respect to Covid, they informed me, that my son should assume the Courts are open, but they would advise him of any changes with little or no notice.

Anyway, my son has decided to leave Uni two weeks early (we will collect him and his laundry) so he get home and do his duty (assuming of course they don’t cancel it). However I cannot help feeling that this a stupid for a number of reasons.

1) He is 18 - so not an idea candidate as a jury (in my view).
2) It will directly impact his studies, irrespective that he is paying rent for rooms he is unable to use. Plus he will miss the end of term party.
3) He will move from a high risk Convid zone to a low risk area, but will certainly not be social distancing.

I even offered to be his substitute because in 60 years neither me nor my wife have been selected for jury service, but alas not.

The only upside is that he will come home early and gain experience of British Courts/Legal system without being in the dock.

Still very annoying, but rant over.

[seadog1408]

Why acknowledge the letter?

[seabiscuit]

I did jury service a few years ago. The case started on a Friday morning and had collapsed by the following Monday morning. A few years later I got another letter about jury selection. I just ignored it and nothing happened. If I’d been pulled up about it I’d have denied ever receiving the letter.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I do think that is rather ridiculous, particularly under the current circumstances.

I've never been asked to do jury service either (in my late 40's now). I presume it is simply a lottery?

I also agree that 18 is too young to be a juror in my opinion also. I don't know if there is anything else you can do though.

[village]

Did you ask for him to be excused from jury duty completely or did you ask for his date to be deferred?
If it was the former then you got the answer expected. If you asked for a deferral then I’m very surprised you didn’t get one as I’ve never heard of it being refused.

[Saint-Just]

I also agree that 18 is too young to be a juror in my opinion also. I don't know if there is anything else you can do though.

I disagree. He can vote, he can serve in the Forces or the Police, there is no reason he can’t be a juror.

And yes, I believe it is randomised and that is also why Andy can’t replace him.

I am also surprised he couldn’t differ it though.

That said, the party excuse is a new low.

[village]

I disagree. He can vote, he can serve in the Forces or the Police, there is no reason he can’t be a juror.

.........

That said, the party excuse is a new low.

I agree regards the age thing.

I missed the comment about the party. Ridiculous comment and if it was actually used as an excuse I hope it was laughed at.

[thieuster]

Learning new things here about the British Court and Justice system.

I shouldn't express my opinion being a foreigner, but with a 19 y/o son at the uni, I can relate to your situation. I think that your arguments are (from a father's point of view) are valid. Simple, I would pay the fine for him.

Again, my opinion is not an expression of what I think think about the Court system.

Menno

[Peck]

...why Andy can’t replace him

What a relief!

[Andyg]

I disagree. He can vote, he can serve in the Forces or the Police, there is no reason he can’t be a juror.

And yes, I believe it is randomised and that is also why Andy can’t replace him.

I am also surprised he couldn’t differ it though.

That said, the party excuse is a new low.

It wasn’t used as an excuse.

[MTM84]

Why acknowledge the letter?

This. I’ve binned a few over the years and heard nothing more. Each to their own.

[davidj54]

I did jury service about 12 years ago. It was a pretty turgid affair. Had to go through X-ray machines to get in and out, then you go into a pool with all the other jurors, and they pick 12 of you for each case as they come up. You’re not allowed to leave the building once you’re in, they give you lunch tokens. You could in theory spend a fortnight there and not have your name pulled out of the hat. I sat around for 3 days reading my book (pre smartphone) and making small talk with fellow jurors
then got called up on the Thursday, sat on a moderately interesting but fairly run of the mill affray and assault case (fight outside a pub) which was over by the next Monday afternoon. Sat around for a few more days before being sent home Thursday lunchtime and given the Friday off as by then they wouldn’t call us again as our two weeks were nearly up.

Some people will get a juicy case or spend the whole fortnight in court, but for most I think it’s not nearly as exciting as people imagine, you’re mostly just killing time waiting for a call - it’s like spending 2 weeks in an airport lounge!

[acg]

My parents (in their 70s) have never been called up.

My partner and I about 6 times between us in 15 years

I was picked for a case that fell apart within a couple of hours. The accused and defendant left hand in hand and the sheriff then lectured the jury in the perils of drink and youth.

I've ignored the last couple of letters

[southerner101]

He’s no more qualified than you or I. Good for him to get it done now. Pain in the arse for working professionals with families etc.
I did my service about 5 years ago now. Just over 2 weeks! Majority of cases that pass the courts are of a sex offence nature (sure I read that some where) so it’s not enjoyable in the slightest. I was selected for a 6 week case which was a gang rape case which had video evidence.. luckily as I was walking to the jury’s bench a guy I went to school with who was a junior defence barrister at the time had to make the court aware and back I turned! ... then the next case, another sex offence in the form of a class room assistant grooming two boys, who were now two young men.
Good friend of mine had to do it soon after me and he was done and dusted in a morning.

[Reeny]

Check to see if there are any travel expenses allowances available, and state that the bus & train service are unavailable at 4am in the morning when he will need to set off to court for a 9am start, and do they want to have the receipts submitted for the 200-mile round trip by private taxi.
I am sure there is an allowance available for public transport travel.

[Reeny]

I even offered to be his substitute because in 60 years neither me nor my wife have been selected for jury service, but alas not.

Andy - maybe they are unaware of your balanced and unbiased views on the significant problems affecting our society today.

[oldoakknives]

Earlier this month we received a letter addressed to my son (aged 18) requiring him to do jury service at the start of December.

We appealed on a number of grounds.

1) He is currently in his first term at university and this would impact his education.

I'm sure a week or two at the most wouldn't be a game changer.

2) His university is over 100 miles away

2 or 3 hours away then.

3) His university is in area which has a high Covid infection rate.

Hardly surprising if there is a university in the area.

Our appeal was rejected.

I then rang them directly to again explain the situation, but was told he either had to attend (or face a summons and £1000 fine) or to change the date to some time in 2021 (which may or may not be accepted) In respect to Covid, they informed me, that my son should assume the Courts are open, but they would advise him of any changes with little or no notice.

Anyway, my son has decided to leave Uni two weeks early (we will collect him and his laundry) so he get home and do his duty (assuming of course they don’t cancel it). However I cannot help feeling that this a stupid for a number of reasons.

1) He is 18 - so not an idea candidate as a jury (in my view).

Jurors should be a mix of society, a younger viewpoint would be a plus.

2) It will directly impact his studies, irrespective that he is paying rent for rooms he is unable to use. Plus he will miss the end of term party.

A week or two probably at the most, and he stays with you so no extra cost involved.


3) He will move from a high risk Convid zone to a low risk area, but will certainly not be social distancing.

No doubt the courts will have social distancing measures in place. What he does outside that is up to him.


I even offered to be his substitute because in 60 years neither me nor my wife have been selected for jury service, but alas not.

The only upside is that he will come home early and gain experience of British Courts/Legal system without being in the dock.

Still very annoying, but rant over.

[seabiscuit]

Pretty sure there won’t be an end of term party at his uni, or any other uni, for that matter.

[Templogin]

Return a not guilty decision by post!

[reggie747]

Forward the letter to Lewis Hamilton. He might oblige you with being his #1 superfan ??

[Andyg]

Pretty sure there won’t be an end of term party at his uni, or any other uni, for that matter.

Point missed I feel. He has already missed out on Freshers, he will continue to pay £156/week for his room whilst doing jury service, he will miss out on any activities the university, room mates, etc plan in the run up to Christmas through no fault of his own, simply because the Jury service are not prepared to delay his call up until his education is finished. They will after all have another 60 years (hopefully) to call him up.

[village]

Point missed I feel. He has already missed out on Freshers, he will continue to pay £156/week for his room whilst doing jury service, he will miss out on any activities the university, room mates, etc plan in the run up to Christmas through no fault of his own, simply because the Jury service are not prepared to delay his call up until his education is finished. They will after all have another 60 years (hopefully) to call him up.

You haven’t clarified yet whether you attempted to get his jury service cancelled altogether or have asked for it to be deferred.

[MakeColdplayHistory]

Jury's should be made up of a cross-section of adult society. I wouldn't want a jury of twelve 18 year olds but one on the panel will provide balance to some of the old duffers.

So sorry he can't make the party.

[Wolfie]

Agree with most points you made Andy - other point 1 - jurors need to represent the whole of your society…. I’m sure he’ll offer some good insight

I suppose at least he can use it as a leaning experience

Maybe he could do his online studies, when he’s sat around waiting for things to happen?

[Andyg]

You haven’t clarified yet whether you attempted to get his jury service cancelled altogether or have asked for it to be deferred.

We asked for it to be delayed until after his Uni (so 2024), but that was considered to long. I did suggest to my son that he asked for a deferment until the summer holiday, but he rightly said that would prevent him from sorting a summer holiday/job without having fixed dates for his jury service. Hence decided to get it over and done with now.

[Passenger]

You gotta do what you gotta do, unless you don’t.

[oldoakknives]

Point missed I feel. He has already missed out on Freshers, he will continue to pay £156/week for his room whilst doing jury service, he will miss out on any activities the university, room mates, etc plan in the run up to Christmas through no fault of his own, simply because the Jury service are not prepared to delay his call up until his education is finished. They will after all have another 60 years (hopefully) to call him up.

Most people would have to pay rent/mortgage whilst doing jury service.

[P9CLY]

Called up to do jury service 4 times....

[deepreddave]

In relation to the OP's point my comment is only that I think 18 is probably too young for most young people to be making potentially life changing decisions for others. I fully appreciate this is a very general statement and that some 18yr olds could be more than capable.

I'll never forget my jury experience at 49yrs of age. We were unable to reach a majority decision as 3 young ladies, early twenties, persistently refused to overlook basing their decision substantially on evidence which the judge specifically directed us to ignore. There really should be an IQ test to sit on a jury.

[GOAT]

I’ve done JS twice and agree with most of your points
Only comment I’d make is that despite his lack of life experience at 18 I’ll bet he’s got more common sense than some of the utter retards I’ve encountered on juries.

[Saint-Just]

It’s called doing your duty. It’s not ‘at your convenience’.
If it had been during the summer holidays you would still be moaning that it spoiling his hard earned fun.

[NikGixer750]

I did jury service about 10 years ago, at the same time I was doing my MBA whilst working. It was perfect for me, I spent 2 weeks in a quiet room doing my coursework whilst getting paid from work! I did 2 cases, 1 was a fight and the other a dreadful child abuse case from the 60's. The guy was found guilty but was in his 80's at the time.

We never had to stay overnight and the worse thing is we left the same way the public did, which I thought was a tad risky. The defendant in the assault case family clearly saw us all sat in the jury box then we had to walk past them outside as we left!

Some aspects were a total farce, if it wasn't for my coursework sitting around idle for 2 weeks would have been painful. When we broke to deliberate for the assault case, one of the guy's jury service was due to end but he wanted to stay longer so just kept disagreeing with us all so the case ran into the next day. I did get called 1 hour before the end of my final day but I just explained to the judge that I had a wedding to attend the following day and he let me leave.

I did defer the first request then got called again shortly afterwards.

Makes no sense for your son to be called especially when he is 100 miles away!

[Man of Kent]

I did it at 18. I enjoyed it, and felt I contributed to the process as much as anyone.
Everyone should do it. Being at uni was no excuse for me either, and it shouldn't be for anyone else.

[chrisparker]

I did it at 18. I enjoyed it, and felt I contributed to the process as much as anyone.
Everyone should do it. Being at uni was no excuse for me either, and it shouldn't be for anyone else.

Agree. I too did it at 18/19. Fresh out of college and just started my first job. I enjoyed the experience and certainly contributed as much or more than anyone else on the jury.

[number2]

''thy fate is the common fate of all, Into each life some rain must fall'',

[ach5]

and certainly contributed as much or more than anyone else on the jury.

100% of people consider themselves ‘above average’ (TFIC!)

[wileeeeeey]

End of term party? Are you serious?

[Kevin]

Earlier this month we received a letter addressed to my son (aged 18) requiring him to do jury service at the start of December.

We appealed on a number of grounds.

1) He is currently in his first term at university and this would impact his education.
2) His university is over 100 miles away
3) His university is in area which has a high Covid infection rate.

Our appeal was rejected.

I then rang them directly to again explain the situation, but was told he either had to attend (or face a summons and £1000 fine) or to change the date to some time in 2021 (which may or may not be accepted) In respect to Covid, they informed me, that my son should assume the Courts are open, but they would advise him of any changes with little or no notice.

Anyway, my son has decided to leave Uni two weeks early (we will collect him and his laundry) so he get home and do his duty (assuming of course they don’t cancel it). However I cannot help feeling that this a stupid for a number of reasons.

1) He is 18 - so not an idea candidate as a jury (in my view).
2) It will directly impact his studies, irrespective that he is paying rent for rooms he is unable to use. Plus he will miss the end of term party.
3) He will move from a high risk Convid zone to a low risk area, but will certainly not be social distancing.

I even offered to be his substitute because in 60 years neither me nor my wife have been selected for jury service, but alas not.

The only upside is that he will come home early and gain experience of British Courts/Legal system without being in the dock.

Still very annoying, but rant over.

What has it got to do with you?

Your son is over 18 it has nothing to do with you
What is all this WE got a letter and WE appealed ?

I am glad you weren’t allowed to substitute for your son
We had a control freak on the jury I was on who tried to tell everyone he would be the foreman of the jury.
We told him we would vote and he was so pissed off When he didn’t get the job!

[Papa Hotel]

What has it got to do with you?

Your son is over 18 it has nothing to do with you
What is all this WE got a letter and WE appealed ?

I am glad you weren’t allowed to substitute for your son
We had a control freak on the jury I was on who tried to tell everyone he would be the foreman of the jury.
We told him we would vote and he was so pissed off When he didn’t get the job!

Don't be an arse. Man tries to help son, what a controversy!

[SydR]

I’ve never been called but son has been called twice and my daughter once.

My son has just turned 19 when first called. I left him to it.

As for missing the end of term party! Surely you wrote that in jest?!

[Saint-Just]

As for missing the end of term party! Surely you wrote that in jest?!

Andy does many things but he doesn't do jest.

[Andyg]

I’ve never been called but son has been called twice and my daughter once.

My son has just turned 19 when first called. I left him to it.

As for missing the end of term party! Surely you wrote that in jest?!

It’s is first term at Uni and was looking forward to having a Christmas party with the other 9 students who share his flat, but that wasn’t the reason for the appeal.

He is paying 9k a year for his education (about 34 weeks worth), but is losing 2 weeks (assuming of course it’s not a trial that runs over a few months, I which case it will be much more), plus the £158/weeks for a room he cannot even occupy. It just seems unfair on him especially given the number of people currently on furlough at the moment.

As for those willing to judge his commitment to doing his bit for the community, he just completed his DoE Gold, for which he has done over 100 hours unpaid charity service in the past 12 months.

[Kevin]

As for those willing to judge his commitment to doing his bit for the community, he just completed his DoE Gold, for which he has done over 100 hours unpaid charity service in the past 12 months.

I don't think anyone has made any comment about your son or his commitment

[ktmog6uk]

i was called about 15 years ago, basically sat in a room reading for about 5 hours a day for a week as every case went to plea bargain. never got to a courtroom.

[ralphy]

I don't think anyone has made any comment about your son or his commitment

I don't think so either.

As a factor in this rant is about the cost of the rent in the private sector, accommodation in the halls of residence would have been a better financial choice - assuming there is a hall of residence.

R

[catflem]

I got called within a year of moving from France to NE Scotland..........they were obviously very short of law abiding people up there

Luckily the wife was working as a court officer in the same court I was called to, so I was excused.

[thieuster]

It’s is first term at Uni and was looking forward to having a Christmas party with the other 9 students who share his flat, but that wasn’t the reason for the appeal.

He is paying 9k a year for his education (about 34 weeks worth), but is losing 2 weeks (assuming of course it’s not a trial that runs over a few months, I which case it will be much more), plus the £158/weeks for a room he cannot even occupy. It just seems unfair on him especially given the number of people currently on furlough at the moment.

As for those willing to judge his commitment to doing his bit for the community, he just completed his DoE Gold, for which he has done over 100 hours unpaid charity service in the past 12 months.

So it will cost him: 9K/34*2+2x158=845 gbp, travel costs not included. And the fine is 1000 gbp?

Put it on a 'scale': civic life (civic duty) vs academic life. It costs about the same. Apart from that, I would not be too sure that the Christmas-party-with-10 will happen under these circumstances.

M.

[ryanb741]

I've done it 3 times (and I'm 43). Twice at Isleworth Crown Court when I lived in Acton and once at Kingston Crown Court.

The Isleworth cases were predominately Heathrow related drug smuggling cases. Kingston I can't really go into detail on.

[thegreatdogwood]

I've done it 3 times (and I'm 43). Twice at Isleworth Crown Court when I lived in Acton and once at Kingston Crown Court.

The Isleworth cases were predominately Heathrow related drug smuggling cases. Kingston I can't really go into detail on.

I used to live in Isleworth.

Now I'm in Winchester, it's a tier 1 court and the bit I particularly object to is being paraded in front of a judge some of which try to belittle you even if you provide a perfectly valid reason why you can't spare 12 weeks to serve on some of the long trials. In fact a lot of the trials there last longer than the 2 weeks, so you spend the time asking to be put up for shorter trials (no sir - it is random selection) and being made to feel bad about spending your time asking to be excused from long trials.

[Rodder]

Surely it would have come better from your son. I certainly won’t be making phone calls like this on behalf of my children when they’re 18.