Around 2005 I was buying them quite often from the ADs and selling them same day for 1k more I think I did this 6 times and no matter how much I wanted too have one it just wasn’t manly enough for me.... I still have a pre ceramic black the ex wife has a pre ceramic white and the new chick is wearing my rrp ceramic black..... I’m happy with my SD43 though.
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With Rolex it's always about the price, the return on investment, yadda yadda yadda. I'd get a Zenith De Luca. Cooler watch by far.
I was always underwhelmed by the steel Daytona - however I love my yellow gold/green dial Daytona.
Photos don’t do it justice- in the correct sunlight everything about it looks fantastic.
The way prices are going I think even paying over odds at a grey dealers wouldn’t be a decision you’d regret
down the line
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I have never owned a Daytona, but my brother-in-law has a white dial example and I’ve tried it on several times. They are not for me. I found it too small and dainty, the dial seemed crowded and like a few others have mentioned, I did not find it all that easy to read.
Underwhelming.
Simon
The Daytona is a fine, nicely proportioned watch, with typical Rolex build quality and an excellent movement.
However, I have little desire to own one and no truck with the hype - whether the modern incarnation or over-priced vintage models.
As a chronograph, I prefer the Speedmaster Moonwatch (which I own) or the 38mm Zenith El Primero Chronomaster (which I probably will own).
Previous gen Daytona a modern classic and my choice, I prefer over any current lineup Rolex
The previous one to that (Zenith 16520 Daytona) looks even better.
Another advantage of the 16520 is that if you are patient and picky enough, you can have a choice between a brushed bracelet or one with PCLs. The main advantage is that the Zenith sub dials are spaced out better and are easier to read.
Agree, it is a better looking, but then people are asking £10k+ more also, I find it hard to justify the difference. Plus, in-house 116520 4130 movement is better than the mod zenith 16520 4030: vertical clutch, hacking, 70hr power reserve vs. lateral clutch, non-hacking, 52hr reserve. Plus solid bracelet with easy link. Heart vs mind for me, this time my mind wins.
I may be very much in the minority, but I prefer the white 116520 over the 16520 - heck I had a choice between both when they were only a few k apart and chose the former.
I do not like the black subdial rings - the Daytona works best when it is as monochromatic as possible. Plus the movement is much better. Sadly it's 'unloved' status has diminished somewhat, but relative to some of its cousins, probably the best value Daytona (and most likely rarer than the 116500).
Any particular reason why the 16523 and 116523 is ‘unloved’?
I agree with you that the 116520 is by far the best value for money and I believe that the push buttons are require less pressure than the 16520.
I know appearance is subjective but most people regard the Zenith 16520 as the best looking Daytona but that is, of course, subjective.
However a sexy appearance on a rare model will make it hard to get and the values will always escalate. It is one of the easiest Rolex to sell at the moment and I can remember when I bought mine in 2016 it took me 5 months to find the model I wanted.
Exactly the same reason in reverse. I just don't like the subdial rings on the 116520. Like you had a choice of both a few years back when there was a £2k difference and opted for the 16520. I much prefer the black Sub dial rings and clearly so do Rolex as they were brought back for the Ceramic white.
Like Mick, I think appearance is everything. If we obsessed about every upgrade why would anyone in their right mind buy a DRSD over the SD43, but give me a DRSD any day of the week.
To me, the joy of vintage is appearance and appreciating what it was when it came out, not what upgrades were available years down the road. Equally, give me a 1675 over the later and improved 16750.
Black dial for me though either way
@Mick - Well regardless of pusher action, having silly screw down pushers - my biggest criticism with the Daytona!
On looks - fully appreciate I'm in the minority with the ring colour! I would say it works better on the 16520 versus the 16500, which frankly is too contrasty.
The black dial probably ages better tbh, doesn't matter which Daytona.
I did.
Picked up a 116520 back in March, paid more than I have ever paid for a watch but the spec was exactly what I had been looking for - white dial, APH (for what it's worth), Chromalight Lume and two documented Rolex services in it's 8 year life.
I love it and it always feels special to wear.
Both lovely watches, but well out of the reach of most people these days. Back in 2016 I bought and sold my Mark 4 White Dial Zenith for £9k and that was reasonable then. This week I was given the possibility of buying a Mark 3 inverted 6 White with the earlier brushed bracelet and the price is more than double what I paid 4 years ago.
The bottom line now is anyone looking for a nice 16520 or 116520 should be prepared to pay close to £20k and more if an earlier rare dial or has box and papers etc. Two things arise here, if you were going to blow £20k on a watch would you buy a steel Daytona and secondly how many have a spare £20k to spend on a steel watch.
Bi metal never loved the same as steel and that goes right through to a most Rolexs collectableSent from my SM-G970F using TZ-UK mobile app
I still reckon the Daytona has one of the best auto chronograph movements around and if you asked me the question 4 years ago, I'd say nothing touches the Daytona, but things have very much changed. Do remember the 4130 is not a very good looking movement! Even under 10k we have movements which can compete. I may list movements below, because enough different styling to suit people.
Ok here goes....
sub 10k - Breitling B01 and Tag's new in house are both pretty good. The latter for example has an 80 hour power reserve. Oh and also Omega's co-axial chronograph. Heck do not knock the 7750 - some of the upgraded movements based on this are really good - look at the new IWC Portuguiser. 'in-house' an upgraded 7750 with a vertical clutch and column wheel. This sort of thing didn't exist 3-4 yrs ago.
10-20k - have to include the new Omega Ed White. Ok not auto, but beautiful. And a watch I've considered, then I remember I don't really like Speedies! Also have to add in Blancpain's chronograph movement which is absolutely brilliant workhouse. GO's is rather nice if thick and have to include Bvlgari's Octo Finnisimo chronograph. I would say finishing wise, all the watches mentioned in this category are better than the Rolex.
20-25k - ok now we're going beyond the grey price of the Daytona, but these watches I've strongly considered as an 'upgrade' - the VC Overseas and the AP Royal Oak chronograph. Both former in particular I've considered the trade option many, many times. What has stopped me? Well finding another Daytona in such awesome condition. If I sell this, I'll never be able to get another one and I still like mine. The upgrade I really seek is a top end hand wound in the mould of Patek's or Lange - just waiting for the Daytona hype train to kick up a notch !
But for anyone looking for a chronograph, many very good options especially if you find the Daytona 'dainty'.
Maybe the title should be 'has anyone recently bought a steel Daytona' (but not at list price). There are examples here of people who have had theirs for years and were lucky enough to have bought them before the price rises of recent times, but has anyone recently bought one of these £20k upwards examples.
Clearly anyone who gets the call would be there in minutes, but it would be interesting to see if anyone has actually taken the plunge on one of the many examples offered by the top Grey dealers.
There is certainly no shortage of examples out there, just check Chrono 24 or any of the dealer websites and there are plenty of 16520 and 116520 available in both Black and White with prices starting in the high teens and drifting up to six figure sums for a Steel Mark 1 Zenith.
I personally wonder if these watches actually sell.
I got my 116520 this year from watches.co.uk in Chiswick at market price just before covid escalated. Somehow it is now worth a bit more than just before covid, but then again we have new colourful oyster perp and 5 digit subs selling/asking much higher even still. The 16520 are mainly selling at 20-35k, some pristine real patrizzi full set are selling for more, as I have been eyeing them on chrono and some of the larger U.K. dealers. 116520 are generally 15-22k so a level or two below.
Bought my 116500LN Daisy at RRP from AD a few months ago. I didn’t necessarily buy as a keeper as i found it quite small (even for me at 6.75”), but I’ll give it a year or so before deciding whether to move it on (at a profit). It’s lovely, just wish it was a few mm bigger. To answer the question, if you can buy steel at RRP, then Yes.
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This came from a good friend last week...
APH dial unworn with all stickers.
I’ll move it on though as you can’t wear stuff like this. It will just get passed around getting more and more valuable
Shame really.
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the fabled APH dial where it seems there are actually more APH dials than non APH dials
Real noticeable differences for this reference in my opinion are:
Mark 1 dial (noticeably darker sometimes coffee colour subdial rings and less shiny)
Last 4 years of production had so called disco light sub dials as super reflective/refractive (personally I’m really not a fan of the disco light sub dials makes it look cheap and a bit fake IMO, but some like it)
Small slim clasp vs fat clasp switch over (slim usually preferred as more elegant)
Slim vs fat hands (slim hands up to 04/05)
Finally cream dials for the first couple years on the white dial (I don’t like this again, not the same as the cream dials of vintage explorer 2, but again some like it and it’s distinctive)
The slim hands with a blank rehault are far more attractive than the later fat hands and Rolex, Rolex, Rolex in my opinion.
Some view the slim hands as more elegant, I went for fat hands as I found the slim hands a bit hard to spot against the 116520 dial. My choice was mark 1 with the fat hands which was only crossed over for a short while, before they went to mark 2 dial and fat hands.
I worked out my preference as Watchfinder Royal Exchange kindly brought out the full tray across the years for me to see, all 116520, it’s fun to see the same reference evolve, normally you would think the modern references don’t evolve much, but when seen together they really do
The “clearly so do Rolex” statement is simply a speculation and simply your conclusion.
In a similar vain one can argue that the steel coloured rings in the 116520 are there to match the steel bezel as the black rings match the ceramic bezel for the 116500...
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It’s a watch I want to like very much... but in any configuration, for whatever reason, I’m just not drawn to it. I could be tempted to buy to try but the premiums, to me, really hurt the value proposition, no matter how easily recovered. I just don’t think it’s worth the grey market price.
Then getting hold of one from an AD... it’s hard enough to keep liking submariners while that game goes on.
I’m happy to admire them on other people but I don’t think I’ll ever take the plunge.
I would love to go for a Zenith model. I usually prefer the modern watches due to bracelet feel. However, I do admit the Zenith models do have a certain look about them which I really like.
One thing that does stand out, is the fact that the sub-dials on the Zenith are aligned 3-9, whereas the Rolex movements are not! (One of those, once you see it you cannot unsee it) If I had an option to have any Daytona, I think I may still go modern ceramic.
Have to agree with this thread the white Zeniths are great looking watches. This is an A serial with SEL bracelet from 1999-2000. Recently returned from Rolex London with the bracelet centre links brushed not Polished. I got a few gifts for their mistake but to be honest it looks much better and more in line with earlier models.
seppia spartacus
M
Last edited by milwatch126; 1st November 2020 at 15:08.
Yes I agree, SS bracelets should be 100% brushed as polished SS simply does not work.
Here's a question for the 165xx and 1165xx owners. Is a service replacement bezel an issue?
I was reading an interesting article that suggested back in the day Rolex wouldn't polish the steel bezels on these watches for fear of removing the the black in the numbers, preferring to offer customers a brand new replacement bezel.
Now if we think Sub, SD, GMT, fat font, flat four, etc, etc, very few people would contemplate a service replacement insert, but is there any actual difference with these steel bezels between originals and service replacements? I will exclude the early 200 and 225 bezels on the Zenith Mark 1 and 2 from this as they are clearly different beasts.
Here's a second question, if the black in the numbers was worn, is there an easy way to put it back. A sort of DIY method for amateurs.
I have a 1655 Explorer11 and there is absolutely no trace of black in the numbers on the bezel at all. I wanted the bezel replaced with a nice new shiny one or to have a "paint job" on the bezel. The AD talked me out of it and his sidekick also waded in. A new bezel on a 40 year watch would devalue it, collectors and even normal owners prize originality over a new look. Secondly, there is no real durable way of filling in the black, it never looks right and the AD refused point blank to even attempt it.
Therefore today, my 1655 looks it's age and it does annoy me a bit but rightly or wrongly, if you own a vintage Rolex, you are sort of being blackmailed not to tart it up.
Strangely enough, a worn out looking 1655 Explorer sort of looks the part but a Daytona , I think, looks better all shiny and new.
Thanks Mick and I agree with everything you say. I suppose trying to replace the black would be a dark art and best left to experts who relume tritium hands and plots on dials and as you say once done would devalue the watch.
I would also agree that originality over a new look is important with many collectors preferring a worn or slightly faded insert over a new service replacement and in the case of the Daytona and the 1655 that includes rubbing or loss of the black (enamel I understand?) on the steel bezel.
Given Rolex love of changing things, I was just curious if anyone had had it done or were offered it and politely declined and back to the original question I suppose, are those bezels any different to the originals in fat font, thin font, serif kind of way.
There is no way to replace the black lettering. I would have thought if you were polishing the rest of the watch a new bezel would fit in. I don’t think there is any way to tell it’s a ‘service’ item.
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