closing tag is in template navbar
Time Factors Watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 101

Thread: Where are we going with electric cars?

  1. #1
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,333

    Where are we going with electric cars?

    Some interesting stuff in here:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tilakdo.../#57ed8ea8650b

    and:

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...e-ev-emissions

    "Polestar’s calculations, based on the average global energy mix, show it would take 70,000 miles before the 2 had a CO2 advantage over the petrol XC40." I wonder at which point you need to replace (and recycle) the batteries and start adding to the tally again?

    I just wish manufacturers could be encouraged to drastically reduce the weight and size of their cars. The heavier the car the larger amount of particulates from tyres too. Massive SUVs and cars mean bigger batteries and more weight. Yes, SUVs are already capable of carrying the new technology and extra weight but they're also receiving the subsidies to allow people to actually lease and drive them. I do see taxation based on weight coming though, it's just when (I think the French are looking into it, they're certainly looking into big taxes for anything producing even slightly high emmissions). There's a theory the large SUV and uneconomical car will die out as our children change their lifestyle habits (and possibly become embarrassed by our excesses!) but for now cars are all going in a worrying direction.
    "A man of little significance"

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    The heavier the car the larger amount of particulates from tyres too.
    And the lower the friction coëfficient of the rubber. See tyre load sensitivity.

    More weight is more kinetic enegry to slow down and less fiction to slow it down. Definitely more báng for the buck.
    Not read the safety problem of longer stopping distances anywhere.
    And that is not mentioning the same in corners, emergency manouvres.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    14,297
    I sometimes wonder whether the trend to ever bigger cars (just look at the size of some of the faux Mini's) is driven by customers perception that bigger is safer? If that's the case where does it ever end? Next doors bought a bigger one than mine, what should I look at buying now?

    I've had a number of bigger Japaness and Swedish cars at one time and just loved a big V6. When I relocated to a part of the country with narrow roads (single track round many of the villages) and virtually no parking provision out in the sticks I went for the smallest car I could find in my price range.

    The 3dr VW Up with its tiny 3 cylinder engine kind of makes me think of a microlight when I get in and out - and its all the better for it. I am now coming round to smaller is better. It wouldn't even bother me if it had an electric motor- provided that it had a range of 400 miles that is.

    Perhaps one day car ownership will become a minority thing with most people just summoning a driverless car via an app on their mobile. This makes far more sense to me - thinking of how much money is tied up in a depreciating asset that spend most of its time just sitting there doing nothing.



    .


    .

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    ''I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
    purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis"

  4. #4
    I'm not sure you will see size and weight reduce any time soon, as the regulators such as NCAP, NHTSA, have strong safety standards whitch the OEMs have to adhere to.

    The OEMs also need the floorpan as large as possible to house the battery package. As for Tyres, these are specifically made for EV products car and Van to handle the driving characteristics and torque that an EV delivers and with lowish volumes, by ICE (internal combustion engines) vehicles, they are likely to be expensive to replace too. Alternative propulsion will continue to have a place, based on cost of ownership, PD and infrastructure.

    As the Autocar report states, the EV proposition has many variables based on driving cycle, and where and how the vehicle is used, oh and an important point that most people seem to overlook is how the electricity is sourced, along with the materials such as Cobalt, Nickel that are needed to manufacture.

    The question I often ask at is, would the consumer like some relatively low Co2/Nox from the tailpipe of an ICE powered vehicle, or electricity for your EV, having been likely generated from a coal burning power station churning out way higher levels of pollution?

    The current ICE emissions are very clean today and from an energy perspective, the world is long on gasoline and short on diesel as a fuel.

    Infact aside from Europe, RoW including Russia, MEA and Asia Pacific favours gasoline as its easier and more readily available from refining and infrastructure.

    In my opinion, the world leaders and corporate decision makers have started the messaging that EV are good and ICE is bad, but not taking the wider environmental position into their communications. EV infrastructure worldwide has some way to go to satisfy consumer demand.

    Both have a place at the table depending on geography, appetite for cost and drive cycles.

    The OEMs are loading their future product cycle plans with EVs, lets hope there will be enough energy to support the volumes.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    I was thinking along similar lines the other day, some of these ‘family cars’ are the size of a transit van.
    Car design is up its own arse, it’s as if they are producing what people think they want rather than need.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,333
    A Dutch friend told me the government there has been pushing for the phasing out of fossil fuel cars and moving to renewable energy only. Which doesn't quite add up!
    "A man of little significance"

  7. #7
    I would not agree that Car design is in this category.

    Consumer research along with all the safety parameters that are baked into legislation today, make the engineering and design save lives.

    Drivers are attracted to a higher driving position, thus SUVs and CUVs along with versatility are favoured today by the wider customer.

    I get it to a point, but I personally still prefer the traditional vehicle styles, hatchback Station Wagon/estate for example, but the research is suggesting a real move away from these, so the OEMs are having to predict the ongoing future trends.

    Its expensive to develop vehicles btw

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    19,194
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    I was thinking along similar lines the other day, some of these ‘family cars’ are the size of a transit van.
    Car design is up its own arse, it’s as if they are producing what people think they want rather than need.
    +1, I was thinking along similar lines yesterday. The fashion/ trend for SUVs is something I find hard to understand, especially the 4 wheel drive things, they’re no more practical than a decent hatchback or estate car. Do people really need these big heavy vehicles or are they simply drawn into the fashion aspect. To my eye they all look alike, just a different badge on the front........I don’t get it, I call them ugly- mobiles!

    Many modern cars are too wide for UK roads and driveways too, I think the time has come to tax cars on size/ width.

  9. #9
    Well....it is consumer demand that is driving the product and design direction.

    The OEM product planners, are responding to the voice of the customer.
    You may have a personal view, but the design teams respond to future trends and what ultimately the customer will choose.

    We have seen a similar approach by the Watch manufacturers moving from a 36mm to 40+mm for example haven't we.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    14,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post

    We have seen a similar approach by the Watch manufacturers moving from a 36mm to 40+mm for example haven't we.
    And now moving back down in size - where as cars are still going in the same direction
    ''I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
    purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis"

  11. #11
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    10,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    Drivers are attracted to a higher driving position, thus SUVs and CUVs along with versatility are favoured today by the wider customer.

    I get it to a point, but I personally still prefer the traditional vehicle styles, hatchback Station Wagon/estate for example, but the research is suggesting a real move away from these, so the OEMs are having to predict the ongoing future trends.
    I don't get the high driving position thing at all.

    I'm not tall at 5' 9", but I'm not a midget and having to climb up or drop out of some of my friends SUVs isn't an experience I enjoy.

    While I quite like being a passenger in a high vehicle, be it an SUV or a bus, I hate the feeling of sitting on top of a car when driving and the feeling it will fall over in corners even more.

    I'm sure SUV fans will tell me they don't feel like that, but it's not my experience!

    Personally, I'd never buy such a vehicle - I drive an estate car, which whilst not the sexiest thing on 4 wheels, does at least drive like a car, not a truck. Few people need the capabilities an SUV offers (and many can't even drive them anyway - I once passed a striken Mercedes SUV on a snow-covered motorway slip road in my RWD RX-8, a car someone described to me as 'undriveable on snow' - If I could get up it, the SUV should have found it a doddle!)

    The only chink of light is the 'crossover' which do seem to be getting smaller and more car like all the time. I guess a time may come where I'd need to pick the least truck-like crossover SUV, but I don't look forward to it at all.

    If legislation was as focussed on reducing vehicle weight (whilst retaining safety), designers and engineers would come up with solutions, but at the moment the focus is (as it was with diesel - Remember when that was the 'great idea'? ) all on reducing CO2 directly from the vehicle - Short term, blinkered thinking from people with no real idea of what it means longer term.

    Of course, high vehicles suit the electric car design agenda as you can stick all the batteries under the floor...

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 8th October 2020 at 13:49.
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  12. #12
    They need to drastically lower the cost of hybrid / EV cars for a start, we looked a toyota CHR for the wife last year. From memory a 1.2 petrol was around £15k and the same age car with the hybrid engine was £22k. A tesla model S is £80k and a 3 is £42k. A jag F pace is £42k a E pace is £30k the I pace (electric) is £65k.

    Those few examples show the hybrid / electric versions of similar cars are a huge jump up in prices, yes they cost less to run but that will not offset the huge purchase price initially.

    I drive a m240i - not the most economical car in the world and use around £2k of petrol a year, so base that on a F pace to a I pace it would take 10 years to claw back the difference in money saved.

  13. #13
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,923
    As to electric cars, I have a number of concerns.

    - range. Currently no use for me.

    - cost. China owns rights to 95% of the world's rare elements used in EV's. That's too much control.

    - energy. Moving to renewable sources whilst increasing domestic and EV demands may lead us to a California style disaster.

    - practicality. My Macan gets 40mpg, easily refuelable, has amazing range & can do much of my own work.

    Not for me yet, I'm afraid.

    Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    Well....it is consumer demand that is driving the product and design direction.

    The OEM product planners, are responding to the voice of the customer.
    You may have a personal view, but the design teams respond to future trends and what ultimately the customer will choose.

    We have seen a similar approach by the Watch manufacturers moving from a 36mm to 40+mm for example haven't we.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    The manufacturers are more than happy to make SUVs because they can charge you more for them. 15 years ago we were all encouraged to buy diesels, now they're dead in the water. What the customer buys is often dictated by the cost of buying and taxing a vehicle. If you gradually increased the tax on heavier cars I bet they'll start getting lighter. But as you say, the customer is choosing these things so why shouldn't the customer pay properly for them?
    "A man of little significance"

  15. #15

    Where are we going with electric cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikGixer750 View Post
    They need to drastically lower the cost of hybrid / EV cars for a start, we looked a toyota CHR for the wife last year. From memory a 1.2 petrol was around £15k and the same age car with the hybrid engine was £22k. A tesla model S is £80k and a 3 is £42k. A jag F pace is £42k a E pace is £30k the I pace (electric) is £65k.

    Those few examples show the hybrid / electric versions of similar cars are a huge jump up in prices, yes they cost less to run but that will not offset the huge purchase price initially.

    I drive a m240i - not the most economical car in the world and use around £2k of petrol a year, so base that on a F pace to a I pace it would take 10 years to claw back the difference in money saved.
    Who needs to lower the cost? Are the makers making greater margins on their EVs or is it just the greater cost to manufacture?

    Self-charging hybrids are an evolutionary dead end and fuel economy isn’t that much greater than a very efficient petrol/diesel engine.

  16. #16
    I'm not sure many OEMs are making money on selling EVs.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    I'm not sure many OEMs are making money on selling EVs.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    I doubt it, Tesla have never turned a profit; but most manufacturers will be looking to slowly recover their R&D costs on a vehicle lifecycle and incorporate newer tech throughout their whole product range.

    I must admit that I do enjoy a higher driving position and would consider a 4x4 just for that alone - given that overall traffic speeds seem to be reducing I may well go that way in the future, but I am likely to go for a last hurrah (as we still have no overall blanket speed limit here for the time being) and enjoy a final go at a sportier drive first. Still debating how sporty at present and trying to way up man maths, but I could be swayed on a half-way house on something like a BMW i8 with ICE and plug in capability.
    It's just a matter of time...

  18. #18
    Craftsman rodia77's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Cork, ROI
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    Perhaps one day car ownership will become a minority thing with most people just summoning a driverless car via an app on their mobile.
    Given that people will regain the ownership of their devices first. ;-)

    Looking at Tesla, a 'car as a service' era is knocking at our door, which will further infringe on people's privacy and freedoms. Which, with how Gen-Y+ have been groomed to easily forgo those, will most likely go completely unnoticed.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    Consumer research along with all the safety parameters that are baked into legislation today, make the engineering and design save lives.
    Those safety requirements are passive and the minimum decelleration is a joke.

    The tyeres being ´specially designed´ is a eufemism for the cars being too heavy for normal tyres. The rubber used has less friction coëfficient still!!

    As I write; definitely a bigger báng for the moeny.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Who needs to lower the cost? Are the makers making greater margins on their EVs or is it just the greater cost to manufacture?
    A very much more expensive car with the same or even a fractionally lówer margin stiil netts more profit.
    Same thing all sorts of taxes for gvt.

  21. #21
    What do mean by passive Safety?

    The tyre equation has to accommodate the sheer torque delivery and to make the vehicle comply with the safety regulations. Im not sure i understand your point.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    We're told they don't need much servicing. Could be bad news for garage trade.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    We're told they don't need much servicing. Could be bad news for garage trade.
    Most modern cars need less servicing though - lots have 20,000 service periods, and a basic service of my cars include a visual inspection of the wheels and discs/brakes with the wheels still in place and an oil/filter change - brake fluid every 2-3 years. So, an electric car will be similar re brakes and all fluids except engine oil. They are generally heavier, so suspension parts will no doubt need replacing sooner, and tyres have more torque going through them and will likely be replaced sooner too. but maybe harder to justify the charges on some cars for the garages, although anything with tech is outside the comfort zone of most owners so they will likely just continue to pay up...
    It's just a matter of time...

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    Most modern cars need less servicing though - lots have 20,000 service periods, and a basic service of my cars include a visual inspection of the wheels and discs/brakes with the wheels still in place and an oil/filter change - brake fluid every 2-3 years. So, an electric car will be similar re brakes and all fluids except engine oil. They are generally heavier, so suspension parts will no doubt need replacing sooner, and tyres have more torque going through them and will likely be replaced sooner too. but maybe harder to justify the charges on some cars for the garages, although anything with tech is outside the comfort zone of most owners so they will likely just continue to pay up...
    Maybe, just what I've read on here from the evangelists.

  25. #25
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    59
    Electric is the future, it's got so many advantages. But for most people, it's not quite there yet. Lack of infrastructure, high prices, rapidly evolving technology.

    I think plugin hybrid is a great half-way-house, but when I was buying a car earlier this year there just wasn't the variety. I couldn't get a suitable one. So I ended up with a (non-plugin) hybrid.

  26. #26
    Battery electric is a painful stopgap, mainly caused by governments dicking about with things they don't understand, the future is Hydrogen fuel cell,

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Battery electric is a painful stopgap, mainly caused by governments dicking about with things they don't understand, the future is Hydrogen fuel cell,
    Agreed.

  28. #28
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    843
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Battery electric is a painful stopgap, mainly caused by governments dicking about with things they don't understand, the future is Hydrogen fuel cell,
    I suspect we will end up with a hybrid of battery and hydrogen fuel cell, in effect a self-charging hybrid but using the fuel cell instead of ICE.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  29. #29
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    843
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    Most modern cars need less servicing though - lots have 20,000 service periods, and a basic service of my cars include a visual inspection of the wheels and discs/brakes with the wheels still in place and an oil/filter change - brake fluid every 2-3 years. So, an electric car will be similar re brakes and all fluids except engine oil. They are generally heavier, so suspension parts will no doubt need replacing sooner, and tyres have more torque going through them and will likely be replaced sooner too. but maybe harder to justify the charges on some cars for the garages, although anything with tech is outside the comfort zone of most owners so they will likely just continue to pay up...
    There is virtually no brake wear on electric cars, since most the stopping is done via the motor. A set of disks will probably last the lifetime of the car, with only the fluid to be changed every couple of years


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    I suspect we will end up with a hybrid of battery and hydrogen fuel cell, in effect a self-charging hybrid but using the fuel cell instead of ICE.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Hydrogen cars are powered solely by electricity so not a hybrid in the sense that ICEs are (having both an engine and electric motors). There has to be a battery to store regenerated energy from braking but doubt they'll be designed to keep moving once H2 runs out as this would entail an unnecessarily heavy battery.

  31. #31
    I just bought a used Bmw i3

    I p/x my 3.0d msport X5

    Why?

    Money in a nutshell

    An example today - Coventry to Bicester
    I left my property with about 75 of electric range - I was t fully charged
    The car has 90 miles range of unleaded too

    Got to Bicester with 20 miles of disc range left

    Into valet parking and plugged in for free
    Back from a gentle trot around and a bite to eat and 75 miles again in electric

    I need now to put the car on charge via a 13amp granny charger and it’ll cost me about £3 to take it up to 120miles range

    The X5 would have spewed £35-45 of diesel

    The I3 is no super lux vehicle - but has heated seats a great stereo and certainly doesn’t look or feel dated

    Acceleration is faster than the m4

    Drive it hard you’ll reduce your range
    Drive it nice you’ll hit the markers for economy

    I’d recommend one

    Also..... unlike many online communities the EV one is friendly - so too much experiences at public charge points

    Some manufacturers now have 300 mile electric range - what’s not to like

    This car will pay for the cash top up I made against the px in two years with ease

    Who knows.... I’m just over a week in - but I can see why people are jumping in. No need to spend a fortune on a Tesla - oh and you’re right about maintenance - you hardly e er touch the brakes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  32. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    What do mean by passive Safety?

    The tyre equation has to accommodate the sheer torque delivery and to make the vehicle comply with the safety regulations. Im not sure i understand your point.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    My point is that they are only safe por those inside; have more kin. energy and a larger stopping distance than lighter cars.
    The rest in gvt/industry fog.
    Heavier = less safe. No way around it. Newtonian law combined with the material properties of rubber.

    To put insult upon injury the new regulations about drivers´licences have upped the weight limits.
    The point: The same drivers driving heavier cars is agaín less safe.

  33. #33
    The design and engineering teams often have significant crash test centres to simulate road traffic collisions from various impact points.

    I do not doubt the physics you refer, but the OEMs are taking crash and accident extremely seriously and as a result have made enormous strides in vehicle safety for both internal and external impact, just take a look on YouTube for some examples.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  34. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweepinghand View Post
    Who knows.... I’m just over a week in - but I can see why people are jumping in.

    I can totally see it too but not the current heavy crop.

    My MR2 hobby car p.e. could be made líghter as an energy regenerating electric. Range 80 kW and 300 km would do for me. Problem is that it would be loaded with all sorts of nonsense weighing 150 kg móre, dictating stronger e-power, more battery etc. ending up a 200-250 kg heavier lard.

    Maybe I should convert a Renault R4 or better still my old DAF55!! Simple, light, eco. It will be aginst the rule no doubt as not generating more dish for the State/industry....

  35. #35
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Mid Glamorgan
    Posts
    4,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post


    Perhaps one day car ownership will become a minority thing with most people just summoning a driverless car via an app on their mobile.

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    We are pretty much at that now. It’s called a taxi

  36. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southern Spain
    Posts
    23,658
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post

    I do not doubt the physics you refer, but the OEMs are taking crash and accident extremely seriously and as a result have made enormous strides in vehicle safety for both internal and external impact, just take a look on YouTube for some examples.
    Missing/ignoring the point by a mile:
    1. It is the same for fossil fuel burners!!
    2. All áfter the bang.
    The point is ceterus paribus:
    1. More weight/ less traction to prevent a bang.
    2. A bigger bang at the same speed.

  37. #37
    I certainly have not missed the point.

    I shall step away from the thread.



    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

  38. #38
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Mid Glamorgan
    Posts
    4,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikes1 View Post
    I certainly have not missed the point.

    I shall step away from the thread.



    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    Don’t let cilla stop you from posting, he ruins nearly every thread he ‘contributes’ to.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    And the lower the friction coëfficient of the rubber. See tyre load sensitivity.

    More weight is more kinetic enegry to slow down and less fiction to slow it down. Definitely more báng for the buck.
    Not read the safety problem of longer stopping distances anywhere.
    And that is not mentioning the same in corners, emergency manouvres.
    Id like you to explain that one Cilla because I don’t make sense of it. If I grab a chair from around my table I can’t easily push it around my kitchen by applying force to it. If I were to get my wife to sit in the same chair then the friction would be greater and I’d have to apply more force to get it moving?
    I may well have misunderstood your point however.

  40. #40
    Master Caruso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Worthing
    Posts
    2,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweepinghand View Post
    I just bought a used Bmw i3

    I p/x my 3.0d msport X5

    Why?

    Money in a nutshell

    An example today - Coventry to Bicester
    I left my property with about 75 of electric range - I was t fully charged
    The car has 90 miles range of unleaded too

    Got to Bicester with 20 miles of disc range left

    Into valet parking and plugged in for free
    Back from a gentle trot around and a bite to eat and 75 miles again in electric

    I need now to put the car on charge via a 13amp granny charger and it’ll cost me about £3 to take it up to 120miles range

    The X5 would have spewed £35-45 of diesel

    The I3 is no super lux vehicle - but has heated seats a great stereo and certainly doesn’t look or feel dated

    Acceleration is faster than the m4

    Drive it hard you’ll reduce your range
    Drive it nice you’ll hit the markers for economy

    I’d recommend one

    Also..... unlike many online communities the EV one is friendly - so too much experiences at public charge points

    Some manufacturers now have 300 mile electric range - what’s not to like

    This car will pay for the cash top up I made against the px in two years with ease

    Who knows.... I’m just over a week in - but I can see why people are jumping in. No need to spend a fortune on a Tesla - oh and you’re right about maintenance - you hardly e er touch the brakes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm nearly 2 years into i3 ownership and my experience has largely been positive. The only downside was an expensive repair to the wiring loom for the petrol engine.

    EV adoption needs to go alongside renewable generation and storage. We have a massive wind farm 14km offshore, so i can see all the pieces in place for green transport.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    14,297
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    We are pretty much at that now. It’s called a taxi
    No Uber's around these parts and conventional taxis are expensive - once you've waited an age for them to arrive.
    ''I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
    purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis"

  42. #42
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    37,423
    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    No Uber's around these parts and conventional taxis are expensive - once you've waited an age for them to arrive.
    Which I suspect will result in you also being unable to summon a driverless car via an app.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  43. #43
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    14,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Which I suspect will result in you also being unable to summon a driverless car via an app.
    Yes, makes sense - for the foreseeable future anyway
    ''I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
    purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis"

  44. #44
    Driverless cars (and taxis) might be ok for getting home after and evening out or getting to/from the station but what about runs to the tip and stuff like that.

    Maybe a (scruffy) driverless van?

  45. #45
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    4,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    Some interesting stuff in here:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tilakdo.../#57ed8ea8650b

    and:

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...e-ev-emissions

    "Polestar’s calculations, based on the average global energy mix, show it would take 70,000 miles before the 2 had a CO2 advantage over the petrol XC40." I wonder at which point you need to replace (and recycle) the batteries and start adding to the tally again?

    I just wish manufacturers could be encouraged to drastically reduce the weight and size of their cars. The heavier the car the larger amount of particulates from tyres too. Massive SUVs and cars mean bigger batteries and more weight.
    One of the things often missed in the CO2 comparisons between electric and ICE vehicles is that with an electric vehicle it gets ‘greener’ as a countries electrical generation gets greener too, and it’s retrospective to all EVs on the road so you don’t have to wait for next gen engines etc.

    It also takes a lot of electricity to make petrol and diesel, something which I never see factored in to the comparative calculations, only the consumption, despite the CO2 of battery production always being included.

    Where you live and drive your car in the world makes a difference as well, an EV in Norway will always be greener than one in Germany with its brown coal fired power generation. The UK is somewhere between the two.

    I drive an EV, but I wouldn’t consider myself an ‘evangelist’, one happens to work fine for my needs, but I accept they don’t work for everybody.

    Not all EVs are SUVs and some are no heavier than their ICE counterparts. My e-Golf weighs the same as a Golf R for instance.

    I just find them interesting technology, and they’re good to drive, but I still love some petrol cars as well.

    I think Hydrogen has a future as well, but maybe not for cars.

  46. #46
    ?

    i3 BMW, faster than the M4 what? Not an M4 BMW anyway.
    It's just a matter of time...

  47. #47
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Lincolnshire
    Posts
    4,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    ?

    i3 BMW, faster than the M4 what? Not an M4 BMW anyway.
    I think the metric used is often something like 0-35/40 or something! I remember the salesman using that line on me when I purchased an i3 back in 2014.

    Just about all EVs are quick off the line, even the boring ones like mine, and of course Tesla take it to a different level, but they’re exceptionally powerful.

  48. #48
    The only drag race I’ve watched was the older 4.0 M3, and the i3 had a rolling jump start and stayed slightly ahead for maybe 1 or 2 seconds before being completely left at around 30mph onwards.

    In any case, there is virtually no other measure where you’d call an i3 quick - the non-extender version does alright however between 50-70mph, and I enjoyed having one for a day (well a couple hours before range meant it was returned) to play in.
    It's just a matter of time...

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    ?

    i3 BMW, faster than the M4 what? Not an M4 BMW anyway.
    I have owned am M4CP and have driven an I3, the I3 is considerably slower, but like with all electric cars the instant torque makes it feel fast for a bit.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    I think the metric used is often something like 0-35/40 or something! I remember the salesman using that line on me when I purchased an i3 back in 2014.

    Just about all EVs are quick off the line, even the boring ones like mine, and of course Tesla take it to a different level, but they’re exceptionally powerful.
    I was following a model S a few days ago on a country lane, we got to a straight as a slow car in front turned off. At the time we were both doing maybe 20 mph, he then shot off once clear - I reacted a little slow as I did not think he would and then followed. I can not say if he was at full acceleration but he did not pull much on me at all and being behind I had reaction lag. I was in a m240.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information