Reply With QuoteIn the sense than it's irrelevant as there aren't any Rolex GMTs around for tourists to buy anyway?Originally Posted by Itsguy
There’s an interesting article in The Times here. This should be free to read though you may have to sign up with an email.
The TLDR version is that tourists from abroad who buy a watch without UK VAT will have to send it directly to their home address, meaning they can’t sneakily wear it home in the hope of avoiding taxes in their own country. This could make it considerably less attractive for buyers from other territories to buy in the UK - according to the article, for a Chinese buyer it would mean the difference between paying £6k and £10k for a Rolex GMT. This could have a significant effect on everyone’s favourite topic, Rolex availability.
In the sense than it's irrelevant as there aren't any Rolex GMTs around for tourists to buy anyway?
"A man of little significance"
In the sense that there aren’t any around because they’ve bought them all.
These aren't the casual tourist you're thinking of. These are the tourists the come here just for shopping and spend way more with the ADs than most of us.
Analysts now think that these tax law changes will cost Watches of Switzerland £58m of lost sales next year as the naughty foreign buyers will no longer be able to avoid import taxes.
So you would think that perhaps uk buyers will have more of an opportunity to purchase regardless of their total spend.
Interesting article. But big spending tourists are buying multiple watches at a time, so can't be wearing them all at once currently when going through customs .
Whilst in London I was speaking to a Vintage dealer who said his friend who works In the Bond street Rolex AD had the most bizarre requests from the local council binman, to ask customers to dispose of their rubbish better....apparently he was annoyed as the bins were being frequently jammed up with Rolex boxes as seemingly Chinese buyers who buy 3 or 4 of anything (not just sports) were ditching the boxes outside the shop....so now they offer box free sales.....sounds unbelievable so probably true
Cue all the London based TZUKers making a beeline to the bin outside the shop...Whilst in London I was speaking to a Vintage dealer who said his friend who works In the Bond street Rolex AD had the most bizarre requests from the local council binman, to ask customers to dispose of their rubbish better....apparently he was annoyed as the bins were being frequently jammed up with Rolex boxes as seemingly Chinese buyers who buy 3 or 4 of anything (not just sports) were ditching the boxes outside the shop....so now they offer box free sales.....sounds unbelievable so probably true
Last edited by ach5; 11th October 2020 at 21:04. Reason: Spellin stoopid
THIS, will be the new Rolex AD requirement.Whilst in London I was speaking to a Vintage dealer who said his friend who works In the Bond street Rolex AD had the most bizarre requests from the local council binman, to ask customers to dispose of their rubbish better....apparently he was annoyed as the bins were being frequently jammed up with Rolex boxes as seemingly Chinese buyers who buy 3 or 4 of anything (not just sports) were ditching the boxes outside the shop....so now they offer box free sales.....sounds unbelievable so probably true
1. Remove stickers
2. Resize bracelet
3. Chuck the box in the bin outside, just to show that you love us and that you won't sell your watch on for $$$
I just assumed Rolex had strangled supply and dealers just sold to sufficiently wealthy magpies but it makes sense for the dealers to take the money off those with the most to throw around.
"A man of little significance"
On the plus side the sales assistant that rudely refused to help me in Selfridges last time I was in because she was only employed to assist Chinese buyers could soon be out of a job.
More likely she will be gainfully employed packing boxes and affixing stamps for the overseas shipments.
Don't these Chinese buyers know that proper Rolex boxes are worth a ridiculous amount on ebay? There again, as they are especially desired by those trying to pass a fake off as genuine, maybe we should be grateful that the boxes are binned!Whilst in London I was speaking to a Vintage dealer who said his friend who works In the Bond street Rolex AD had the most bizarre requests from the local council binman, to ask customers to dispose of their rubbish better....apparently he was annoyed as the bins were being frequently jammed up with Rolex boxes as seemingly Chinese buyers who buy 3 or 4 of anything (not just sports) were ditching the boxes outside the shop....so now they offer box free sales.....sounds unbelievable so probably true
I think Im missing something?
The UK VAT rules mean a tourist from (currently non-EU) Countries can buy something like over £700 (excluding services and food IIRC) of goods and reclaim the VAT back directly from HMRC Customs or an associated proxy such as Global Blue or Travellex. The goods generally have to be present whole - in boxes and packaging with receipts and completed claim form.
This perk to foreign non-EU tourists is something the UK Government is giving up and not back-charging the shop for on their accounts. Nothing to do with the Chinese Government.
The Chinese Government (or any other for that matter) could simply claim the receipt is false (even though VAT is indicated and not claimed) and could make claim itself if it so wished. So UK VAT and Chinese VAT combined for the unsuspecting Buyer.
If an individual makes a claim at HMRC Customs for VAT Refund.....nothing illegal in that. If an individual is required to declare it on the other side and does not...that is a problem between that individual and the Country where the goods will reside.
Quite often, I find that when I follow this process (buy in UK, Refund the VAT, enter my country of residence with significantly lower sales tax regime), quiet often foreign Customs they cant even be bothered to open the stall. More often that not, they are looking for Alcohol, pornography, illegal porcine-derived compounds etc...rather than a few trifling dollars in sales tax.
Where the real Tax crime is/should be sorted is on the purchase of second hand goods. Buy a 25 year old vintage quartz from the US...and get touched-up for 20% straight away with no possibility of refund. It will be interesting to see what happens but one of the few (of only three I can think of) detrimental aspects of Brexit is whether buying pre-worn used Rolex's, PPs etc..from the Continent is going to raise prices significantly unless there is a specific normalisation code for it?
G
The problem here will be Brexit. As of 1st Jan all EU visitors will also be entitled to VAT free purchases and I expect the government don't want to lose that amount of revenue.
All a bit odd as with IT systems the claim should be made at the airport after security so proving export and then the destination country could be alerted to collect the appropriate tax there.
They will buy very good quality fake boxes when they return to China. Job done. I dare say they will do the same with papers.
To be put on an expression of interest list for raking through the bins ?
Lol
Same will apply on imports, if you buy anything in the EU, you should be buying less VAT, and VAT will be applied upon import to the UK
How do the sums work for £6k vs £10k?
Ask The Times.
Sure will do. I didn't bother to read the article and just took the TLDR text, but couldn't equate those numbers!
Me neither! Maybe the relative price of the watches in different currencies is a factor? Or maybe their import tax is high. Or maybe it’s just wrong.
Do the Chinese not have some sort of Luxury Goods tax that they need to pay too.
There has been a crackdown by the Chinese government on the tax avoidance on the luxury goods coming in from abroad, 100 Vuitton bags shipped in from Paris via a mate paying no Tax. The Chinese government has been making it more attractive for its citizens to buy luxury goods within its own borders by reducing taxes on some items but with prices still more attractive abroad on many items, the market for tax avoidance for Chinese buyers remains high.
Yep.
IIRC something like 60%.
A bit more on this story from The Times this morning: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...6549d169f99d76
Luxury retailers think that this plan will simply drive away high spending tourists, just when we need them. Possibly good for stocks of in demand watches, not so good for our economy.
Based on this second article, I think that under the current system they were able to legally avoid VAT here, but would then also dodge import taxes at the other end. Under the new system, they would have to pay UK VAT, then have the watch shipped home with a full customs declaration, making sure they paid at both ends. This would account for the huge difference in cost. Obviously paying twice would make the UK go from the most attractive international shopping destination to the least.
It's good for the UK budget deficit if more VAT is paid. I suppose it's a question then of whether retailers lose sales and profit (and hotels lose custom) if tourists stay at home.
That’s the whole thing - they won’t buy it it’s cheaper in France or Italy, they’ll go there instead. The chancellor is thinking there’s nothing to lose as they’re not collecting taxes on those items anyway currently, but the whole tourist industry loses. That said, people coming from all over the world to hoover up UK Rolex supplies at a discount has not proved entirely popular on this forum.
Yes, and it’s worth noting the ripple effect of the potential loss in trade and also VAT on other purchases - VAT is retained by HMRC on store purchases,but potentially lost on additional hotel costs, restaurant and taxi expenditure, etc. which tourists might have incurred.
It’s impossible to know exactly how this will turn out in terms of VAT savings on items purchased vs. loss of other revenue/VAT, though the government must think it’s worth it. It seems potentially shortsighted to me, especially if we’re trying to bill ourselves as ‘global Britain’ and encourage people from around the world to come visit and spend money here. Still, I suppose one upside is more watches potentially being available to local buyers.
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There seems to be 2 things at play here in my opinion...
1 - The VAT refund for legitimate exports - I don't understand why this can't be allowed provided VAT is paid on import. Data could easily be shared to prevent avoidance. Some countries may have a more lax system but the UK doesn't want to compete on avoidance it seems.
2 - Brexit means a lot of very close countries will be able to buy in the UK and export and presumably HMRC see this as a large potential VAT loss now.
Of course VAT is a tax on profit so I am not sure the loss is quite as great as is being implied here.
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