Reply With QuoteSell the sizzle.
I’m considering replacing my ageing Volvo V70 with something smaller and sportier. I was looking at some premium marques, and doing some online research and came across this which seems to turn conventional wisdom on its head.
https://europe.jdpower.com/press-rel...dability-study
Peugeot is the most dependable U.K. car brand. Audi is 3rd from bottom and BMW rock bottom.
Don’t want to upset the beemer (or Audi) fan boys, but how does a premium brand at premium price with German engineering and history of engineering excellence get beaten by every other car marque for dependability, and get completely trounced by French Engineering.
Serious looking at a Peugeot 208 GTi now, and boy are they cheap compared to beemers.
Sell the sizzle.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
2020 survey doesn't put Peugeot on top.
Reliability surveys also don't take into account overall satisfaction with levels of after sales service. All well and good having "only" 77 issues per 100 vehicles. You still need to get things fixed. For that, Lexus always comes out on top.
JD Power 2020 has BMW as the least reliable manufacturer. An unenviable BMW double headerOriginally Posted by Paddy!
https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/478/m...by-jd-power-uk
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I’m on my 2nd new 5 series lease, never any problems.
You realise JD lost their impartiality when they were bought out a while ago?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I have had 3 5 and X5 BMW as company cars...nothing special to write home about regarding reliability and after 70k i wouldn't want to own one privately.
Now i buy my own cars it's always one fron the so called lesser brands but with better reliability and with a 5/7 year warranty thrown in.
Including Jaguar apparently.......😂
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Perhaps they gained impartiality rather than lost it? I suppose it depends somewhat on whether you like their findings or not.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I don’t get why it’s a surprise that the likes of Peugeot could possibly build a good car. Just because we pay XXXXXX amount for BMW, Merc and Audi it shouldn’t mean they’re going to be anymore reliable than anything else on the road. Fact remains that modern car’s have a vast amount of tech on them that will eventually go wrong.
Well, given they now 'consult' with manufacturers to assist in their ranking and the criteria for the scoring has been changed I would say they were not particularly impartial.
I have no real take on their individual findings except I have always doubted their overall credibility over the years - anybody who buys a Peugeot is nuts from my point of view, owned 2 over the years - never again.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Buy another kind of Volvo
Well... wasn't there an article about the unreliable XC90?
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...car-VOLVO.html Perhaps you should stay away from that model. And we weren't happy with our V70 (auto'box problems). I think that Toyota, Honda and Subaru have taken over Volvo's reliability.
Most German brands are not bought, but are leased. 'Owners' have no idea about repair bills. When buying, you need to keep in mind that service and repairs are absolutely horrifying expensive. The mechanics' hour rate is nearly as high as sollicitors' nowadays. Make sure you get extended warranty when buying the car. It worth negotiating that! (Or buy a Honda, sold overhere with full 10 yr warranty).
Menno
Buy a Lexus.
Perhaps they consult with manufacturers to obtain figures, in which case that could help with the reality of their statistics. Unless you think manufacturers would be less than truthful? And how has changing the criteria for scoring made their figures less impartial? I’m interested how you got to those conclusions.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Up until recently I have had BMWs as company cars, since 1987. I can recall only one incidence of a failure , which was the navigation system deciding to go U.S. Replaced under warranty after 3 attempts to fix it. So, I would buy one, and now have.
It will no doubt burst in to flames the moment I post this....
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Which? have BMW 19/34, Peugeot 10/34, Lexus, Toyata, Suzuki top 1/2/3 in their recent report.
Excluding at the bottom of their list due to lack of sample MG (which looks like it is actually faring quite well) and SsangYong (which doesn't) , last place is, surprise surprise, Land Rover - which doesn't give me any pleasure to say I might add. Tesla and Alfa Romeo are the other bottom feeders.
My last two cars have been BMWs, no issues with either.
My last three cars have been one Landrover and two Jaguars. Been very happy with all three.
Mind you I had a Landrover Freelander petrol for five years from 2001 and the engine never cooked itself so perhaps it’s just luck! After that I had a Nissan XTrail diesel which was much more capable off road than its image suggested and was excellent cruising on motorways as well.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yes you were very lucky
Dieselgate?
BMW were just fined in America for overstating monthly sales figures for 5 years.
Mercedes were charged with violating U.S. bribery laws by showering foreign officials with millions of dollars and gifts of luxury cars to win business deals "in a long-standing practice of paying bribes" to secure deals in Russia, China, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria, Iraq and at least 16 other countries between 1998 and early 2008
What about when Toyota lied about cars accelerating on their own and said floor mats were causing people to die then had to pay $1.2bn when caught only to blame "sticky pedals"?
These are the guys who would be less than truthful, yes. Lots more lies, just have to Google.
Well if they weren't being honest and still came bottom in the statistics posted earlier that's saying something!!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Oh I know, my remark about the Freelander was illustrating how I could just be lucky. At the time I was selling headsets hand over fist for them!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Second most unreliable car I’ve owned was a bmw 335i an absolute joy to drive but it ate coil packs for fun and a few other issues , it was however a pretty new engine for bmw and there where a few reports of issues at the time, traded it before the warranty expired.
Most unreliable goes to rangerover which I eventually gave back for a refund after 6 months, I think these days it’s more luck of the draw than a certain brand for unreliability but Honda, Nissan, Toyota and Subaru always seem to be at the top for me. Personally I’d never touch a landrover product again BMW I’d be less concerned about but if I wanted the safest bet I’d be looking towards the 4 mentioned, a Mercedes and a Volvo XC90 on the drive could mean we’re in for trouble soon lol
Surely if buy a more expensive car there’s more to go wrong. XC90 vs fiesta, hardly comparable
Perhaps they were just being less dishonest than the rest!
I once read that the higher the price paid, the higher the expectation of perfection. So if you’re buying a high priced car, you’re more likely to expect every little problem to be rectified, thus adding to the fault figures. Whilst when buying a cheap car, your just accept it and live with it.
Taken over?
"A man of little significance"
Not a fan boy ,but I’m on my third Audi and they so far have never been any bother.
Ha ha ha must admit never thought of that but you might have a point.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Had five new BMWs over 8 years and 40k miles, just one minor fault on a knocking damper.
Audi, Porsche, Land Rover and Mitsubishi all limped or trucked back to the dealer for warranty work.
Generally Lexus, Kia and Hyundai have been reliable (or have had issues fixed at zero cost due to excellent warranties).
Just dipped my toe into Mercedes-Benz so we'll see how that goes.
From my research I'd avoid an Audi with the DSG as they can break from 20k miles onwards - especially if left standing, like, say, on a dealers forecourt. BMW and MB seem to be OK with slightly more issues reported on forums for BMWs than MB, probably due to more spirited use. This information was gleaned from forums and Facebook groups, by myself with zero scientific rigor. I suggest you do your own due diligence. I also don't particularly trust any survey that puts Pug at the top of reliability, I've owned many French cars from Pug and Citroen and while they have been decent cars, they've all left me stranded at the side of the road at some point.
I've had 3 BMWs over the past 20 years and done over 60-70k in them - no issues other than standard servicing. Though I should add that the last one was getting on for 12 years old when I got rid of it. No idea how a more recent/modern BMW would fair.
In that period we've also had several Toyotas (still have 2), a Ford, a Vauxhall, a Citroen, a Mazda, a Honda, a Fiat, a Rover and a Volkswagen. The only one of those that actually broke down on the roadside leaving us stranded and went off on the back of a recovery truck was the Ford.
I should also add that I am quite mechanically savvy or sympathetic, so will usually become aware of issues before they escalate.
Is this 40K each or all together?
That is always strange to read. While I have no reason to doubt you, I had owned Renault, Citroens, but mostly Peugeots before coming here, done well over 300k kms in them and none left me stranded, ever. The dealers were as awful as can be expected, they had the usual niggles and in general were far from perfect. But they never left me stranded.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
For balance, my Laguna had 2 replacement gearboxes + left me stranded in Spain when cambelt failed.
To be fair, a cambelt failure is more a blot on the owner or the garage in charge of servicing the car than on the manufacturer, unless it happens very early on in the car's life.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
My two Renaults left me stranded four times in 5 years of combined ownership.
Megane was gearbox. The thing disintegrated selecting reverse.
Scenic had the clutch fail twice. It also needed a new radiator.
Not even thought for one second about buying another.
Cambelt replacement certainly wasn't overdue.
Just the same with watches, is a £10k watch that more accurate than a £100 watch ? and if so is the extra accuracy worth £9900 ? and then when you consider service costs for a Merc compared to a Peugeot or the likes, same with watches a £10k watch will cost £100s for a service whereas a £100 watch could just be replaced for a new one rather than a service.
They aren’t really reliability surveys though are they. It seems to be the number of reported niggles, large or small, by owners.
You buy a luxury car, you complain more I would expect.
I see unofficially Tesla were the worst car brand in the US for faults being reported.
I am not a fan of BMW after my wife decided that she wanted a Z4 - we had three and each was glitchy. All less than a year old when bought and only kept for a couple of years each. Two died on the drive due to flat batteries and two had jammed folding roofs (despite or because of hardly ever lowering the roof).
I had to have hatchbacks for practical purposes and decent reliability is at the top of my list of requirements. As a consequence I have had nine Honda Civics over the years and only one gave problems - one of the current models had electrical gremlins and the dealership swapped it for a new one without any loss to me. So (almost) full marks for Honda. Much as I like the look of some BMWs, I wouldn't buy one again.
The Which? report will also be biased by the demographic of their readership. Traditionally Volvo drivers?
Manufacturers pay for 'advise' which immediately raises the question of impartiality - JD claim that this is separate to the 'survey' but I remain unconvinced. The scoring is now heavily biased towards the 'dealer experience' which as we all know can be the biggest sh@t show going regardless of brand.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I bought a Kia Mentor way back when they first arrived in the UK. Cheap as chips and never let me down. I part ex'd it after five years, got a good trade in and saw it around my village for about five years. I met the new owner when filling up with fuel and he had only put fuel in it and had the oil changed/brakes adjusted annualy (low miles). It passed its test every year and was still on the original tyres and exhaust! My son has had two Kia cars and they have both been ultra reliable and only needed servicing! I only bought the first one because "she" liked the colour! At the time, my neighbour had one of the smaller BMW's (new) with the diesel engine and was constantly driving a courtesy car! Would I have a BMW? Not if I am paying for it!
On my third Beemer 5 Series and I have had a Z4 08 year no trouble with any of them. End of discussion as far as I’m concerned. I have had Three Mercs and two Audi’s never had a problem with any of those either
Am I reading this correct? A 10 year old car on its original tyres?
I have an interest in BMWs - I've owned a few, and currently run an '03 plate 530i wagon. But I saw this infographic a month ago, and it boggled me. Modern BMWs are not made like the old ones, I fear.
Even if plenty of tread, tyres of that age usually crack/perish. My experience anyway.
My advice is buy a Lexus.
However my current BMW 225xe PHEV (purists will rightly argue it’s a Mini Countryman under the skin) has been utterly faultless during my ownership, it’s comfy, quick, refined and averaging 76mpg. My previous Z4 only ever needed a new battery and was faultless. My Audi Q5 TFSi blew its engine at 50k and Audi TT blew its DSG gearbox at 70k. I’d recommend a BMW but would not entertain getting 3rd time lucky on another Audi/VAG group car.
My next car will most likely be a Lexus or BMW.
Interesting, I wonder where unbiased information might be available? If it originates from the manufacturers then they would perhaps be biased, not unknown in business. If it originates solely from buyers how do you get a truly representative result? Obviously 100% of buyers aren't going to be involved so how do you pick those who are?
Not at all easy.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Ha ha ha, made me smile but probably not far from the truth.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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