My week old Seiko SPB143 is running approximately 30s/d fast. I might have tolerated this on something inexpensive ike a Turtle or a SKX, but on a £1100 watch it is really disappointing. My recently sold MKII featuring a 6R15 was around +5s/d, so I know it can do better.
I am planning take it into the AD to discuss having it regulated. However given the quoted spec for the 6R35 is -15 to +25s/d, will Seiko actually put any effort into tightening up the accuracy? Would I be better off sending it to a independent, although that might void the warranty?
I do love the watch, despite its poorly aligned bezel and squint lume pip. My positive experience with the 6R15 made me confident to purchase this watch over an Swiss alternative with a bog standard 2824 inside.
Advice please gents.
Dave
Last edited by dforgrieve; 23rd September 2020 at 01:16.
It may be a case of wearing it for another couple of weeks and seeing if it improves (as it's pretty new).....although I had an SBDC051 with the same movement which ran fast by a similar amount, ended up sending it to a very nice member on here who kindly regulated it for me👍
Give the AD a ring and see what they say.
I’ve had new watches out of tolerance and the dealer put it through a demagnetiser and it was job done.
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take it to the AD. they will want to get is accurate to see the back of you.
they wont want to see you back the next day complaining again.
those movements can do + - 3 seconds a day no problem.
i used to have seikos with the less accurate 4r and they could do 3 / 4 seconds a day very easily
It's out of spec so get it back to the AD. As someone said it could just be magnetised (although I've never knowingly had a magnetised watch since I got into the hobby 6 years ago). Do let us know how you get on please.
Regulating it yourself without any kind of timing machine is very simple, it just takes patience. I recently bought a Seiko running more than 30 spd fast and I got it to 2spd by adjusting and checking, adjusting and checking. It took four adjustments over two days. However, on a watch that's so new and expensive I'd take it back and have the AD or Seiko sort it.
I wouldn't advise trying to regulate it yourself without a timegrapher. I`ve fixed a few where people have tried to fiddle with them, slipped with a tool, and wrecked the balance, it's all too easy to do.
It's possible the watch is slightly magnetised, but the effect before and after demagnetisation needs checking on a timegrapher to see the effect on both rate and amplitude.
Two simple questions: are you sure the watch has been operated in a high state of wind, and are you confident your reference timing source is correct?
Week old that fast I'm 100% certain it just needs demagnetising its quick and easy to do
Last edited by bazza.; 5th October 2020 at 17:40.
Same advice as I always give when a watch is suspected of running fast or slow: initially ensure its fully wound, monitor it over a few days versus a reliable source, write down the figures morning and evening, store dial-up overnight. This will allow the 'on the wrist' rate and the dial-up rate to be measured. If these figures confirm the initial observations the watch needs attention and you're armed with some proper data. A watch under warranty really needs to go to the AD, if someone else messes with it the warranty is likely to be void shoud there be further problems.
I think it unlikely to be magnetised, its more likely that its not regulated correctly, but without checking it properly on a timegrapher this is speculation. Provided the amplitude is OK and the watch is running well its straightforward to regulate properly, but I certainly wouldn't be messing about yourself on a new watch.
Contrary to previous comments Seikos are tricky to regulate, even with a timegrapher. There's no fine adjustment, the regulator arm has to be moved very carefully and it doesn`t move smoothly, you end up going back and forth until the desired number is observed on the machine. It's difficult to increase or decrease the rate by a set amount, frankly they're a pain to do. Anyone who's had good results doing it by trial and error has been v. lucky.
In my experience cheaper Seikos are often out of beat significantly too, that definitely needs a timegrapher to correct.
Just watched a bit of this, the guy's a monkey! I stopped watching when the hammer came out, that is not the way to remove casebacks.Originally Posted by bazza.
A hammer !!
The clues are all there, he has tattoos on his arms to remind him of which wrist the watch should be worn ( albeit possibly broken by being shocked by a hammer) .
Last edited by joe narvey; 23rd September 2020 at 12:05.
Cheers mate
Totally agree with you, that little lever does not move easily and then it jumps too far, then you have to push it the other way, then back again, it is pure luck to get it right easily. Each time you try to push that lever, you run the risk of damaging the balance spring if you slip. Send it back to Seiko for adjustment and re seal.
It won't be magnetised at a rate of 30 seconds per day out.
IME when a watch is magnetised it is usually minutes out per hour.
Read what Paul wrote at message #9 for some sage advice.
Also re choosing a 6R15 over a 2824, the 6R15 has a "hit and hope" regulation whereas the 2824 has a screw which IME is far easier to use and less chance of jamming a tool through the hairspring!
Cheers,
Neil.
My watch was 45s out and after a few second over a demagnetiser it went down to 2s NeilIt won't be magnetised at a rate of 30 seconds per day out.
IME when a watch is magnetised it is usually minutes out per hour.
Read what Paul wrote at message #9 for some sage advice.
Also re choosing a 6R15 over a 2824, the 6R15 has a "hit and hope" regulation whereas the 2824 has a screw which IME is far easier to use and less chance of jamming a tool through the hairspring!
I friend had the same with a week old Sinn he paid £6 for a demagnetiser and simple as that fixed it
OK, but it's a mistake to generalise based on limited experience! It's worth trying to demagnetise a watch if its running fast, and checking the performance before and after will show whether its had any effect, but it's misleading to imply that its the most likely cause of a watch running +30secs/day.
At the risk of insulting some Seiko owners, as a generalisation Seiko owners are reluctant to spend money getting their watches sorted out by a repairer, or they want it fixing for buttons. I charge the same price for labour, whether its a Seiko or Omega makes no difference, but I`ve encountered several Seiko owners who've expected the watches fixing very cheaply simply because they're inexpensive watches! Owners start messing about themselves and the watch ends up not running at all, or running very badly. OK, that's a generalisation, some Seiko owners are happy to pay to get their watches fixed properly but in my experience most aren`t.
I`m involved in other things thesedays and I`m unlikely to take any watch work on for several months, I`m in no position to offer practical help but I can still offer advice.
For those who have the dexterity and the basic tools, it's possible to regulate a watch yourself, but Seikos definitely aren`t the easiest. The ETA 2824 is far easier, the small slotted fine adjuster is designed for a screwdriver and its easy to return back to the original setpoint if you take a photo or make a diagram of the adjuster before moving. One gradation equates to approx. 6 secs/day. However, if the rate is way out the regulator arm needs moving and that involves removal of the auto-winding block to get access. Always be wary if the fine adjuster is set to one extreme or the other, that means someone who's not 'skilled in the art' has attempted to sort out a rate problem.
In my experience the cheap demagnetisers work OK, I used one for a few years and it worked fine. On that basis it may be worth buying one to try, but don't be surprised if it has no effect.
Thank you for the responses everyone.
“Hit & Hope” regulation, that should be funny but really isn’t.
I will keep the watch for another week or two, see if the movement settles, although I’ve never worked out if that is a myth or not.
That will give me the opportunity to do what Paul advises and gather some data, before going to the AD.
A couple of years back, I sent a SW200-1 powered watch to service centre for gaining time, turned out it was magnetised. I thought the timekeeping would be drastically out when that happened, given the balance spring sticks together. But it was only a couple of minutes fast per day.
Is there a recommended demagnetiser, or are they all the same?
From Paul’s comments, this isn’t the watch to use to learn to regulate on! Although a Timegrapher would be useful for data gathering to start with. Especially when service time comes around.
I usually use the clock on the Hodinkee/Watchville app. Is this ok? I previously used Time.IS or Emerald Time.
Dave
Last edited by dforgrieve; 23rd September 2020 at 16:27.
I've never had a Seiko that was a decent timekeeper, with the exception of my 6138-3002 chrono. It doesn't have running secs but the min hand will still appear spot on after 10 days. The worst one of all was a brand new Samurai that was +95sec/day. Oddly I bought a sterile 6105 homage with a NH35 movement and it is very accurate.
I’m planning on getting a Steeldive watch at some point, it’s quite possible it will more accurate than my SPB043 at tenth of the price!
The irritating thing is that I know the movement is perfectly capable of better accuracy, if only for a bit of attention. As Seiko prices continue to rise, so will expectations. I’m beginning to regret spending this much on a (non Grand) Seiko.
Dave
The blue ones available at online marketplaces for £10 do their job fine.
Only skimmed the thread and not sure if it was mentioned earlier, so just in case it wasn't: you can check if your watch is magnetised by hovering it over a magnetic compass.
I shall never spend money on a Seiko auto again, the dont care attitude from the company is something People do not have to tolerate, the fact that a Chinese company can produce a near perfect clone of their watches at a fraction of the cost says it all.
The magnetic compass trick may show whether the case is magnetised, but the real problem is the hairspring being magnetised and a compass won’t pick this up.
I always thought I was demagging the internals but now I checked that magging a mass similar to a watch case with a magnet is a matter of seconds, so you might be right about that.
You know that the "near perfect clone" in question has a Seiko movement in it, right?
Like the vast majority of the affordable microbrands on the market these days.
I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier in this thread though, that I'd like to see seiko improve their accuracy tolerances as they increase their prices, because I believe the movements are very much capable of it.
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