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Thread: Tesla Model 3 Performance *Review*

  1. #1
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Tesla Model 3 Performance *Review*

    Well chaps after a lot of thought I took the massive leap into the unknown and decided that my next motor would be an EV.

    Background... I have over the last 20 odd years predominantly had VAG group cars in the garage (exception 1 BMW) with new A4's, A5's, A6, Golf GTI's, Golf R's (wifey's current) the latest Q7 and my last car the New XC90. All of these have been my own cars due to BIK and the last six years PCH's.

    With the tax breaks, grants and BIK I decided that my next car would be an EV through my business.

    Pre-lockdown I had switched between a Model S then I-Pace and in May settled on the M3P. Why???? Model S tech seemed a bit old hat although still one handsome car and perhaps just a little to big for me, plus probably not a great image given the current clime. The I-Pace looked on paper a great choice but still very conventional inside and light years behind Tesla for technology. Lots of review reading and Youtube time and there is no question the Model 3 is probably the best EV out there and then there is of course the Tesla SC network which is way ahead of the infrastructure other EV's have to rely on. After all it is probably the biggest consideration.

    The whole buying and delivery process has been the most refreshing experience I have had procuring a car in years. No suited BS or sir malarky, no haggling or to and fro dealerships just wasting time in gleaming sales machines full of suits. The whole extra and option process was just so tiresome and a feeling of being ripped off for everything.

    Enter Tesla. What model, colour of paint and interior, SR, LR or Performance, 100 quid down, car ordered, job done, wait for your car to be matched, that simple. Why do, and have we, put up with the old way for so long when it can be this simple.

    Friday 4th September car transporter turns up, drops the car off, quick signature and the car is mine. How simple again????

    Now the car, where do I start. Firstly the interior is like nothing else on the market, it is unique. For me it is the most cleanest and functional place to sit there is. With the white interior and glass roof the space is amazing you do not feel you are sitting in a small saloon. The whole driver interface is just so easy and after an hour I felt like I had lived in it for years, it is that easy to navigate around and don't get me started on the screen speed of it. It shows the German systems up hands down for their sluggishness and archaic menus. Ventilation is on another level with such a controllable single vest instead of the old flappy things we have lived with for years. And it works.

    The whole entertainment system with Netflix, Youtube, the full browser, Spotify, the games, mapping and the 4K quality of the screen is again just amazing. Sound is the best I have experienced and in the past has included B&O and Bose in cars.

    The built is dash cam and sentry modes are such a nice touch and the quality of the cameras is again very very good. To just run through past trips and view also people starring into the car and reactions is funny.

    Critics have been scathing about the lack of speedo in front of the driver and the whole in the middle thing is wrong. My first car memory was of my Dads Mini Cooper S in 1969, guess where the speedo was. I have not had an issue with at all in the M3P.

    EV's are becoming increasingly know for the power and the delivery of torque in the M3P in brutal, it has been timed at 2.9 (3.2 official) 0-60 and it just pulls and pulls at any speed. It literally is like a scalextrix car it is that instant and smooth. Search Youtube and see what it does to the other premium fast saloons and supercars.

    Handling is sure footed and planted with its 4WD system. Switch to track mode, stick the power to the rear and it will drift like a proper rear wheel drive machine.

    Running costs, 100 mile charge is costing approx £2.00 to £2.50 on our current tariff which is incredible for a 490bhp car, its peanuts.

    So the downsides. The quality of the panel fit is here and there in places and I have couple of very small dodgy bits of paint. The closing of the doors, trunk and boot do not make that nice German clunk. No power lift on the boot, what the hell is that about. The look..... its like the designers had months on the side and rear which to me are just stunning and then 5 minutes on the front, it one ugly f$@ker, like its been punched hard in it's face.

    I have logged my concerns on the app (again fantastic and it WORKS) and it will be interesting to see what the aftersales is like. Not holding my breath though.....

    All in all, 10 days in I have so made the right choice the car is just so refreshing to use. I fully appreciate it will not be everyones cuppa and there many many Elon and Tesla haters out there and true petrol heads will shudder at the thought of this silent motoring but it IS the future.

    This company is a baby in comparison to all other major car makers out there and Tesla have just ripped 'the book' up and started a fresh and after years of being sniggered at I am sure all the other car manufacturers are beginning to sit up and think......

    Some pic's

    Pitch


    musical notes smileys






  2. #2
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    Good job Timefactors isn't open all the time or when waiting st the lights you might get bored and end up buying some of Eddie's master pieces. Great review, I'm thinking of going for the cyber truck or Y. I nearly bought a 3 longrange, in the end got an A5 love my car but think I made a mistake, the buying process broke me, what a jolly nightmare. The wife has a model X and loves it and the sound system blows the B&O in the A5 away.

    Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Well chaps after a lot of thought I took the massive leap into the unknown and decided that my next motor would be an EV.

    Background... I have over the last 20 odd years predominantly had VAG group cars in the garage (exception 1 BMW) with new A4's, A5's, A6, Golf GTI's, Golf R's (wifey's current) the latest Q7 and my last car the New XC90. All of these have been my own cars due to BIK and the last six years PCH's.

    With the tax breaks, grants and BIK I decided that my next car would be an EV through my business.

    Pre-lockdown I had switched between a Model S then I-Pace and in May settled on the M3P. Why???? Model S tech seemed a bit old hat although still one handsome car and perhaps just a little to big for me, plus probably not a great image given the current clime. The I-Pace looked on paper a great choice but still very conventional inside and light years behind Tesla for technology. Lots of review reading and Youtube time and there is no question the Model 3 is probably the best EV out there and then there is of course the Tesla SC network which is way ahead of the infrastructure other EV's have to rely on. After all it is probably the biggest consideration.

    The whole buying and delivery process has been the most refreshing experience I have had procuring a car in years. No suited BS or sir malarky, no haggling or to and fro dealerships just wasting time in gleaming sales machines full of suits. The whole extra and option process was just so tiresome and a feeling of being ripped off for everything.

    Enter Tesla. What model, colour of paint and interior, SR, LR or Performance, 100 quid down, car ordered, job done, wait for your car to be matched, that simple. Why do, and have we, put up with the old way for so long when it can be this simple.

    Friday 4th September car transporter turns up, drops the car off, quick signature and the car is mine. How simple again????

    Now the car, where do I start. Firstly the interior is like nothing else on the market, it is unique. For me it is the most cleanest and functional place to sit there is. With the white interior and glass roof the space is amazing you do not feel you are sitting in a small saloon. The whole driver interface is just so easy and after an hour I felt like I had lived in it for years, it is that easy to navigate around and don't get me started on the screen speed of it. It shows the German systems up hands down for their sluggishness and archaic menus. Ventilation is on another level with such a controllable single vest instead of the old flappy things we have lived with for years. And it works.

    The whole entertainment system with Netflix, Youtube, the full browser, Spotify, the games, mapping and the 4K quality of the screen is again just amazing. Sound is the best I have experienced and in the past has included B&O and Bose in cars.

    The built is dash cam and sentry modes are such a nice touch and the quality of the cameras is again very very good. To just run through past trips and view also people starring into the car and reactions is funny.

    Critics have been scathing about the lack of speedo in front of the driver and the whole in the middle thing is wrong. My first car memory was of my Dads Mini Cooper S in 1969, guess where the speedo was. I have not had an issue with at all in the M3P.

    EV's are becoming increasingly know for the power and the delivery of torque in the M3P in brutal, it has been timed at 2.9 (3.2 official) 0-60 and it just pulls and pulls at any speed. It literally is like a scalextrix car it is that instant and smooth. Search Youtube and see what it does to the other premium fast saloons and supercars.

    Handling is sure footed and planted with its 4WD system. Switch to track mode, stick the power to the rear and it will drift like a proper rear wheel drive machine.

    Running costs, 100 mile charge is costing approx £2.00 to £2.50 on our current tariff which is incredible for a 490bhp car, its peanuts.

    So the downsides. The quality of the panel fit is here and there in places and I have couple of very small dodgy bits of paint. The closing of the doors, trunk and boot do not make that nice German clunk. No power lift on the boot, what the hell is that about. The look..... its like the designers had months on the side and rear which to me are just stunning and then 5 minutes on the front, it one ugly f$@ker, like its been punched hard in it's face.

    I have logged my concerns on the app (again fantastic and it WORKS) and it will be interesting to see what the aftersales is like. Not holding my breath though.....

    All in all, 10 days in I have so made the right choice the car is just so refreshing to use. I fully appreciate it will not be everyones cuppa and there many many Elon and Tesla haters out there and true petrol heads will shudder at the thought of this silent motoring but it IS the future.

    This company is a baby in comparison to all other major car makers out there and Tesla have just ripped 'the book' up and started a fresh and after years of being sniggered at I am sure all the other car manufacturers are beginning to sit up and think......

    Some pic's

    Pitch


    musical notes smileys





    Just done the same Iíve traded the Bentley v8 for a taycan 4s so far so good all done through the business makes sense for the next 3 years at least then who knows

  4. #4
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    Well done on making the leap, more people need to know how great EVs are and if you really analyse your journeys they do fit with a lot of lifestyles.

    I've had my I-Pace since June and it's fantastic. Lots of long trips undertaken and I don't regret the decision.

    Would like to see a review of the Taycan by a real owner. Lining that one up when the Jag needs to go back...

  5. #5
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    You mean you have to lift the bootlid yourself?
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmeat View Post
    Well done on making the leap, more people need to know how great EVs are and if you really analyse your journeys they do fit with a lot of lifestyles.

    I've had my I-Pace since June and it's fantastic. Lots of long trips undertaken and I don't regret the decision.

    Would like to see a review of the Taycan by a real owner. Lining that one up when the Jag needs to go back...

    Hmmm I think Iím real at least I was the last time I looked

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    You mean you have to lift the bootlid yourself?
    How do people manage with their front door?

  8. #8
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    Thanks for sharing Pitch. It's an awesome car and I'm sure very fun to drive. I've been looking at the M3LR as my next car too. Just waiting for a trade in value for my existing Model S which is coming to 6 years old now. I would get the Model Y but no idea when that will be ready - sounds more like late 2021 at least.

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  9. #9
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    Hello, thanks for this review. Iím glad that youíre so happy with your purchase!

    Please would you kindly post some daytime photo of the inside, as itís hard to get a real feel for it from your photos; which look awesome and stylish but I canít really see much. Also of the glass roof from inside.

    I know nothing of these cars; you suggests that thereís no Ďoptionsí ie everything is included that is available - I like this approach! Is it fully electric? No mechanical engine at all?

    Looks great! Thanks for taking the time to share! Enjoy!

  10. #10
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    Also can you share about the benefits/cons of buying through a business?



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    Last edited by KingKitega; 16th September 2020 at 08:45.

  11. #11
    i remember being behind what i think was an 's' model tesla a few months ago on my motorbike - to say its acceleration from 60> surprised me was an understatement for what is quite a big and heavy car.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matdaytona View Post
    Hmmm I think Iím real at least I was the last time I looked
    Fair point, I meant not someone on the internet paid to do a positive review...

  13. #13
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    An EV would suit our driving habits perfectly, but regrettably any larger EV is currently still too expensive to purchase. So petrol it is for the foreseeable future.

  14. #14
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    Maybe it's like bringing Apollo 13 back to earth, the auto boot lift was the one task that tipped the power-bank over the limit. It's not necessary so had to be ditched.

    I've just built a top spec Model S and a top spec M5 on their respective websites. The M5 comes in £18k more expensive than the Tesla with poorer performance, technical kit and warranty. However the M5 makes an amazing noise which might be worth £18 to some people. I suppose when you're financing £116k over four or five years, an extra £18k won't make too much difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    No power lift on the boot, what the hell is that about.



  15. #15
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    I have had an e-tron for the last 8 months and canít imagine getting another ICE car now. In fact we are going to replace my wifeís fiesta with a VW e-up too.
    I donít think I would like the central instrument panel on the Tesla, the lack of any noise to indicate speed and the speedo out of sight line is likely to lead to inadvertently speeding in my opinion, but then I donít even like driving a car without a head up display!
    There is definitely a lot that the big car manufacturers can learn from Tesla such as keeping the product simple and not having lots of unnecessary options. Tesla are consistently at the bottom of the reliability rankings though so there is plenty that they could learn from the likes of Honda and Toyota on build quality.



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  16. #16
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    Same. I've just replaced my car with a five year old diesel. Lovely car and everything I need but I wanted an EV. In my budget there wasn't anything available other than maybe a first gen Leaf which doesn't suit our needs. I think in around ten years we'll see the used market serve up affordable, decent EVs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    An EV would suit our driving habits perfectly, but regrettably any larger EV is currently still too expensive to purchase. So petrol it is for the foreseeable future.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    An EV would suit our driving habits perfectly, but regrettably any larger EV is currently still too expensive to purchase. So petrol it is for the foreseeable future.
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Same. I've just replaced my car with a five year old diesel. Lovely car and everything I need but I wanted an EV. In my budget there wasn't anything available other than maybe a first gen Leaf which doesn't suit our needs. I think in around ten years we'll see the used market serve up affordable, decent EVs.
    My daughter has just bought an MG ZS EV in top spec for £22,000. Sheís paying £280 pm but bearing in mind she spends approx £150 in fuel, that brings the effective cost down below £200 per month.

    Theyíre doing the Excite (lower spec), pre reg 70 plate, zero miles in white for just under £20k in some dealerships at the moment.

  18. #18
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    Regardless of the good and bad points of a Tesla, their charging point network and the time it takes to charge beats every other manufacturer hands down. So much so that I am surprised none of the big ones have successfully found a way to compete with the network, or even better for the consumer found a way to licence access to it.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  19. #19
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    Youíre right Marc, the Tesla is certainly far and away the best option for anyone who regularly does high mileage journeys.

    I donít think that the other manufacturers really care about charging infrastructure in the same way that they donít care about refuelling ICE vehicles.

    On another point, my brother bought a model X through his company and says heíll save over 50% of the vehicle costs in tax/fuel savings over three years which will more than offset the depreciation. Heís therefore getting three years free motoring (except servicing and insurance).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Youíre right Marc, the Tesla is certainly far and away the best option for anyone who regularly does high mileage journeys.

    I donít think that the other manufacturers really care about charging infrastructure in the same way that they donít care about refuelling ICE vehicles.

    On another point, my brother bought a model X through his company and says heíll save over 50% of the vehicle costs in tax/fuel savings over three years which will more than offset the depreciation. Heís therefore getting three years free motoring (except servicing and insurance).
    Anyone got an idea of servicing costs on EVs as it surely should be a lot cheaper than with Mechanicals

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Regardless of the good and bad points of a Tesla, their charging point network and the time it takes to charge beats every other manufacturer hands down. So much so that I am surprised none of the big ones have successfully found a way to compete with the network, or even better for the consumer found a way to licence access to it.
    This is only an issue if you regularly drive 200+ miles in a day. I have used a public charger twice in the 8 months I have had my e-tron and in both instances a 50kwh charger was available and had sufficiently topped up the battery in the time it took to have a coffee and loo break


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    Anyone got an idea of servicing costs on EVs as it surely should be a lot cheaper than with Mechanicals
    Tesla are quite pricey I believe. I stopped having my Nissan serviced once itís warranty had expired because itís a con. Itís just a quick check over with brake fluid replacement bi annually.

    The MOT is far more thorough than the checks they carry out during a ďserviceĒ!

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Regardless of the good and bad points of a Tesla, their charging point network and the time it takes to charge beats every other manufacturer hands down. So much so that I am surprised none of the big ones have successfully found a way to compete with the network, or even better for the consumer found a way to licence access to it.

    with regard to infrastructure i think that it is just that Tesla started first, also the other manufacturers are sitting back waiting for the independents to pick it up, Power, credit card and fuel companies, I think this is a floored plan.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    You’re right Marc, the Tesla is certainly far and away the best option for anyone who regularly does high mileage journeys.

    I don’t think that the other manufacturers really care about charging infrastructure in the same way that they don’t care about refuelling ICE vehicles.

    On another point, my brother bought a model X through his company and says he’ll save over 50% of the vehicle costs in tax/fuel savings over three years which will more than offset the depreciation. He’s therefore getting three years free motoring (except servicing and insurance).
    You are correct in terms of their current lack of interest. It's a mistake that will cost them dearly only because that's the crack Elon used to flood the market (OK, flood is probably excessive, but it helped my analogy of the crack ).

    Yes a private network can be set up: but the charging speed of Tesla isn't matched. Stuie-t is absolutely right when he says it only affects those who drive longer distances. But it is still a considerable market, especially for Merc, BMW, and the likes.

    I personally don't believe EV are the future, but they are a step towards it and will soon replace ICEs for commuters. Tesla should commercialise a dedicated taxi, because at the moment no other EV can touch this market.
    Last edited by Saint-Just; 16th September 2020 at 11:35.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  25. #25
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    I think battery life will be a key determinant - not in the sense of how many miles per charge, but degradation over time.

    AS EV's get older, the financial exposure to replacement batteries increases. Over time there will surely be better battery life, aftermarket options, etc. At present if you have a 5 to 8 year warranty on a battery for a car you might own for a number of years, you need to keep one eye on the cost IF the battery pack did fail as am guessing the replacement cost could exceed the value of the car at that stage.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    I think battery life will be a key determinant - not in the sense of how many miles per charge, but degradation over time.

    AS EV's get older, the financial exposure to replacement batteries increases. Over time there will surely be better battery life, aftermarket options, etc. At present if you have a 5 to 8 year warranty on a battery for a car you might own for a number of years, you need to keep one eye on the cost IF the battery pack did fail as am guessing the replacement cost could exceed the value of the car at that stage.
    Battery life and degradation really isnít an issue. Itís doubtful anyone will ever have to replace one. Itís certainly less of an issue than the potential to have to replace the engine or gearbox on an old ICE.

    Also, whilst a battery does degrade, it does so slowly so even if your early Leaf eventually gets down to a forty mile range, itís still perfectly adequate for someone who does only 30mikes a day.

  27. #27
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    You lost me at "The whole entertainment system with Netflix, Youtube, the full browser, Spotify, the games, mapping and the 4K quality of the screen". Until then I thought that I was reading a review of a motor car.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You are correct in terms of their current lack of interest. It's a mistake that will cost them dearly only because that's the crack Elon used to flood the market (OK, flood is probably excessive, but it helped my analogy of the crack ).

    Yes a private network can be set up: but the charging speed of Tesla isn't matched. Stuie-t is absolutely right when he says it only affects those who drive longer distances. But it is still a considerable market, especially for Merc, BMW, and the likes.

    I personally don't believe EV are the future, but they are a step towards it and will soon replace ICEs for commuters. Tesla should market a dedicated taxi, because at the moment no there EV can touch this market.
    11kw chargers don't add up, unless they start building more power stations

    Hydrogen is the future, either fuel cell of I/C, Toyota have hung their hat on it and it does make sense, also the world will run out of the minerals to make batteries very quickly, there is a rumour going around that already there is not enough resources to replace all of the batteries in the current installed base.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Battery life and degradation really isnít an issue. Itís doubtful anyone will ever have to replace one. Itís certainly less of an issue than the potential to have to replace the engine or gearbox on an old ICE.

    Also, whilst a battery does degrade, it does so slowly so even if your early Leaf eventually gets down to a forty mile range, itís still perfectly adequate for someone who does only 30mikes a day.
    That's interesting, like I suspect most, I really don't know an awful lot about EV's. I did read somewhere years ago that battery packs are substantially more than the cost of say a petrol engine, so the analogy I was thinking of is whilst you can buy a reconditioned engine for an old petrol for a few thousand, is the financial exposure to a failing battery pack £20 or £30k for an EV performance model with an extended range??.

    I've just replaced my old Iphone because the battery degradation meant I needed to charge it twice a day - agree some will still pay a cheap price for it if they just use a phone in emergencies, many could not cope with that. So very happy to be "educated" in this thread on real world facts over what to expect for a life out of a battery pack and if it does fail for whatever reason post warranty, what the cost is. I presume battery warranties must be increasing too if longevity is not an issue or maybe that does not suit the manufacturers model to encourage churn into new vehicles? - circular argument as if battery degradation / costs are not a genuine concern and backed up by a suitable warranty, that has to underpin used values at which point you aren't looking at taking such a hit in changing car every 2 to 3 years.

    Nice write up too OP, Model 3 looks lovely.

  30. #30
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    I agree with hydrogen being the future.

    But I would like to see a credible source for that kind of rumours ;) as Li-ion batteries can be recycled almost totally.
    There is a cost, of course, and for the moment itís cheaper to mine the lithium. But the technology is there to recycle it.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    11kw chargers don't add up, unless they start building more power stations

    Hydrogen is the future, either fuel cell of I/C, Toyota have hung their hat on it and it does make sense, also the world will run out of the minerals to make batteries very quickly, there is a rumour going around that already there is not enough resources to replace all of the batteries in the current installed base.
    I disagree about hydrogen, itís a dead end IMHO. It makes absolutely no sense to use electricity to produce hydrogen (at about 25% efficiency) and then turn it back into electricity to drive the car.

    Iím sure there will be applications for it but itíll never be mainstream.

    Iím not sure what youíre trying to say re the 11kw chargers. If itís that youíll need many more power generating sources to run them, then, once again, hydrogen will need three times as many as EV.

    I also believe that Toyota have been incredibly short sighted in hanging their hat on hydrogen and also realise that they have been. Thatís the reason theyíve indoctrinated (almost) the whole population to believe that ďself charging hybridĒ is somehow better than EV.

  32. #32

    Tesla Model 3 Performance *Review*

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I disagree about hydrogen, itís a dead end IMHO. It makes absolutely no sense to use electricity to produce hydrogen (at about 25% efficiency) and then turn it back into electricity to drive the car.

    Iím sure there will be applications for it but itíll never be mainstream.

    Iím not sure what youíre trying to say re the 11kw chargers. If itís that youíll need many more power generating sources to run them, then, once again, hydrogen will need three times as many as EV.

    I also believe that Toyota have been incredibly short sighted in hanging their hat on hydrogen and also realise that they have been. Thatís the reason theyíve indoctrinated (almost) the whole population to believe that ďself charging hybridĒ is somehow better than EV.
    Less than 5% of hydrogen is produced using electricity and even here the efficiency is >60%.

    I think itís far from a dead end.

  33. #33
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    An EV would suit our driving habits perfectly, but regrettably any larger EV is currently still too expensive to purchase. So petrol it is for the foreseeable future.
    I got a plug in hybrid Volvo Xc90, works for me as most journeys locally are on electric but can go further if needed on petrol. Looked at the Tesla Model X but over double the price.

  34. #34
    Craftsman
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    I looked at the plug-in Volvos, but also rather dear - in particular the insurance!

  35. #35
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Less than 5% of hydrogen is produced using electricity and even here the efficiency is >60%.

    I think itís far from a dead end.
    The scientists seem to disagree re efficiency.


    https://insideevs.com/news/406676/ba...cy-comparison/

  36. #36
    Grand Master
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54170207

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The scientists seem to disagree re efficiency.


    https://insideevs.com/news/406676/ba...cy-comparison/

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The scientists seem to disagree re efficiency.


    https://insideevs.com/news/406676/ba...cy-comparison/
    A clearly biased report, which conveniently ignores the fact that very little hydrogen is produced by electrolysis.

  38. #38
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Iím not sure of the point youíre making there David, that article has nothing to do with efficiency of either hydrogen production or EVs.

    Your article refers to plug in hybrids not being as efficient as claimed and thatís due to them having small batteries and therefore running on on fossil fuel most of the time.

  39. #39
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    You mean you have to lift the bootlid yourself?
    *shudders*

  40. #40
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    A clearly biased report, which conveniently ignores the fact that very little hydrogen is produced by electrolysis.
    Whilst itís written by the EV side of the argument, itís hard to deny that using electricity to produce hydrogen in order to produce electricity to power a vehicle, has got to be far less efficient than just using the electricity to power the vehicle in the first place.

    Iíd be interested in seeing your source showing how hydrogen is produced without electricity and also hue much of it is produced this way; I canít seem to find that information.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    A good friend of mine in France got himself a Hybrid Yaris for his visits. He said on electric power alone the range was ridiculous (20 km (unless I translated it in miles in my memory and he said 35 km)
    He is still quite happy with it, though, perfect for his use .
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Whilst itís written by the EV side of the argument, itís hard to deny that using electricity to produce hydrogen in order to produce electricity to power a vehicle, has got to be far less efficient than just using the electricity to power the vehicle in the first place.

    Iíd be interested in seeing your source showing how hydrogen is produced without electricity and also hue much of it is produced this way; I canít seem to find that information.
    Thatís only an argument if that is the case.

    Wikipedia Hydrogen Production, not hard to find.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

  43. #43
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    A good friend of mine in France got himself a Hybrid Yaris for his visits. He said on electric power alone the range was ridiculous (20 km (unless I translated it in miles in my memory and he said 35 km)
    He is still quite happy with it, though, perfect for his use .
    The wife was shocked to see a hybrid Merc C Class on her company car list, looking into it the electric part of it gave a 18 mile range, then it reverted to a thirsty 200hp petrol car. I guess they are a bit of a lip service spec to legislation to get into a efficient tax bracket?
    Cheers..
    Jase

  44. #44
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Once we start mining Tritium on the moon, hydrogen problem solved!

    Oh and let's not forget Mr.Fusion

  45. #45
    Glad you went for it in the end!

    I am a year in and still loving the experience!

    Good colour combo as well.

  46. #46
    Good review and my thoughts exactly regarding the pros and cons of this car, pick the same model up next Tuesday.

    The cable run for the EV charger at home has proved a challenge!

  47. #47
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thatís only an argument if that is the case.

    Wikipedia Hydrogen Production, not hard to find.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
    Even using steam reforming etc, youíre still using an awful lot more energy than just using electricity to power the car.

    The simple fact is, there are inefficiencies in each process and the more processes you go through, the more energy is used to get to the same end point.

  48. #48
    Master
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    Great review mate - funnily enough we were just talking about this at work.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Even using steam reforming etc, youíre still using an awful lot more energy than just using electricity to power the car.

    The simple fact is, there are inefficiencies in each process and the more processes you go through, the more energy is used to get to the same end point.
    There arenít loads of processes and efficiency isnít everything:-

    Refuelling/charging (and hence range) far more convenient with hydrogen.

    The relative cost of vehicles is a red herring as hydrogen vehicles are relatively novel and doubt a fuel cell will be more expensive than a large set of batteries.

  50. #50
    Craftsman
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    EVs are a no brainer as a company car if you can live with the range limitations, given the BIK savings. The Tesla 3 performance is available on our car scheme for a net £500/month over 3 years, by the time you factor in that also includes maintenance, insurance, and no down payment it probably is not far off half the cost on a PCH.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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