Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by damperman
Six year old model S are just dipping below £30k. They were about £60k new.
They really do hold value well, certainly much better than ICE.
What are the resale values like on these Tesla models. I’ve heard that they are not that good.
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Six year old model S are just dipping below £30k. They were about £60k new.
They really do hold value well, certainly much better than ICE.
Hmmm, might have a look around, see what’s going. I do fancy a Tesla. But have been looking at the VW
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With hybrids there might be the next scandal brewing... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54170207
I don’t think so. The plug in hybrids can be very economical if used correctly. Unfortunately, most are bought as company cars to reduce BIK and are just used as normal cars without ever being plugged in.
It’s not the manufacturers’ fault, more the government for erroneously incentivising company car users.
Glad you love it & see very honest thoughts, especially the front...we described it previously as a frog that had been whacked on the head, all other views are great though.
I love the tech on these, love the drive but seriously miss the noise of a NA engine, turbo stuff less so.
When I had a ltd company it worked out very cost effective to mitigate corp tax against a 'free' car, so was sorely tempted but felt I wasn't going to be doing what I did longer term (variety of family reasons), so returned to corporate PAYE...still love the torque & instant grunt of them & it is just full on grin inducing! Even when I go in my friends who have S / 3 / I-pace, they all make me laugh like an idiot of full 'throttle', or whatever it should be called!
That shine is astounding too, but knowing your approach to pizzas am guessing a few photos & angles until you found the sweet spot lol
This is one of the real paradigms - the perception is being engineered this way as there are limited options for full EV. Coupled to that, I will never consider a £1000 a month (Tesla) lease as a viable option for use of a car as a private individual. For a business user the financials are very different.
When you add the time for the vehicle to be truly carbon neutral the numbers are still not great in terms of production, use and disposal.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Nearly all the plugin hybrids have too small an electric range, or too many conditions where the engine cuts in. The BMW i3 Range Extender is the only one that has a decent electric only range plus the ability to use petrol to top up the battery when needed. It gives you 2 meaningful refueling options on a long trip.
Love the Model 3 too, a neighbour has one in the black/cream and it looks fantastic.
I'm loving this Tesla - great review - really really interesting - thanks - but for someone who has just bought a load shifting secondhand diesel estate for 10K and regularly does a return trip of 250 miles when will an EV match these requirements? 2 / 3 / 5 years?? I'd love one but prices are just too much at the moment..
The Kia E Niro fits that requirement. Just.
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Thanks for the tip Jaytip, i’ll take a look.
Bugger, I should have been more clear. It covers the range and load lugging abilities bit but it’s quite a bit more than 10K though unfortunately.
Like the i3 don't the Vauxhall Ampera and Chevrolet Volt (same car basically) do the same?
I was interested, but if I bought one personally and the battery capacity decreased significantly after 5 to 10 years there would be difficulty selling on surely?
There you are, a nine year old Nisssn Leaf with the 24kwhr battery.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143669730275
Practically all new EVs sold today have at least double the battery capacity of the early Leafs so even when down to 50% capacity (10-15 years possibly?), they’ll still have at least the battery capacity of a brand new original Leaf.
True, but when there are more charge points, and more EVs on the road, won't it make it more difficult to sell as people will be more wary of battery replacement cost after a certain reduction in capacity has been reached? What to do with old battery and replacement costs?
Recycle them?
The more EV on the road, the more valuable it will be to collect the used batteries and recycle them.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
What the manufacturers should do, but probably won’t, is make the battery a easily removable block for replacement when it needs it on a trade in basis, the rest of the car has few things that can’t be consumable type replacement. They won’t do that though I guess as built in obsolescence is part of the business plan.
( I may be wrong of course, but I’m a cynic)
Cheers..
Jase
A few years back, I considered a CR-Z.
I had a long chat with a dealer and I think it's around £1k to replace the battery.
Maybe this?
Well the responses chaps really surprised me, I was not expecting such a raft of positive comments regards the Tesla and EV’s in general.
Tesla being Tesla, 12 days in and I woke yesterday morning to find a new software update had landed in the car. Amongst other bits and bobs the speed sign graphics are incredibly clear and the ACC and AP are picking them up and recognising them and tweaking the limits accordingly. Cheers Elon, the car just improved some more.
Noted regards the lack of boot lifter which is fine with me but something I think a £60k car should have.
Three new passengers taken out today and genuinely blow away by the tech, comfort and of course the power. The one peddle driving seems to astonish people.
A couple of further interior pics and please do pm me if anyone would like any more info or if local to me and would like a spin.
Many thanks gents for all your kind words
Pitch
Batteries really are a non issue.
The car will fall apart around the battery before it becomes unusable.
The cost of replacement is about as relevant (less probably) as the cost of replacing the engine and gearbox in an ICE. No one gets hung up about that when buying a car!
That’s stunning Pitch, it looks like science fiction!
Beautiful car,( though perhaps less so front the front) and a lovely interior too.
Interested in the "one pedal" comment - can you elaborate please? Always thought it had a conventional pedal layout like an auto.
Spot on regards the front, god knows what they were thinking.
There is of course brake and accelerator peddle but when you take your foot of the accelerator the cars comes to a complete standstill and pretty quick. You can of course feather the peddle and the car slows whilst regenerating the battery. I drove 20+ miles to Norwich on Saturday and did not touch the brake until I parked in the multi storey car park. Brake dust on the wheels is a thing of the past.
Pitch
Thanks, didn't know that. I thought that once off the accelerator, the car would "coast" similar to an old fashioned auto.
By using the motor as a brake, the kinetic energy of the car in motion can be converted back to electrical energy to be reused later and so giving much greater mileage from the battery.
In my van, I typically do 33% of my mileage using regenerated energy.
In practice, it feels like strong engine braking in a conventional ICE.
Tesla had plans to offer battery swapping to aid longer journeys back in the day, done by robots at drive through centers similar to car washes.
https://youtu.be/H5V0vL3nnHY
There was just no demand for it apparently.
I know that you’re asking about end of life swap outs, but it was just to say it can be done relatively easily.
My e-Golf battery has an 8 year/100k warranty, so it’s VWs problem if anything goes wrong with it.
A number of EVs have flappy paddles on the steering wheel to vary the amount of regen. With the regen turned down it feels like the car will just coast for ever in perpetual motion, at maximum it slows the car pretty quickly. I tend to have it off on the motorway, maximum around town. It’s a very different way of driving, in particular when you are pushing on it’s great how you can finely control your speed either faster or slower through bends with just small movements of your right foot!
I also find that I use the adaptive cruise much more than I used to in an ICE car, it seems to really help with the efficiency.
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Recycling lithium batteries is extremely difficult and currently only a very small percentage are recycled. I asked about this recently on a Radio 4 phone in and the ‘expert’ view was that at 8-10 years car batteries would be changed out and the old ones used in domestic situations for storage of solar power.
Availability of lithium isn’t really the issue - the other key element in battery manufacture is cobalt - which is not only relatively scarce but also tends to come from tricky places like the DRC where is is frequently mined using child labour....
This just popped up on my news feed. I don’t think I could place enough trust in my car.
https://apple.news/AhCEUVC2TRU60sSjVl6mjDA
Cheers buddy and being a Tesla I am positive the battery will out last the car LOL.
Lot's of if's, what's and why for's for batteries on the Tesla M3P review, perhaps I should start a "EV Battery Discussion" thread..... Just mentioning it.....
Ta
Pitch
Cobalt is used in all sorts of things, including so called ‘super alloys’ used in aircraft turbines and other critical applications, medical joints/replacements, the desulphurisation of petrol as well as lithium batteries, the majority of which until very recently were going into mobile devices and other electronics, so it’s unfair to single out EVs as the bad guys.
There are several cobalt free lithium batteries under evaluation and it’s expected that Tesla will be the first to market. Cobalt is expensive stuff and avoiding its use would help lower battery prices.
We shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good in this regard.
Sorry - not my intent. I’m actually considering an EV myself.
However not unreasonable to note that there are downsides to what is largely an environmentally great solution.
I drove one once and was genuinely impressed by the speed of the thing.
Once you get over that party trick and study the car you notice it performs well as an all-round saloon car. It is very futuristic and non-conventional as Pitch's pics show. But it is a very composed and standard saloon car when it wants to be.
Great review Pitch.
I wasn’t having a go either, I’m on my third EV now and I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been asked about the Cobalt issue, which is surprising. Almost sometimes before they ask how far it goes on a charge and how long it takes!
I’ll be honest, I didn’t buy mine for any green credentials, I got it because I think they’re technically interesting and very nice to drive. The fact my ‘petrol station’ is now on my drive is a plus, I haven’t visited one in years now, unless it’s also got a rapid charger in the forecourt.
The OPs Tesla is lovely, and a proper performance car, and the Tesla charging network is good, although it’s still not omnipresent and you may find you need to divert to one on longer journeys.
Fortunately, you can still use the other networks out there, Instavolt in particular have been quietly building a really good network of rapid chargers in banks of 2 to 8 chargers, reliable and reasonably priced to use too.
The new ID.3 will be on my shortlist for me, if it isn’t Tesla shaped, the bigger batteries will make public charging infrequent on all but the longest journeys.
Can Tesla’s be charged using the regular motorway fast chargers or do they have to go to the Tesla charging stations?
There really should be standard chargers - imagine if every brand of petrol car needed it’s own pump.
Most new EVs use type 2 and CCS for charging (one socket on the car accepts both plugs).
The Chademo/type one chargers are going the way of Betamax.
The Tesla supercharger network uses CCS I believe.
Currently, most rapid chargers have suitable leads to cope with any EV, these will obviously be much simpler once the single standard has been fully adopted. However, induction charging (either static or imbedded into the road surface) will hopefully become the norm, thus eliminating the need for leads altogether.
Watched a few videos and just seems a nightmare of different charging cards/systems even if leads are the same.
Wishful thinking with the embedded chargers, just won't happen.
Again, it’s getting better. Whilst there are still machines requiring membership of different networks, many chargers are now online on a PAYG basis.
The only two that I regularly use these days take contactless payment via credit or debit card in the same way as a “pay at the pump” in a petrol station.
It’s also only a consideration if you need to charge away from home; 99.9% of my charging is done outside my garage door.
Going back to my last post, the first picture here is chademo and type one in my nissan, the second is CCS/type 2 with a type 2 plug in on my daughters new MG.
Two of my granddaughters stayed last night and the fun they had was amazing in the Tesla playing games and using the emissions app. The giggling and laughing was lovely to see.
Downside........ waking me up at the crack of dawn asking if they can sit in the Tesla. .......
The car that keeps on giving fun.
Pitch
That last story and photo is great.
Very expensive iPad for them but a lovely pic.
This thread has me looking fora Tesla now.
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The M3 can use any rapid charger with a CCS connector. Regularly see them alongside me on Instavolt and Ionity chargers.
Are we saying there's no cassette player? Rubbish!
Two of my granddaughters stayed last night and the fun they had was amazing in the Tesla playing games and using the emissions app. The giggling and laughing was lovely to see.
Downside........ waking me up at the crack of dawn asking if they can sit in the Tesla. .......
The car that keeps on giving fun.
Pitch
You may know about this already but I have a wireless controller plugged into one of the usb ports that allows me to play all the games. Handy when you are waiting at a charger!
I would love a Tesla,I like pretty much everything about them, they look cool, the perforamce, the tech, etc.
The issue is the wife is so anti any EV, all because of the issues we had with her Prius, the battery pack died, twice. We bought the car second hand from Toyota, it was approved used. We had it for quite along time, but jut when the Toyota warrent ran out the battery died. No problem, we replaced it and it was all fine, but it died again after 3 years or so. Every since then my wife will not even consider a EV.
I very recently swapped my M4 for a model 3 Performance. Putting the economics aside, I can honestly say I don’t ever remember being so impressed by a car.
In my humble opinion, this is the vehicular equivalent of the iPhone. An absolute game changer.
Yes, you can pick holes in it if you so desire, but, for me it’s an incredible achievement on a lot of levels. Early days perhaps, but interesting times. Make no mistake, we are watching Tesla cremate the car as we knew it. Viva la revolution!
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