Reply With QuotePre-covid a microbrand was a brand that only sold online, without any physical outlet presence. Post-covid, who knows? They might all get online and we would then have to find a new term for microbrands.
Looking at the August Friday thread has got me wondering about what actually constitutes a microbrand.
Steeldive gets the attention but I’m not sure that, in my eyes, they qualify as a microbrand or, possibly, even a brand at all. For me a microbrand has to be a small independent that doesn’t make huge numbers of watches and, even if they contract somebody else to make the watches, actually design them themselves. A quick search for Steeldive only brings up the UK reseller and the aliexpress shop and not much in the way of details about who is behind them. It looks to me as though the watches are exactly the same as any of a number produced by various so-called microbrands at a Chinese factory that just happen to have had the Steeldive name put on them.
Does that make Steeldive a brand, micro or otherwise, and does calling them a microbrand do a disservice to the likes of Zelos who design what seem to be much better watches themselves for not much more money?
Pre-covid a microbrand was a brand that only sold online, without any physical outlet presence. Post-covid, who knows? They might all get online and we would then have to find a new term for microbrands.
Not sure where the term “microbrands” from but in my opinion, the definition is arbitrary. There are big corporate brands owned by the big groups such as LVMH, Swatch, Chanel (owning 20% of F P Journe) and more independent brands like Gronefield, MB&F. I guess micro brands are just independents before they have a bigger sales volume!
BW,
Chi Kai
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I prefer the use of the word Independent for most rather than micro brand. Micro brand seems to be banded around for 'cheaper' watches using stock cases, basic customisation on dials etc.Originally Posted by Ctam
Yeah, there is that too. Agree on the general feeling that micro brands are not as expensive and not “haute horologie”.
BW,
Chi Kai
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Which I think is a bit snobbish - brands like Halios make some extremely good watches, definitely above your standard microbrand. Being lumped with that term feels a bit of injustice.
Yes, there are distinct segments within the micro brand group. Which is why I generally prefer discussing individual brands and models as opposed to broad classification! :-)
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For instance Steeldive has a pretty good ongoing thread, you know what you're getting for the money. And that is probably the answer for the OP!
Number of people behind the brand would also constitute micro IMO.
With micros its difficult to tell what some are trying to achieve, are they just people with a hobby or are they genuinely trying to create and grow a watch brand/business.
Stock being the main issue, perhaps a victim of their own success but brands like Helm selling out so quickly, producing watches in limited runs surely make it hard to sustain the brand given that people will end up looking elsewhere if you never have any stock.
In my view a Microbrand has a number of features
1) Independent designs - Immediately removes Steeldive as everything they make is a knock off design. Overt 'homages' aren't the sign of a brand, but obviously many watches are influenced by others.
2) Limited production - If you're making thousands of watches, there's nothing 'Micro' about you.
3) Relatively affordable - This gets a bit fuzzy, but just making 200 watches a year doesn't make you a microbrand if every one sells north of £10K - Ming are a microbrand in my mind, Jaquet Droz aren't.
4) Direct sale - I'm not 100% wedded to this one, but it seems to got with the territory.
5) Independent - You can't be a microbrand if you're owned by a watch group.
However you cut it, Steeldive aren't a micro brand in my view.
Steinhart? Mmmmm tricky - Too many Rolex-alikes for my taste, but they do have some independent designs and maybe too big?
CW too big, Helm yes, Sternglas yes, Timefactors yes, Helson yes, but in the Steinhart camp, but smaller.
Not trivial is it?
M
Last edited by snowman; 15th September 2020 at 15:19.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Some interesting ideas here. I wouldn’t include price as part of the criteria. The likes of Ming, Schofield and Garrick would also qualify for me and they’re not exactly on the cheap side.
Maybe I should have added bought in movement?
I see Ming and Schofield as Micros, but Garrick as an atelier, partly on price and partly on their in house movement.
It's hard to draw a line in the sand, but there's seems to be a gulf between Ming and Garrick.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Exactly the same as a micro brewery.
I don’t know what constitutes a micro brewery but they’re definitely the same.
While I generally agree that they have to be independent, I think of all of the Ickler sub brands as micro-brands (Ickler, Limes, Archimede, Defakto). Perhaps I’m wrong.
Ditto Spinnaker, Avi8, Dumas are co-owned by the same group.
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Oceanx and scurfa? Again online only with no in-store shop or or outlet.
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Last edited by bond; 15th September 2020 at 17:09.
Both have very different philosophies to horology - Garrick do a lot of work in-house (love their overall philosophy actually). Ming as a micro - technically yes, but they also sit in their own unique position by utilising a higher quality of suppliers than most microbrands. I don't really like using price as a great reason to classify. Tbh, I'd say both are pretty close to being classified as classical 'Independents'.
If we take price out - where do we put MB&F....
Poor customer service.
OTT excellent customer service.
Depends on the brand.
Science fiction?
I'd put them in the atelier category.
I guess that doesn't totally exclude them being micro brands though.
Xeric would be a possible example of that.
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Very much agree with your assessment!
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