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Thread: 2020 Submariner Date & BLNR STOLEN

  1. #1
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    2020 Submariner Date & BLNR STOLEN

    It's a long story but two of my watches have been stolen by deception by someone I thought I could trust. It turns out the guy is a career con man and I am the tip of the ice berg with the amount of companies and people he owes money to.

    The watches were stolen near Alicante in Spain where I am currently living, the person in question is dutch and although he is wanted in the Netherlands as well I have a feeling the watches may have made their way back there or my lawyer (who knows of this guy) said they will have been sold blackmarket and could pop up anywhere!

    2020 SUBMARINER DATE - FULL SET
    PURCHASE JUNE FROM GOLDSMITHS NEWCASTLE, UK.
    SERIAL: 94PE1254

    2020 GMT BLNR
    PURCHASE JUNE FROM GOLDSMITHS NEWCASTLE, UK.
    SERIAL: 57U3W461

    Large reward for the return of the watches, I suspect I will never see them again but trying to get the numbers out there so hopefully no one buys them unknowingly.
    If people could share this it would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Very sorry to hear of this, I would PM Haywood and ask if he can help to put them on the stolen register?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoodles View Post
    Very sorry to hear of this, I would PM Haywood and ask if he can help to put them on the stolen register?
    Good idea, my father actually purchased his Daytona from Haywood so fingers crossed he can help!

    I have everything crossed they will appear in the future but not holding my breath.

  4. #4
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    How sad, do you mind letting us know how they were stolen? May help others getting in the same trap...

    Hope you are covered by insurance or manage to recover them.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    How sad, do you mind letting us know how they were stolen? May help others getting in the same trap...

    Hope you are covered by insurance or manage to recover them.

    Its a very long story and I cant give all the info as of yet but this guy wont affect anyone online or the UK.
    He works in person on the Costa Blanca (and probably other Spanish towns), he was actually a neighbour of mine and we became quite friendly, he's in to watches, cars etc and put on a good show driving around in his Ferrari, X6, Sl500 which is all part of the plan.
    We agreed a deal and things turned sour but the watches had already gone (I was paid via transfer in person but he must have cancelled the minute he left), he kept in touch with me and came to my home again to make the payment, apologised and never once avoided me or my calls. This went on for a couple of weeks before I really started putting the pressure on and then he vanished! In the words of my lawyer 'the guy is like a magician, he gets what he can and then 'bang' he's gone'

    Turns out after speaking to locals and my lawyer he is well known, he will put on this front of wealth but in reality he has nothing and almost everything is stolen whether that be cars, furniture, jewellery or anything of value. One shop is owed over 50k.

    I run my own company and have done for 8 years, we often get people trying to pull a fast one but this guy was another level. In fact the criminal law firm I am using are actually owed money by him for a previous case.

    If anyone is in the region just be careful of a dutch guy in his mid 50's, his real name is Abraham but he might give you a fake name. He also has a 'driver' with him 80% of the time but this guy is in fact basically a body guard.

    You live and learn from your mistakes, it's a costly one and bitter pill to swallow but they might show up one day even if that is 10-20 years down the line if they go to Rolex for a service.

  6. #6
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    very sad to hear your news I hope that you either get recovery or insurance will assist...

    reminds me of 'Dirty Rotten Scoundrels'....sadly these types really do exist and they have incredible skills and unbelievable neck / confidence and seemingly zero fear of capture.

    fingers crossed for a positive outcome..

  7. #7
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    Spanish law isn't great hence why he seems to pop up here and there scamming people every few months.

    Speaking to my lawyer as a friend he said realistically we can take it to criminal court who will start the process against him, however now he has vanished and no one knows where he is the process could take a few years to even find him (if they can) and bring him to court, the costs would be over 5k but on the upside as he has previous convictions he will end up behind bars and for fraud it could approx 5 years.

    I am 99% sure they will never find him, he isn't dumb and probably has a new identity after his last run of scams. He is already known by different names in the area.

    The confidence and zero sh*ts given by him though is astonishing, nothing but a rat and I am sure he will get whats coming to him as I have heard through the grapevine some people aren't going the legal route, unfortunately my fiance (who is pregnant) is worrying as this guy has been in our home and she doesn't want any backlash but he 100% deserves what he gets and I agree with anyone going down this route, its the only way to affect people like him.

  8. #8
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    Sorry to hear that. I hope this guy gets what is coming to him. Also dont blame yourself, these guys are unreal, we had a Walter Mitty at work a number of years ago who fooled everyone for over a year. We all had it figured out after the event, once he was long gone.

    Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Its maybe worth putting your info onto the Dutch Rolex forum if you think they might end up there.
    Sorry to hear about this-sickening.
    I thought once a bank transfer was done then it couldn't be reversed without your permission.

    - - - Updated - - -

  10. #10
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    He was a class act and this was on going for the majority of 2020 so not a quick overnight job.

    As his account was in holland and transferring to my EU account I presume there must be a window to cancel, stupidly I should have waited but he was my neighbour who I seen almost everyday after all!!

    Thanks for the heads up on the dutch Rolex forum, I have just found the below if that was the one you were referring to?
    https://www.rolexforum.nl/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    He was a class act and this was on going for the majority of 2020 so not a quick overnight job.

    As his account was in holland and transferring to my EU account I presume there must be a window to cancel, stupidly I should have waited but he was my neighbour who I seen almost everyday after all!!

    Thanks for the heads up on the dutch Rolex forum, I have just found the below if that was the one you were referring to?
    https://www.rolexforum.nl/
    Yeh that's the one.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post

    I thought once a bank transfer was done then it couldn't be reversed without your permission.

    - - - Updated - - -
    This is simply wrong. Even many of the banks' own staff don't realise it, but the crooks certainly do. Most types of bank payment CAN and WILL be reversed under the right circumstances. People's faith in the system is quite misplaced, as I have warned here previously.

    H

  13. #13
    Sometimes what looks like a bank transfer is really a standing order which can be cancelled/reversed. I've been told by my bank when confirming receipt of funds BACS payments can be reversed but CHAPS and Faster Payments can't unless the account holder claims fraud. Depends on the method of transfer.

    I always call the bank and ask if the money is in and cleared, and if there are any circumstances where the money could be claimed back.

    Really sorry to hear about the situation OP. Must be a nightmare.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoodles View Post
    Very sorry to hear of this, I would PM Haywood and ask if he can help to put them on the stolen register?
    I regret that I now leave my tz-uk inbox full, as it was increasingly being filled each day with supererogatory demands for help with the most mundane or silly things, such as "what are your current views on the GMT as an investment vs the Submariner," "I'd like a full explanation of LV bezels please, immediately, because I cannot be 4rsed to post in open forum and expect you to give me your time at once," or "from these 57 pictures, will you just check over this £100,000 vintage piece for me, that I'm buying from another dealer?"

    If you make contact through the miltonaires website and mention me by name, they can filter out what needs to reach me.

    A very irritating loss, but there is more chance of your watches surfacing than you seem to fear, albeit that it may indeed be in years to come. Getting the numbers out there and on the main registers is vital. Will be happy to help.

    H
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 7th September 2020 at 12:06.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Sometimes what looks like a bank transfer is really a standing order which can be cancelled/reversed. I've been told by my bank when confirming receipt of funds BACS payments can be reversed but CHAPS and Faster Payments can't unless the account holder claims fraud. Depends on the method of transfer.

    I always call the bank and ask if the money is in and cleared, and if there are any circumstances where the money could be claimed back.

    Really sorry to hear about the situation OP. Must be a nightmare.
    ......and there you go. BACS, CHAPS and Faster Payments or Bill Payments can all be reversed and you're left with no more than a burning bum.

    Banks are cr4p.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Haywood_Milton;5525319]This is simply wrong. Even many of the banks' own staff don't realise it, but the crooks certainly do. Most types of bank payment CAN and WILL be reversed under the right circumstances. People's faith in the system is quite misplaced, as I have warned here previousl

    So is there no foolproof method?
    Or is there a time period where it cant be reversed?
    Last edited by Hood; 7th September 2020 at 12:26.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    He was a class act and this was on going for the majority of 2020 so not a quick overnight job.

    As his account was in holland and transferring to my EU account I presume there must be a window to cancel, stupidly I should have waited but he was my neighbour who I seen almost everyday after all!!

    Thanks for the heads up on the dutch Rolex forum, I have just found the below if that was the one you were referring to?
    https://www.rolexforum.nl/
    Just to say that forum has a lost and stolen section also.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Hood;5525337]
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    This is simply wrong. Even many of the banks' own staff don't realise it, but the crooks certainly do. Most types of bank payment CAN and WILL be reversed under the right circumstances. People's faith in the system is quite misplaced, as I have warned here previousl

    So is there no foolproof method?
    Or is there a time period where it cant be reversed?
    It seems that way nowadays! Sad world we live in. I actually donít know how to sell high value items anymore. I have sold bikes and cars in the past via banks transfer and never really thought about reversals.

    Does anyone have the safe answer? Cash payment within the bank I suppose?


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    I regret that I now leave my tz-uk inbox full, as it was increasingly being filled each day with supererogatory demands for help with the most mundane or silly things, such as "what are your current views on the GMT as an investment vs the Submariner," "I'd like a full explanation of LV bezels please, immediately, because I cannot be 4rsed to post in open forum and expect you to give me your time at once," or "from these 57 pictures, will you just check over this £100,000 vintage piece for me, that I'm buying from another dealer?"

    If you make contact through the miltonaires website and mention me by name, they can filter out what needs to reach me.

    A very irritating loss, but there is more chance of your watches surfacing than you seem to fear, albeit that it may indeed be in years to come. Getting the numbers out there and on the main registers is vital. Will be happy to help.

    H

    Thanks everyone, appreciate the help and advice given.

    I might have your email from a couple of years ago Haywood (my dad purchased his 116520 from your Chester shop) but if not I will send an email via your site.

    Really hoping they appear one day, I guess its just a waiting game to see if they do pop up somewhere!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    Thanks everyone, appreciate the help and advice given.

    I might have your email from a couple of years ago Haywood (my dad purchased his 116520 from your Chester shop) but if not I will send an email via your site.

    Really hoping they appear one day, I guess its just a waiting game to see if they do pop up somewhere!
    Message received and I will try to respond when not in office. H

  21. #21
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    Ugh, I hate reading this. Really sorry it happened to you.

    I always value my watches when I want to move on at trade value and drive to Davidsw or another top grey knowing I can accept 85% of market value better than a 100% loss.

    Not even sure there is a safe way to sell privately anymore. In your case, I would have definitely felt comfortable selling it to a neighbor and would have been scammed just as you were. One day, he will be caught as it sounds like the ground is sinking beneath him based on his international reputation.

    I do hope you get your watches back, or at a minimum, this guy gets the justice he deserves.

    Do keep us posted.

  22. #22
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    It does make you think twice selling privately, there is that many scammers and 'watch traders' popping up in that sector it's crazy.

    I have a few people spreading the word now so fingers crossed no one buys them unknowingly and loses out in the future.

  23. #23
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    Absolutely disgusting.
    I am glad nothing serious happened and I really hope you'll get your watches back at some point...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    It does make you think twice selling privately, there is that many scammers and 'watch traders' popping up in that sector it's crazy.

    I have a few people spreading the word now so fingers crossed no one buys them unknowingly and loses out in the future.
    Unfortunately, someone buying your watches unknowingly is probably the only way that you will get them back.

    The only other option is the police catching up with this guy and him still having them which is far less likely it seems.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Unfortunately, someone buying your watches unknowingly is probably the only way that you will get them back.

    The only other option is the police catching up with this guy and him still having them which is far less likely it seems.
    Both these watches need to go back to a national Rolex service centre for things like a new glass, bezel pip etc. That is where many stolen watches come to light.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Both these watches need to go back to a national Rolex service centre for things like a new glass, bezel pip etc. That is where many stolen watches come to light.
    I presume if that day comes (fingers crossed) Rolex will simply take control of the watches and contact my self to verify address etc and then return them?
    Does it also cover international, so if the watch was sent to Rolex in Spain would it still flag up?


    It must also be terrible for people on the other end who have purchased stolen watches unknowingly, sending them for a service and them never coming back!

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    I presume if that day comes (fingers crossed) Rolex will simply take control of the watches and contact my self to verify address etc and then return them?
    Does it also cover international, so if the watch was sent to Rolex in Spain would it still flag up?


    It must also be terrible for people on the other end who have purchased stolen watches unknowingly, sending them for a service and them never coming back!
    If I remember correctly, believe the law is different in Holland and they can become the property of an unknowing buyer.

    And this character does have a Dutch connection...

  28. #28
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Both these watches need to go back to a national Rolex service centre for things like a new glass, bezel pip etc. That is where many stolen watches come to light.
    That was the point I was making H. An unknowing buyer would be more likely to send it back to Rolex for a service or other work (and therefore be discovered/recovered) than the guy who stole them.

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