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Thread: Hulk for 20000? [emoji848]

  1. #101
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    Funny you say that because the hulk is the only watch Iíve bought twice. Both times Iíve wanted it a lot and both times of ownership it just hasnít lived up to what I wanted, not that in hindsight I knew what that was supposed to be.

    Itís a hard one because the hulk is a very good quality watch in todayís market for the 7 to 8k watch market, just like the black sub. When it got to the 10 to 12k price in my mind Iíd rather put my money in something else. Now itís probably in the 12 to 15k (for sellers) even more. As for paying 18 to 20k and comparing what that buys, itís like wow!! Okay itís discontinued but thereís still a lot out there, plus the previous generation Kermit, plus obviously the newer model coming out, so itís not like itís ultra rare. I then think about the VC overseas I bought and if you compare them thereís no comparison in value for money.

    Quote Originally Posted by kultschar View Post
    Sold mine for 5kish ages ago. Lusted for the damn thing for ages but then when I finally got my mitts on it I never wore it much and had a love / hate relationship with it.

    Its prob the only Rolex I have considered repurchasing so was sad this week to see it discontinued.....however just now seeing real wrist shots of the new black face version has surprised me a little. It looks quite stunning and more wearable (I thought it looked dull on the Rolex mockups)

  2. #102
    I know this seems crazy at £15k - £20k for a 116610lv hulk but didnít exactly the same happen with the previous 16610lv Kermit. When that model was discontinued prices went crazy didnít they, hitting £12k against an RRP of what £4.5k ish back then? So well over 100% premium. They then got even hotter for a while and only recently softened.

    So I expect similar to happen here, itís already hot in price, itís getting hotter......and if the Kermit story is anything to go by itíll likely stay at these levels.

  3. #103
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    Hulk for 20000?

    We talk a lot about pricing and demand, ignoring the final part of the equation: supply.

    Does anyone know how many Hulks were sold in the UK in the last decade? If you look at Instagram youíd think theyíre everywhere (partly due to the proliferation of fakes).

    At the moment there are just 10 for sale on chrono24 in the UK, of which 6 are mint. The cheapest minter is £18k, two have an asking price or £20k. There are two from Watchfinder 18.5-20k. On eBay, of 22 listings, 7 are unworn examples that will fetch £18k+. Thatís 34 examples of which roughly 13 (40%) are unworn, likely bought solely for investment / profit motive. Thatís a huge proportion of supply locked up in safes only to be brought out to sell.

    Going to put a thought out there. I think £20k from Watchfinder, or another highly reputable source, is now not totally unreasonable for a watch in such low (and now finite) supply, and high demand from beyond the WIS community. You will do extremely well to get one for £12-15k (as we could in the last few months) even for a used example.

    If youíve got one, Christmas has come early.

    FYI: I have no skin in the game. Also not investment advice just my 2 pence.


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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    We talk a lot about pricing and demand, ignoring the final part of the equation: supply.

    Does anyone know how many Hulks were sold in the UK in the last decade? If you look at Instagram youíd think theyíre everywhere (partly due to the proliferation of fakes).

    At the moment there are just 10 for sale on chrono24 in the UK, of which 6 are mint. The cheapest minter is £18k, two have an asking price or £20k. There are two from Watchfinder 18.5-20k. On eBay, of 22 listings, 7 are unworn examples that will fetch £18k+. Thatís 34 examples of which roughly 13 (40%) are unworn, likely bought solely for investment / profit motive. Thatís a huge proportion of supply locked up in safes only to be brought out to sell.

    Going to put a thought out there. I think £20k from Watchfinder, or another highly reputable source, is now not totally unreasonable for a watch in such low (and now finite) supply, and high demand from beyond the WIS community. You will do extremely well to get one for £12-15k (as we could in the last few months) even for a used example.

    If youíve got one, Christmas has come early.

    FYI: I have no skin in the game. Also not investment advice just my 2 pence.


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    I think that makes a lot of sense. People tend to look at chrono24 (Iíve seen it done with Daytonaís before) and say there are xxx for sale so loads out there. Not many people are happy to buy a watch from Russia or Brazil or even the US, and thatís without even factoring in shipping and import duties.

    I havenít looked, but if 10 is the number, thatís not many at all!

  5. #105
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    There is one on eBay from 2016 currently at £14.300.00 with 1day 14hrs to go so they are selling for more than usual. Item number 184430128346.
    And before anyone asks no it's not mine lol.
    Unless I win the lottery I will probably never own a Rolex but good luck to anyone who can get more than they paid for any watch and I mean that in a good way not as a sarcastic remark.

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    Thatís a huge proportion of supply locked up in safes only to be brought out to sell.
    I think quite a lot of investors in this watch (not collectors/owners) will be waiting for £25k, its got traction to get there especially when the earnings start rolling back in post Covid.

  7. #107
    I just looked and itís 25 in uk, not a big number. They START at £15k all the way to £20k plus and PoA. I suspect a number of those arenít actually in stock. 18 on eBay with a fair bit of overlap.

    I donít think thatís a lot at all and if you wanted one thatís not a whole load of choice given most people would like to actually see what theyíre buying in the flesh before parting with £15-£18k

  8. #108
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    A lot of stock will be held back, greys want to create growing prices. Take WF, on monday they had 5 of them. On Tuesday it dropped to one and then none. Wednesday/Thursday two more appeared, same years as before but now 4k more. I bet they have 3 more out back.....

    then there is demand, where is the demand for 20k hulks? WF havent sold theirs, and if people were not fighting to buy one of the 5 before monday why would they now at even more money? The discontinuation factor in my opinion was already being factored in and now dealers are trying to push harder. There is no way these will be more than kermits and those have fallen back after an initial surge as stated earier in this thread, these will likely be the same. All my opinion

    Once the new models starting coming in people will move to the trying to get those, the latest and greatest. Right now i see a lot of hype.

  9. #109
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    It seems to me that many Rolex watch models are now being regarded, and traded, as a commodity rather than a timepiece. I see parallels with the NI housing boom of some 15 years ago. People were buying houses with a 110% mortgage, leaving them empty for a year, then selling for 130% of their original buying price. Houses were a commodity being traded. The poopstorm when it all collapsed was intense. As an example, I in 2008 bought a repo for around 45% of what it had sold for 2 years previously.
    I am not trying to predict the future, but to anyone buying a hulk at £20k for investment, I salute your optimism.

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I think quite a lot of investors in this watch (not collectors/owners) will be waiting for £25k, its got traction to get there especially when the earnings start rolling back in post Covid.
    I don't think the watch market has a price elasticity directly related to the wider economy. On the contrary, I think prices will go up if / when the economy tanks later this year as people look for places to store cash. Whilst I think £25k will prove a little too hot, I think it's reasonable to expect prices to hover around the £20k for the foreseeable (for new models in the UK).

    Imagine the scenario. Man trades Hulk for ceramic Daytona? It should never happen.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    A lot of stock will be held back, greys want to create growing prices. Take WF, on monday they had 5 of them. On Tuesday it dropped to one and then none. Wednesday/Thursday two more appeared, same years as before but now 4k more. I bet they have 3 more out back.....

    then there is demand, where is the demand for 20k hulks? WF havent sold theirs, and if people were not fighting to buy one of the 5 before monday why would they now at even more money? The discontinuation factor in my opinion was already being factored in and now dealers are trying to push harder. There is no way these will be more than kermits and those have fallen back after an initial surge as stated earier in this thread, these will likely be the same. All my opinion

    Once the new models starting coming in people will move to the trying to get those, the latest and greatest. Right now i see a lot of hype.
    I think what will happen is that new models will also fetch £18-20k resale, at least initially

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    I don't think the watch market has a price elasticity directly related to the wider economy. On the contrary, I think prices will go up if / when the economy tanks later this year as people look for places to store cash. Whilst I think £25k will prove a little too hot, I think it's reasonable to expect prices to hover around the £20k for the foreseeable (for new models in the UK).

    Imagine the scenario. Man trades Hulk for ceramic Daytona? It should never happen.
    True, but in reality a ceramic Daytona isn't worth its inflated price and they haven't been discontinued, I remember when they hit £20k and everyone was up in arms, now it has a god like status and has been changing hands for £25k..

    Don't think anyone can second guess the strange world of Rolex..

  13. #113
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    I'm lucky enough to own one that I bought in 2016 from Prestons in Guildford, I was fortunate to be walking past just as they put it in the window.
    It was bought very much to wear and enjoy, which I have done, but I have to admit to be being rather nervous now to walk around with a £20k watch on my wrist!

  14. #114
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    If you stick Ďhulkí into a search you can see the price evolution on SC. Only 5 years ago these seemed to be going for ~£4-5k

    Rolex is a strange world for sure!!!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    A lot of stock will be held back, greys want to create growing prices..
    Thats not really happening from what im seeing. Lots of them being offered and going straight out in the trade. I'm not seeing much hoarding going on but cant comment about what's going on elsewhere.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    I think what will happen is that new models will also fetch £18-20k resale, at least initially
    Yep they probably will and if a few of them appear at those prices will people not prefer them than the hulk at similar pricing so the hulk then settles back more at 15/16k?

  17. #117
    This isnít a massive surprise to me. I recall us frequently talking here a few years ago regarding the restricted supply, The rising prices, More boutiques, the emergence of Tudor in the £4-£5k space. The speculation then was that Rolex were probably heading in an upward direction in respect of exclusivity and price more along the likes of Patek and AP etc.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Thats not really happening from what im seeing. Lots of them being offered and going straight out in the trade. I'm not seeing much hoarding going on but cant comment about what's going on elsewhere.
    WF are definately doing this. the two listed diappeared from sight only to return.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    WF are definately doing this. the two listed diappeared from sight only to return.
    Watchfinder is as watchfinder does. They're not particularly representative of what anyone else is up to

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Watchfinder is as watchfinder does. They're not particularly representative of what anyone else is up to
    Fair enough. They are one of the more Ďinteresting playersí. They havenít managed to sell either at the higher prices, where do you see real sale prices at right now?

  21. #121
    In the last few days, the completed listings on eBay show 5 have sold for around £15-£15.5k sale price. That’s eBay so may be a spread of private, dealers, and wannabe dealers

    Go back 6 weeks it was £12.5k ish

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    If you stick Ďhulkí into a search you can see the price evolution on SC. Only 5 years ago these seemed to be going for ~£4-5k

    Rolex is a strange world for sure!!!
    Remember trying one on in Robinsons/Mcr about 5 yrs ago. List price, 20% down and 2 yrs interest free. Couldnt feel the love but that face was lovely how it shifted colour

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Fair enough. They are one of the more Ďinteresting playersí. They havenít managed to sell either at the higher prices, where do you see real sale prices at right now?
    Around 17.5k for 2019's give or take.
    Theres been a gear up but not to 20 if you want to sell rather than decorate ch24 with them.
    There havent been many 2020s about lately, wonder if they stopped producing earlier and theres just been a trickle left.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by tz-uk73 View Post
    I know this seems crazy at £15k - £20k for a 116610lv hulk but didnít exactly the same happen with the previous 16610lv Kermit. When that model was discontinued prices went crazy didnít they, hitting £12k against an RRP of what £4.5k ish back then? So well over 100% premium. They then got even hotter for a while and only recently softened.

    So I expect similar to happen here, itís already hot in price, itís getting hotter......and if the Kermit story is anything to go by itíll likely stay at these levels.
    Thinking back when the 16610lv was brought out there didnt seem to be a demand for it. It was at a premium over a standard 16610 (which is what I bought) and they seemed available for ever. Am I imagining that or was there a turnaround in its fortunes

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrushton View Post
    Thinking back when the 16610lv was brought out there didnt seem to be a demand for it. It was at a premium over a standard 16610 (which is what I bought) and they seemed available for ever. Am I imagining that or was there a turnaround in its fortunes
    The LV originally sat unloved in windows as people were iffy about the green! Oops

  26. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Around 17.5k for 2019's give or take.
    Assuming this is retail price from a dealer?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonian View Post
    Yep they probably will and if a few of them appear at those prices will people not prefer them than the hulk at similar pricing so the hulk then settles back more at 15/16k?
    Interesting point, however if you look at BLNRs - seems that the prices of the Oyster and Jubilee models has become closer together over time. Looking at WF you can get yourself a 2018 Oyster for £14k or a 2019 Jubilee for £14k. Not an exact comparison to the Hulk vs. New Kermit situation, but I feel the Hulks will hold firm in the £16-18k range, whereas the Kermits will initially be a high price and then soften as the hype starts to fade. Ultimately, you may be able to get either for the same price, just like the BLNR, perhaps one day the new Kermit may even be cheaper! This is all dependent on Rolex supply and if they restrict the new Kermit heavily that will clearly change things.

  28. #128

    HULK

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonian View Post
    Similar. Sold mine to my brother a few months back as I just wasnít wearing it. Iím just of the opinion now that if Iím not wearing a watch thereís no point in having it and whilst itís nice to know a watch is worth more than you paid itís never been about investments to me.
    NOT KEEN ON THE GREEN BEZEL SO WOULD NOT BE 20K FOR ME

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by scubasky100 View Post
    NOT KEEN ON THE GREEN BEZEL SO WOULD NOT BE 20K FOR ME
    OK. THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubasky100 View Post
    NOT KEEN ON THE GREEN BEZEL SO WOULD NOT BE 20K FOR ME
    Pardon?

  31. #131
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    IMO Hulks will be back about £12K in 6 months time-about the same as 5 digit Kermits.
    I expect this to be quoted if they are at £25K .

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by tz-uk73 View Post
    In the last few days, the completed listings on eBay show 5 have sold for around £15-£15.5k sale price. That‚Äôs eBay so may be a spread of private, dealers, and wannabe dealers

    Go back 6 weeks it was £12.5k ish
    All used - not a fair sample


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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrushton View Post
    Remember trying one on in Robinsons/Mcr about 5 yrs ago. List price, 20% down and 2 yrs interest free. Couldnt feel the love but that face was lovely how it shifted colour
    Ah the good old days!


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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    IMO Hulks will be back about £12K in 6 months time-about the same as 5 digit Kermits.
    I expect this to be quoted if they are at £25K .
    If theyíre selling for 15k used now, what makes you think people will suddenly sell for 12k in 6 months? People tend to be overly optimistic about life, likelihood is they hold on rather than sell. The 12k Hulk ship has sailed lads, nothing to see here unless youíve got 15-20k.


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  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    All used - not a fair sample


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    What do you mean fair sample? I was responding to a question on what are they selling for. I know the prices fluctuate between those unworn and those 10 years old and if you read above Iíve said many times these are 15-20. A lot will depend on condition and provenance. Itís the fairest sample we have of actual sold prices in the last few days isnít it?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by tz-uk73 View Post
    What do you mean fair sample? I was responding to a question on what are they selling for. I know the prices fluctuate between those unworn and those 10 years old and if you read above Iíve said many times these are 15-20. A lot will depend on condition and provenance. Itís the fairest sample we have of actual sold prices in the last few days isnít it?
    I guess my point is that there is too much variability and randomness dealing with used watches. So we should be looking at sold values for new unworn pieces. I mean you no harm :-)


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  37. #137
    Without wishing to stir this up any more, but I will. Are there any dial, bezel, font variations thatíll whip up certain hulks in to the stratosphere?

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    I guess my point is that there is too much variability and randomness dealing with used watches. So we should be looking at sold values for new unworn pieces. I mean you no harm :-)


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    True. And I always see eBay as the low end of the value spectrum, the place to buy if you want a cheap whatever. If you want product certainty, seller support, lost and stolen / provenance back up, youíll almost certainly pay way above those eBay values.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    If theyíre selling for 15k used now, what makes you think people will suddenly sell for 12k in 6 months? People tend to be overly optimistic about life, likelihood is they hold on rather than sell. The 12k Hulk ship has sailed lads, nothing to see here unless youíve got 15-20k.


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    Because there is an initial uplift due to them being discontinued.
    IMO this will not be a sustainable uplift .
    The Pepsi GMT was on SC at 12K last week so I'm not sure people are going to go over that for a hulk once the madness has gone.
    There is also the small matter of lots of job losses and deep recession with tax hikes looming so I would strap in.
    Oh yeh and Brexit has still to happen.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Fair enough. They are one of the more Ďinteresting playersí. They havenít managed to sell either at the higher prices, where do you see real sale prices at right now?
    I was chatting to a local dealer (not AD) who sold a Hulk two weeks ago for £12,500. He said they have gone up a bit but he doesnít know of anyone in his area actually selling them for the asking prices we are seeing online. I would say there are buyers out there at the moment at 15-16k who are trying to flip them for a quick £ but anyone serious about buying one to keep long term canít see it as value to buy now surely?


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  41. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucko View Post
    I was chatting to a local dealer (not AD) who sold a Hulk two weeks ago for £12,500. He said they have gone up a bit but he doesnít know of anyone in his area actually selling them for the asking prices we are seeing online. I would say there are buyers out there at the moment at 15-16k who are trying to flip them for a quick £ but anyone serious about buying one to keep long term canít see it as value to buy now surely?


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    5 have definitely sold for £15k or more in the last few days. The dealer you spoke to is probably just a bit miffed he didnít hang on for another 14 days to make another few thousand.

    It has gone ballastic. Youíre right on the asking prices. I see the top 4 on eBay are now all between £19k and £25k. Why would anyone pay £25k when you can have the other one for £24,700 lol!

  42. #142
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    20-25k is enough to put off the endless stream of tyre kickers and wannabe insta-dealers, and they've been swarming ever since Monday.
    People who are properly interested will counter, and thats when you can find some middle ground.

    Its a bit like those moths that look like they have huge scary eyes to ward off danger

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    If theyíre selling for 15k used now, what makes you think people will suddenly sell for 12k in 6 months? People tend to be overly optimistic about life, likelihood is they hold on rather than sell. The 12k Hulk ship has sailed lads, nothing to see here unless youíve got 15-20k.


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    Could have said the same thing when the BLNR was 12k last year. Isn't 12k now. The Hulk will enjoy a lift now because no Hulks are available -- the new ones haven't trickled out yet and the old one isn't produced anymore.

    Once the new ones are on a few wrists and on all the grey websites it will calm down as demand will be split into two different watches. With most things hype/Rolex related the newest model nearly always demands the bigger premium. The new 'Cermit' isn't a £20k watch so the Hulk can't be one either.

  44. #144

    Hulk for 20000?

    I think youíd have to be detached to pay £15-20k for a Ceramic LV. For one, I donít think the lugs will age well, definitely not now that theyíve changed them... Itís a very well-made watch that I can see the appeal of, but not at the level of a Daytona/entry Patek/entry ALS etc. Less wearable and more flash, but a solid gold Sub is also far more special IMO, and about that sort of money 2nd hand.

  45. #145
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  46. #146
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    That encapsulates pretty much everything I hate about Rolex.

  47. #147
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    My June 2020 Hulk

    Think Iíll put my June 2020 Hulk on SC for £24,700 and get the popcorn out (lol)!

    Clearly I wouldnít dream of doing that but I pity the first chap that tries it on 🤦🏻*♂️

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Because there is an initial uplift due to them being discontinued.
    IMO this will not be a sustainable uplift .
    The Pepsi GMT was on SC at 12K last week so I'm not sure people are going to go over that for a hulk once the madness has gone.
    There is also the small matter of lots of job losses and deep recession with tax hikes looming so I would strap in.
    Oh yeh and Brexit has still to happen.
    Just want to reiterate that watches, like many other goods like fine wine, rare whisky, gold bars, classic cars actually do fine out of recessions and downturns. Often, their prices even rise.

    Theyíre being bought by people who either wonít lose their jobs or can afford to lose their jobs. Not really being bought by someone who works in a no name small tourism business who loses their job post furlough scheme ending. Thatís not meant as offence, just in real life thatís an industry that faces short term annihilation.

    Brexit wonít hurt watch deals at all. In fact, thereíll probably be a few more buyers from the continent pulling the old tax free ďnothing to declareĒ smuggle on return to their home nation.


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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Could have said the same thing when the BLNR was 12k last year. Isn't 12k now. The Hulk will enjoy a lift now because no Hulks are available -- the new ones haven't trickled out yet and the old one isn't produced anymore.

    Once the new ones are on a few wrists and on all the grey websites it will calm down as demand will be split into two different watches. With most things hype/Rolex related the newest model nearly always demands the bigger premium. The new 'Cermit' isn't a £20k watch so the Hulk can't be one either.
    Youíll eventually get 12k for your BLNR yet, I believe in you ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #150
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel76 View Post
    Think Iíll put my June 2020 Hulk on SC for £24,700 and get the popcorn out (lol)!

    Clearly I wouldnít dream of doing that but I pity the first chap that tries it on 臘*♂️
    I'm sure a few owners are thinking of cashing in whilst they are hot - and why not.

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