Can anyone answer - when going through an "average speed check zone" is your average speed measured between each gantry or over the whole distance, first camera you pass to the last...
If the former, can you get more than one ticket?
If the latter, can you 'get away' with speeding in the second half if you've been held up in the first bit, as long as your overall average speed is less than the limit.
Curious
I previously always thought it was random which two cameras were active and calculating the average speed and having multiple cameras along a stretch meant that drivers couldn't work out where their speed was being averaged. Googling it suggests the multiple cameras are networked together so can work out your average between any two cameras.Originally Posted by langtoft lad
Last edited by Christian; 29th August 2020 at 11:01.
I've always stuck to 30/40 limits, there's bugger all to gain by going faster in those areas. 50 plus, generally stick to the 10%rule, GPS speed.
Using Waze and cameralert, I've never encountered an unexpected camera/van.
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Yep. Below the camera trigger threshold. That’s why they are doing away with 50 through roadworks as car drives tend to drive at 46/47 and cause to many problems with traffic flow. They’ve put it up so they will drive at or faster than the wagons so nobody gets held up.
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And yet pretty much no one drives at 70 on the motorway as the limit was set in the 60s when cars were made of cheese and had no brakes, and it’s sixty years later and they are driving modern cars which are designed for the autobahn or the 130km/h roads in France, which seem to work just fine. And the police have no interest in enforcing the 70 limit, unless they are in revenue raising mood, as like everyone else they know the limit is a ridiculous anachronism. I can only assume this makes your blood boil...
79 on that run. Cameras are set 80+. Allowance is 10% + 2mph.
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Most are but not all, and human responses have not got quicker since the 60's and drivers now have more distractions.
As someone who occasionally finds myself driving a vehicle with a top speed between 50 and 60, having cars come up behind me with a closing speed of 10-20mph is ok, but when they are doing 80-90+ the closing speed can be quite terrifying.
Whizzing along is fine as long as everyone is doing it, has modern well maintained vehicles, is paying attention and has the cat-like reactions, but while motorways can be used by a very wide range of vehicles, and by drivers with a similarly wide range of capacity, limiting speed does seem to make sense.
10%+2 in Yorkshire (according to the gentlemen running my speed awareness course)
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Or what? You’ll make another ironic, in-joke post on a public forum?
FYI, I was calling you 13 and the Carlton driver idiot! Maybe the lack of emojis, etc., confused you?
Or nothing.
Go be annoyed with somebody else and lighten up.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 29th August 2020 at 22:23.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Last word burners, no returns
Considering that the money goes straight to the government and not a penny to the police, I doubt this is a strong motivator.
The law is the law though...you can't just pick and choose which ones you as an individual think are ok to break and criticise people for breaking others you think are crimes.
Only pointing out the hypocracy on TZ where speeding seems to be completely acceptable whereas bringing your holiday purchased watch back through customs without declaring is one of the worst crimes you can commit.
Personally, I do neither...I don't ever speed because I dont like the stress of potentially being caught by a camera and I don't buy many watches from airports. But I don't like the double standards either.
Last edited by Christian; 29th August 2020 at 23:11.
All this 5%/10% +2/3/4 blah blah blah is not set in stone, different forces run different tolerances and often change those tolerances based on numerous facts like accidents within the area, local village do-gooders with their high viz jackets sending info back to the police, the list goes on.
The only guarantee you can go on is the actual speed limit, if you want to break it then go for it but don't think having some random percentage and calculation will keep the points off your licence, actually most 20 zones are just that 20 with no buffer..
I really think you need to watch the news a bit more if you think tax dodgers are the worst criminals in the UK..
I’ve not had a ticket for years and years doing 15k per year.
Last month I picked up two in one day, 35 in a 30 at 7am and 79 on the A11 (70) at 14:10. Talking hands free on both occasions.
Pitch
The nice thing about average cameras is they are usually front facing... so if you see a bike behind you, please move over, we don’t need to slow down
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This I think.
In the days of steam we worked on 10% + 2 but there are no guarantees this doesn’t change with regions, within a region, with detection method and with time.
If you go through multiple sectors of averaging cams, then one of the sectors will be the highest. The others and overall averages of multiple sectors will be lower, so I’d predict one ticket for the highest single cam-to-cam sector.
I disagree with “normal” motorway speeds today. You rarely see anyone venture over about 72 real mph nowadays. I check my speed with the dash cam GPS display (the screen saver gives GPS speed) and independently with satnav speed. They are always within 1mph of each other.
My cruise gives a real mph of 2 lower than setting across the range. 22 set gives 20mph actual right up to 72 set gives 70mph. I have a feeling my car knows exactly what it’s doing, but adds 2 anyway.
Actually you can, it’s the job the government does every day, and in a democracy discussing which laws are stupid and should be changed or even ignored is entirely healthy - think for instance of the prohibition era in America, or their racial segregation. In the case of speeding, there’s a very broad consensus that the 70mph limit on motorways is unnecessarily slow given modern cars. The police themselves only object to raising it to 80mph on the grounds that people would then drive at 90mph, but they have little interest in people who exceed it by 10% or so. In France, the system is different, the limit is around 80mph on fast roads (130kph) and people are strictly penalised for exceeding it. This faster limit doesn’t appear to cause chaos.
I’m not advocating for dangerous driving by idiots, but I don’t believe the current system is perfect either. I don’t think that ‘20s plenty’ in entire London boroughs, it makes sense in some places but saps the will to live in others, as do the ever expanding average speed checks that make driving a constant process of checking you’re not about to be fined. We’re creating an environment where pedestrians expect not to have to look up from their phones, instead of encouraging some awareness and responsibility.
We’re clearly reaching the end of the road for sports cars and bikes, city centres will become peaceful electric scooter zones and we’ll watch films on motorways in our self driving cars. There’s a lot to like about this future but we’re not quite there yet, we’re in a transitional period where that future hasn’t yet appeared, but the fun of driving the last generation of great vehicles, well and with consideration for others, is rapidly being eroded.
The nice thing about average cameras is they are usually front facing... so if you see a bike behind you, please move over, we don’t need to slow down
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A biker mate just acquired a speed-awareness course by making the same assumption.
I got caught 9 miles an hour over, did a speed awareness course here in Essex. They told us that some cameras are set for zero tolerance on the A12, some speeders on the course were only one or two miles an over!
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It’s really not an assumption. They mostly are, you do have to keep an eye out for the odd rear one.
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I don't know about average cameras but in France the regular kind ain't!
Here when you receive a fine, the tolerances are spelt out on the notification -
Speed used for the fine = measured speed - technical margin.
For a fixed speed camera - 5 kmph up to 100 kmph, 5% above 100 kmph. So on a motorway you can do up to 84.5 mph (according to your GPS) without risk.
For an onboard camera - 10 kmph up to 100 kmph, 10% above 100 kmph.
What is bizarre, however, is my last fine showed me measured as doing 61 kmph in a 50 zone (one of those sneaky, sudden reductions from 70 to 50 on a dual carriageway, with no apparent reason for the change), but the 'vitesse retenue' was 51 kmph. So either the officer 'who registered and validated' the infraction was being kind or is crap at maths; I assume the former as he probably looked at the photo and saw I was on an empty dual-carraigeway in broad daylight and dry conditions. Anyway, 90 Euros and 1 point - which I get back after 6 months if I don't reoffend.
Last edited by SimonK; 30th August 2020 at 11:21.
Don't know which motorways you drive on but try the M62 and you'll see plenty. And I mean that!
The traffic police tweeted just the other day about someone they'd caught between Manchester and Huddersfield doing 117mph. The driver had no insurance and already had 14 points on their licence (however the heck that works!).
I regularly drive hire vans and cars (various makes and models) for work purposes and I use the WAZE app on my phone which shows current speed, all the vehicle speedometers so far have under read by 3-4 mph at 70mph.
The most likely place to get caught for speeding in my opinion is on a road unknown to myself which keeps slowing/increasing in speed, motorways are not so difficult but it’s when your outside your area and reliant on the sat-nav that your most likely to creep over the limit.
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What a lot of us don't take into account is combined speed, country road or single lane carriageway at 60mph seems quite tame but someone doing the same 60mph in the opposite direction while texting their missus what they want for dinner equals a 120mph head on.
Just go to the 1 minute mark to see the smash!
This makes good viewing, bit shocking in places!
Last edited by murkeywaters; 30th August 2020 at 18:44.
It's a common misconception, but if you think about it, it's incorrect - you'd be magicing up double the energy if that were the case as each car would be experiencing the crash at 120, and that's of course not the case. It's not any different to you driving head first into a wall at 60.
A 60 mph crash is scary enough though!
The kinetic energy of a vehicle striking a stationer object is K
The kinetic energy of 2 identical vehicles colliding at the same velocity is 2K.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Hmmm, I'm not so sure, if your doing 60mph and hit a wall thats the kinetic energy of 60mph, if you hit another vehicle head on at the same speed then you have 2x 60mph of kinetic energy pushing against each other which would surely create a bigger impact, all that energy has to go somewhere but I suppose you have 2 crumple zones rather one?
You could ask yourself, would you rather hit a wall at 60 or another car doing 60
Edit; Chris has just said basically the same thing!
And what is that 2K shared between?
Those two vehicles.
If it's a solid wall that won't be destroyed in any way, I'd choose the two vehicles! More chances of some deflection or other means of dissipating the energy.Hmmm, I'm not so sure, if your doing 60mph and hit a wall thats the kinetic energy of 60mph, if you hit another vehicle head on at the same speed then you have 2x 60mph of kinetic energy pushing against each other which would surely create a bigger impact, all that energy has to go somewhere but I suppose you have 2 crumple zones rather one?
You could ask yourself, would you rather hit a wall at 60 or another car doing 60
If it's a crappy brick wall that'll give out and I'll plough on through, I'll choose the wall though.
Agree immovable brick wall at 60 is same as two cars at 60 - unless one car is much heavier than yours...
My vote would be with the vehicles with crumple zones and SRS!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Just resurrecting this thread with a PSA.
A chum of mine - middle-aged, born-again biker, has just done a one-day training/assessment with the Warwickshire Police. The subject of speeding tolerances and margins came up and he was told, by the bike police present, that for 30 and 40 speed limits there is zero tolerance - if you are over the speed limit, even by a mile per hour or two you will be stopped and ticketed. They are more tolerant in 60 and 70 limits - up to 10 mph over and you should be OK as long as you are not driving recklessly. On motorways, if they are in unmarked cars, you are safe up to 80 or even 85 if it is dry and you are not driving like a shirt-front. However, if you overtake a police car or bike which is travelling at the limit, they will at the very least pull you over for a talking to.
So there you are, from the pig's (sorry Rod) horse's mouth.
In 2005ish I got a ticket for doing 32 in a 30mph zone. Especially unfair that it was going down a pretty steep, long hill. Ever since I go the whole way down (maybe 2 miles) at 29mph with my foot on the brake the whole way, and regularly get people driving a few inches off my rear bumper / gesticulating / flashing / overtaking me. Have never seen a policeman with a speedo gun there since.
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