Reply With QuoteWould H&V be a better place for this?
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I know this goes against most other reviews or experiences but after countless emails i'm getting nowhere with Seth.
Aside from his normal disregard to let customers know whats going on
I sent him 2 bracelets in total. A jubilee and a bark president bracelet from.the DD bought off champagne James last month
The jubilee was sent with 2 removable links to get an overhaul and stretch taken out and install the links.
It came back today 26/08/20 looking pretty good though on close inspection i noticed one of the link screws was near 50% worn out... dont know why it wouldn't be replaced.
(Costs about £2 for a new one) and one of the 2 removable links was now attatched to a fixed link! Meaning if I want to remove this link, I would have to do it as a double link.
Seths answer to this was its not a problem if the watch fits and can be adjusted on the clasp.... NOT THE POINT.
Secondly with the bark president bracelet we agreed over the phone it didn't need a full overhaul as it was in good oberall condition.
He would repair the clasp middle pin, end link pins, re-bark effect to a worn link, (which wasn't done) refinish and a price was given.
Upon seth sending me photos before the president was posted I notice there's bad damage to 2 link edges what wasn't there before and made him aware to compare my photos I took prior to posting.
He didn't accept any responsability and mentioned its imperfection due to age, wear and tear and pre exhisting damage which isnt the case if the damage was not there prior to sending it.
When I asked to reftify the damage /negligence he accused of trying to 'manipulate this work at any juncture'
Now Ive paid Seth for poor service on the jubilee and the a poor service (not fulfilling what was agreed) along with a damaged president bracelet
Payment is always via bank transfer so the bank cannot get involved.
Just an unplesant experience leaving me having to take the bracelets/ the president at a minimum elsewhere to get rectified.
Any ideas how to go about this?
He's pretty much washed his hands with it now
https://i.imgur.com/8i7X8hZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GalVTHf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WTDNm1w.jpg
Hope the pictures work
Thanks
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Last edited by Liam1288; 26th August 2020 at 17:19.
Would H&V be a better place for this?
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Thanks but not yet no because i'm asking for advice on how to approach the issue now...Originally Posted by Arcam
Any suggestions?
to me looks like was there before the satin and you could not see it once satin it high lights it, but sometimes you cannot perfection when repairing stretched old bracelet
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I am sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.
I wish you well in getting a satisfactory conclusion.
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No worries mate.
Thanks
I disagree, if it was there before it would been noticable in my posession and James' .
Especially as sharp and fresh as those marks.
They're freshly done and looks like a clamp too tight or it slipped but im no expert. Either way seth is not accepting liability even compared to the photos prior to sending it in.
personally i think its negligence or lack of attention to detail. But just simply to deny the marks are there when they were not before is beyond me.
the thing is when you see a bracelet all shinning with age related marks and you satin the watch you done always notice what was there previously and some of the marks you are complaining about you can see in my opinion in the before picture. But I have sent plenty watches, bracelets etc... to Seth over the years with no problems, take a look at picture looks far better than it was and see dents etc...
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Last edited by bokbok; 26th August 2020 at 23:22.
Sorry to hear that this hasn’t gone well.
I’ve never had dealings with Seth but I’m aware of his good reputation, he provides a service that is very specialised and I can’t think of anyone in the UK who can restore bracelets like he can.
I suspect the root of these problems is communication. I’m sure Seth has the capability to do exactly what the OP wanted, but the end product has fallen short of his expectations. Possibly this was caused by misunderstandings, no- one sets out to do a bad job. My advice is to always give a repairer/ restorer carte blanche to use their judgement and do what they feel needs doing to get the job done properly.
If Seth doesn’t fix this, who can/will? On that basis I suggest the OP tries to repair the relationship, reach a compromise, return the bracelets to Seth and get them sorted out. Posting a thread like this doesn’t help, if Seth gets wind of it he could easily tell the OP where to go!
Sorry but it's difficult to see which links are which from your photos. Perhaps if you took the after photo from the same perspective as the before it would be easier to compare.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Michael Young
If Seth doesn’t fix this,[B
But costly
Agreed, but that involves posting overseas and paying again. The OP probably doesn’t want to hear this, but repairing the relationship with Seth and getting him to complete the job to the OPs satisfaction is probably the best way forward even if it involves paying more money and swallowing his pride.
100%
I'm all for repairing the relationship but seth wants nothing to do with it.
Apparently I'm the worst customer he's delt with just because i'm OCD yet I would imagine most watch repairers have to be OCD and have a high attention to detail.
Eitherway those marks were not there when I sent it in. Although slightly better off mechanically, cosmetically its worse than when I sent it.
Face value looks worse and the job we agreed on hasn't been fully completed (bark re-finish and these new dents) ... feel like ive paid 100% for only 50% of the job.
In that case I'd grit your teeth and send it off to Michael Young. If he can't do what you want or you're not happy with the work then it was you all along.
Thank you for those screenshots of my photos. I apreciate it.
For those saying its difficult to see the marks. I will try get some more tomorrow when i recieve the bracelet...
There are 2 little dimples on one of the links which were there pre sending off but the marks in this topic are ones on the oposite side of this link plus the link to the left.
Hope that helps.
The hard part on a bracelet is the links repair for function ... if it’s just polishing or marks a good working jeweller should be able to fill those marks and polish then to unnoticeable pretty easily if you can find one close to you rather than a bracelet specialist .
Sound advice.
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No it isn't!
Most jewellers don't know jack about refurbing a Rolex bracelet correctly!
This seems a simple task but taking it to a non-watch specialist is inviting more issues.
bet you be happy with the bracelet and live with it if you got a full refund it seems, it's a 40 year old bracelet in gold you don't get perfection on a bracelet repair 0CD or not albeit Michael Young's are not perfect in person. It looks far better than when you sent it.
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Last edited by bokbok; 27th August 2020 at 08:45.
He was saying that a decent jeweller would be able to take the marks off the gold(if that's the OP's main gripe) as the link repair has been done already by Seth.
Most jewellers don’t know jack about restoring a bracelet for function , Ie. pulling links apart , re pinning etc but they know a lot more than most bracelet restorers about filling and working marks and scratches in gold .
But what would I know , ive only had about a thousand of them done 🤷*♂️
I’ve never had Seth do a bracelet for me , more because of geography than anything else ... but I have had Michael do a lot and a guy in USA ... michael is great at what he does ... but if you think you are going send an old bracelet in for refurb and it will come back like a new one you are dreaming . You can chase it down the rabbit hole , but you’ll be starting to throw laser welding , new sections , specialist goldsmith work all into the equation , and the bill will be nothing like the standard refurb charge It will be many times as much .... and at the end it will still not be like a new one
The last refurb of an 18k pres cost me just short of £2k .... out of interest what was your cost on this one ?
out of interest how much was the bill for the bracelet refurb?
Is this a case of you get what you pay for maybe?
Ive never dealt with Seth so dont know his going rate/charges.
Thanks guys
Ok so lest clear up a few posts...
No I wouldnt be happy with a refund and to live with the braclet... it would only cost me more than the refund now to have another specialist sort it out. Eg MY or l.chapman etc
Yes another jeweller might be able to re solder/weld more metal in and polish it back to the correct finish but itll be hit and miss how that'll look.
So the price was £300 for the gold and £130 for the jubilee albeit not a huge amount (enough for me to be bothered about) though Seth inspected the bracelet and said it was in good condition and didnt advise a full repinning overhaul as his finished result would not have the same smooth articulation.
I agreed with his professional opinion as
1. If it didn't need doing, why do it
2. Saved me £500
He really prefers to work on bracelets that are ready for the bin to give new lease of life so whatever he does will be 1000 times better which may be the reason behind his good track record as customers were ready to pay thousands for a new one but now they can wear it again,(even with a few dents from seth)
I understand MY or indeed other repairers will not be perfect but a damn sight better to when it was sent, however to simply deny the fact the damage was done in his posession is not right.
Its lack of attentuon to detail and I'm surprised he sent it out in this condition after it was cosmetically damaged, Regardless if the bracelet is in overall a better condition.
If you break something, you fix it (to the best of your ability)
‘Apparently I’m the worse customer he has dealt with because I’m OCD. ‘ I don’t know the guy Seth but he has a good reputation so maybe you need to think about his reaction....he describes you as the worst customer and you describe yourself as obsessive-compulsive.
People here have no reliable means of being sure about all this; it’s just your claims, without real proof. You may have a valid case, but so might Seth. I think it’s quite wrong to use TZ to pursue a personal vendetta against a tradesman. Sort it out privately with him.
Go to the small claims court if you feel strongly enough. If you win, come back and tell us.
Last edited by paskinner; 27th August 2020 at 10:36.
Why not have a word with Bill Rice at Beverley? (Williamricewatches).
He’s no longer Rolex accredited but he was until quite recently. He has lots of experience and does excellent refinishing work. He’s not too far away so you could drive over and show him the job.
I wouldn’t know what to do with the bark effect on the centre links but the marks on the outer brushed links could be fixed quite easily.
To echo the previous comments, I think you have to be realistic about old bracelets, even after restoration they’re still old bracelets and if you look carefully that will be obvious. This applies particularly to gold.
I’m not a fan of old watch bracelets, I’ve seen too many that are knackered but the owners insist on asking to have them refinished. Obviously in this case a new replacement would be eye- wateringly expensive so refurbishment us the sensible answer, but provided the bracelet is strong and durable some compromise has to be made regarding the cosmetic aspects.
I really like the gold Rolex day/ date but I’ll never own one, I have a 9ct 60s Omega on a 9ct aftermarket bracelet and that scratches the itch for me, I bought the bracelet new approx 20 yrs ago for £200!
Ok well i use the term OCD lightly... i just like things to be 'right'...
As we all do in the watch community or we all would just have smart watches, not flawless timepieces...
would you not notice a spec of dust in the dial of a brand new watch youd paid thousands for? Or a scratch in the case?
Of course you would and you'd want something to be done.
If you paid £300 for a mechanic to service the brakes on your car and they damaged the alloy takiing it off, youd want them to make it right.
Its the same situation, fortunately i have proof of pictures so deniability isnt an option.
Having spoken to Seth about this post he has had a disturbing ride with this chap his words and has left a reply on Trustpilot if anyone wants to see it here’s the link :
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ww...chdealer.co.uk
This is all very unedifying, especially given the response on Trustpilot - clearly two sides to this and the bracelet needs to be inspected when in hand. It should be dealt with direct and privately. I would suggest removing the OP, if this is possible.
Last edited by Berty234; 27th August 2020 at 13:02.
Interesting. (and the other trustpilot review with matching rating). Sorry to say - another one for the ignore list as I would not want to sell and get into protracted 'discussions'.
I don’t normally comment on these types of posts but wow, this doesn’t look good at all! Not on Seth but the OP. Two trust pilot reviews both on 1 and 70 emails in the communications.
It’s only a shame that you didn’t put this in H&V so that everyone could see who to avoid dealing with in the future - you not Seth.
To me, it’s a warning about using TZ to pursue disagreements with tradesmen. We are rarely in a position to judge and real damage can be done to a business. There may be rare exceptions, but in general, this is not the right place to air a disagreement we can’t adequately assess.
Having said that, I think in this case we can make a judgement easily enough....
Agreed.
Based on that Trustpilot review I think this thread should be deleted, having dealt with Seth I consider his workmanship excellent, I would suggest to the OP to send his bracelet to Michael Young and then give us his thoughts regarding timescale/ workmanship/price.
Sorry OP you don’t come out looking great after seeing both sides of the story.
I think you might have shot yourself in the foot starting this post.
Wondering if the OP will reply to this thread now that we have heard both sides.
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maybe send Eddie a PM with your thoughts?
Funny how Liam's OCD seems to come and go. This is what he posted on the GMT sales post:
***********
"don't know what all the fuss is with long E, F, G rubbish who cares!?
Back then rolex did what they wanted and used whatever was closest to grab off the shelf right?
Same with the bracelet, better for a service replacement from the correct period than a naff leather strap.
I mean obviously it was worn so rolex decided it needed a new bracelet, better that than keep the original worn out one which could fail"
**********
Funny how his opinion changes when it's his own property. He should have taken his own advice and bunged a new bracelet on it.
A poor show this thread, makes the OP look a complete fool.
No this thread should not be deleted. It should be kept as an example of why it is best never to name a shop or business until after a resolution as been agreed or not. Also never to take sides until you get to hear a response from the other party.
Wow what a read, dealing with the general public can be horrendous and I feel for Seth in this one, actually after his response I would happily add Seth to my suppliers list and pass work his way, as for the OP, please dont contact me if you fancy buying something of mine on SC..
Funny how it's nearly always the person who starts a villain thread who ends up being the real villain. This thread should either be deleted or moved to H&V to serve as a reminder to everyone not to deal with the OP. I haven't used Seth before but after reading the responses here and reviews on TrustPilot I would have no hesitation in using his services. Seth sounds like a top guy with skill to match. 70 emails - wtf?!?!?!
A short comment about Michael Young vs Seth for those who are ignoring other aspects of this thread and who have an interest in getting a bracelet repaired. I sent each an Osyter bracelet a couple of years back, Seth the solid link and Michael the folded. Its a while now so memory isnt great but I recall Seth being around 50% of the price and taking probably a similar length of time. In terms of workmanship - I couldn't tell any difference, both were totally acceptable and recovered what were normal wear and tear cases (not a basket case) bringing both up to a good level of finish with all slackness gone. The biggest hassle with Michael was shipping to HK with the associated costs/insurance etc and with Seth patchy comms but nothing particularly unusual for watch repair specialists IMO - they all seem over busy. On balance the next one (if I have one) will be going to Seth.
Keith
No knowledge of this specific incident but Seth is a sound chap in my extensive experience.
I dream of a day when businesses will be able to share online reviews of their clients, but the GDPR ninnies for whom we are forced to pay would choke on their joyless, dolphin-safe lunch, hammering out a warning notice in what they fail to realise is just an unquenchable desire to better a life that disappoints them.
"The customer is always right. Except when he's a complete spanner."
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 27th August 2020 at 15:07.
I read this and thought "wants it all without paying for it".
Then saw Seths response on TrustPilot.
I've dealt with Seth a couple of times in the past and will continue to do so. OP sounds like the reason migraleve was invented.
Pretty well this. Not covering self in glory, OP - in my view at least...
+1, OP sounds like a bit of a pillock.
Surprised the OP hasn’t come back to defend himself. Or not surprised!
I’ve never used Seth but clearly he’s highly rated. Maybe anyone that has used him fairly recently and thinks so, maybe nows the time to let him know on trust pilot.
That's the OP popped on ignore. Over time I'll forget why but who cares.
"A man of little significance"
+1
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Having read Seths side of the story I regret wasting time trying to advise the OP.
This also reinforces the decision I made a few years ago to never get involved with anything Rolex related!
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