My first Gaming PC

[dougair]

I know there are a few hardcore gamers here. After 20 years of resistance to PC gaming (I’ve been a console man) the advent of great VR games has me tempted to enter PC gaming. I have a quest I use via link and am looking for a circa £1k PC. Any thoughts on this as an entry PC:

SPECIFICATIONS
Processor:
AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz (Up to 4.35GHz)
Memory:
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz (1x16GB)
Hard Drive:
240GB Corsair MP510 M.2 NVMe & 1TB Seagate BarraCuda
GPU:
Gigabyte RTX 2070 WINDFORCE X2 8GB
Power Supply:
650W Corsair CV650
Motherboard:
ASUS PRIME B450M-A
Cooling:
SE-224C 4 Heat Pipe
WiFi:
300N
Operating System:
Windows 10 Home x64

Would it be worth upgrading the RAM to 32GB and the HDD yo a 2TB SSD? Any other upgrade worth having? What about mouse and keyboard? Specific gaming ones I’m guessing?

The above is priced at £950 at eBuyer though Scan has a similar build but with a 2060 GPU I think.

I could build myself, though never have before, but to be honest like the convenience of pre built.

I’m guessing that this is a better option than waiting for a PS5 with PSVR?

Thanks.

[hogthrob]

I know there are a few hardcore gamers here. After 20 years of resistance to PC gaming (I’ve been a console man) the advent of great VR games has me tempted to enter PC gaming. I have a quest I use via link and am looking for a circa £1k PC. Any thoughts on this as an entry PC:

SPECIFICATIONS
Processor:
AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz (Up to 4.35GHz)
Memory:
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz (1x16GB)
Hard Drive:
240GB Corsair MP510 M.2 NVMe & 1TB Seagate BarraCuda
GPU:
Gigabyte RTX 2070 WINDFORCE X2 8GB
Power Supply:
650W Corsair CV650
Motherboard:
ASUS PRIME B450M-A
Cooling:
SE-224C 4 Heat Pipe
WiFi:
300N
Operating System:
Windows 10 Home x64

Would it be worth upgrading the RAM to 32GB and the HDD yo a 2TB SSD? Any other upgrade worth having? What about mouse and keyboard? Specific gaming ones I’m guessing?

The above is priced at £950 at eBuyer though Scan has a similar build but with a 2060 GPU I think.

I could build myself, though never have before, but to be honest like the convenience of pre built.

I’m guessing that this is a better option than waiting for a PS5 with PSVR?

Thanks.

I'd definitely go for a 2TB SSD.

[robt]

I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore gamer anymore, but that seems like a pretty well balanced spec. 16GB is probably enough for most games and the 2TB HDD is unlikely to be all that necessary in the short term - you can always upgrade later and HDDs are still roughly following Moore's law by doubling in capacity for the same money every 18 months.

If you're going to pump some extra money into anything on a gaming PC, once you have enough of everything else, it's the GPU. That will make a huge difference. Having more RAM or more storage than you actually need, won't. More video RAM means potentially higher quality textures. A faster GPU means potentially more polygons. The rest of the system only needs to be good enough to keep the GPU fed on each frame, although some physics engines etc., can be quite CPU bound so you might notice a difference in those cases with a faster CPU, but you'll almost always notice a difference with a better GPU.

If you're interested in VR gaming remember to set aside the cost of a headset and, if you don't want Facebook monitoring everything you do, avoid Oculus because they've just changed their T&Cs to require everyone using Oculus hardware to link to a Facebook account by 2023. The Vive Index is probably the best HMD on the market right now. Different HMDs may also have slightly different overheads in terms of CPU/RAM but I haven't kept up to date with them so you'd beed to check the recommended specs for whichever one(s) you're considering.

PSVR is probably a cheaper route, but it's not comparable to VR on PC at all. PS4+PSVR is a very similar experience to the Oculus Quest, except the latter is fully wireless (and also I would no longer recommend anyone buy one, given the aforementioned bait-and-switch change of TOS by Oculus/FB).

[robt]

I'd definitely go for a 2TB SSD.

I just realised the question was 2TB SSD not 2TB HDD. That might be worthwhile for faster loading times - will definitely make a difference to larger games. Depending on cost I'd maybe meet in the middle and go for 1TB without the extra NVMe SSD - for entry level, you can fit a lot of stuff in 1TB although you'll probably fill it up eventually.

[hughtrimble]

Always SSD vs HDD for gaming for the fast load times. I use multiple SSDs though, having bought more as the prices have dropped. I use an HDD for general storage of photos etc.

16GB RAM is already plenty. 32GB would not be used for gaming, and if you were still using this build when/if that day comes, you could just buy more RAM.

[thattallchap]

Doug, word of caution on your setup.

Ryzen is very sensitive (performance wise) on memory configuration (single, dual or quad channel) CL timings (CL 16/14 etc) and clock speed (3000/ 3200/ 3600 etc). There are plenty of videos to go over the deep technical reason for this however, in short - Ryzen works optimally when paired with ddr4-3200 (or higher - 3600 etc) in a dual channel memory config. What does this mean for you:

I'd recommend you change the 16Gb RAM stick for a matched pair of 2x8Gb DDR3200 - something like these would be fine.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-C...s%2C149&sr=8-4

As per your question, I wouldn't worry about a 2Tb SSD they are still crazy expensive. But, ensure your SSD is NVME and not SATA. I'd go for a minimum of 500Gb NVME

Other recommendation.

If you're able, avoid the B450 motherboard as you're locking your CPU upgrade path. If you can, get a B550 motherboard that will accept the 2700 you have spec'd and newer, not yet released AMD Ryzen processors - like the new 4xxx series due out this year. The B550 will also support much faster PCIe Gen 4 NVME storage, again giving you a better, longer upgrade path.

In summary

- Change the RAM to 2x DDR4 at 3200Mhz or above
- Make sure you have NVME storage and not SATA SSD
- Uplift to 500Gb NVME
- Change the B450 to a B550 (with PCIe Gen 4) motherboard to ensure you have a longer term upgrade path.

Hope this helps and enjoy the rig!

[sprite1275]

I'm well out of touch with today's pc parts but I would say 16gb ram is fine. Your SSD is fine for your OS and couple of games. I'd up the HDD to 2tb. Not sure about the processor but sounds tasty enough.

Not hard to build your own. I did the same back in 2013. Got fed up with console so built my own PC which I knew zero about.
Ended up with Intel 3970k, Asus premium mobo, 290X lightning GPU, 240gb SSD and 2tb HDD black.

It's still what I use today and plays everything I want fine although I don't game that much these days. I would imagine though that VR is going to need some grunt.

[hogthrob]

I just realised the question was 2TB SSD not 2TB HDD. That might be worthwhile for faster loading times - will definitely make a difference to larger games. Depending on cost I'd maybe meet in the middle and go for 1TB without the extra NVMe SSD - for entry level, you can fit a lot of stuff in 1TB although you'll probably fill it up eventually.

My suggestion was for a 2TB SSD for the C: drive.

I have a 1TB SSD C: drive, and it's half full just with general windows type stuff and day to day bits and pieces. I have a secondary 2TB HDD where I store my Steam game files. The 240Gb SSD in the original spec above would just be painful - you'd be forever clearing stuff off it.

[xellos99]

I would wait because new RAM, AMD cpu`s and Graphics cards are not all that far away and worth waiting with such a big spend IMO.

But anyway you need more storage space because modern games eat storage like anything.

The other point is i would change the power supply to get a Gold efficincy Seasonic : Seasonic Core Gold GC 650 650W 80+ Gold PSU/Power Supply

I would also go for a Samsung NVMe and an MSI graphics card.

[ryanb741]

Thanks for the question OP as this is timely for me too. I want to buy a rig exclusively to play Flight Sim 2020. What would you recommend as a spec in order to be able to play it optimally?

[thattallchap]

Thanks for the question OP as this is timely for me too. I want to buy a rig exclusively to play Flight Sim 2020. What would you recommend as a spec in order to be able to play it optimally?

Optimally is probably 1440p (2k) at 60FPS or more and Flight Sim 2020 is very CPU and GPU heavy. Running Flight Sim at 4k 60FPS with all of the effects and post processing on, will take a lot of horsepower.

For CPU, you should look at an Intel based system with at least 6 cores. Something like an i7 9700 (like mine) or a i5 10600k at the more affordable end. Flight Sim doesn't play well with AMD Ryzen as it stands today. For Graphics (GPU) you'll want something with Ray-Tracing support. An RTX 2070 Super would be the sweet spot for price v performance.

in short, something like this would be great

i5 10600K, Noctua CPU Cooler or 240mm Liquid Cooler (NZXT or Corsair are good here)
Z490 Motherboard.
2x 8Gb DDR4 3200,
500Gb or 1Tb NVME (Samsung Evo 970 or WD Black SN750)
RTX 2070 Super (Founders Edition direct from Nvidia or an EVGA based card)
Seasonic or EVGA 750W 80 Plus Gold or Platinum Power Supply

The guys at Digital Foundry know what they are talking about so have a look at this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEkNQVWkgpc&t=930s

[Phil Lee]

It’s worth thinking about what games you want to run as well. Most games are single threaded which means they run best on the fastest CPU you can get. In that case an overclockable Intel CPU often gives better performance than a Ryzen. If you do anything else with the PC the Ryzen will offer better value but for out and out performance Intel is still the way to go.

I concentrate on race sims which require a fast CPU more than anything else. That’s why I have a 9700K running at an all core overclock of 5.2GHz which makes a big difference for my sims.

[reecie]

Thanks for the question OP as this is timely for me too. I want to buy a rig exclusively to play Flight Sim 2020. What would you recommend as a spec in order to be able to play it optimally?

All the required specs with suggested builds are at https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...c-requirements

[sprite1275]

Thanks for the question OP as this is timely for me too. I want to buy a rig exclusively to play Flight Sim 2020. What would you recommend as a spec in order to be able to play it optimally?

W.O.P.R.

[Happyal]

Doug, word of caution on your setup.

Ryzen is very sensitive (performance wise) on memory configuration (single, dual or quad channel) CL timings (CL 16/14 etc) and clock speed (3000/ 3200/ 3600 etc). There are plenty of videos to go over the deep technical reason for this however, in short - Ryzen works optimally when paired with ddr4-3200 (or higher - 3600 etc) in a dual channel memory config. What does this mean for you:

I'd recommend you change the 16Gb RAM stick for a matched pair of 2x8Gb DDR3200 - something like these would be fine.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-C...s%2C149&sr=8-4

As per your question, I wouldn't worry about a 2Tb SSD they are still crazy expensive. But, ensure your SSD is NVME and not SATA. I'd go for a minimum of 500Gb NVME

Other recommendation.

If you're able, avoid the B450 motherboard as you're locking your CPU upgrade path. If you can, get a B550 motherboard that will accept the 2700 you have spec'd and newer, not yet released AMD Ryzen processors - like the new 4xxx series due out this year. The B550 will also support much faster PCIe Gen 4 NVME storage, again giving you a better, longer upgrade path.

In summary

- Change the RAM to 2x DDR4 at 3200Mhz or above
- Make sure you have NVME storage and not SATA SSD
- Uplift to 500Gb NVME
- Change the B450 to a B550 (with PCIe Gen 4) motherboard to ensure you have a longer term upgrade path.

Hope this helps and enjoy the rig!

I was going to recommend the same memory changes as above, he seems to know more about motherboards for AMD too, so it sounds like good advice to me.

The only other thing I would consider is that the 30xx series are Video cards are just about to be released. I have no idea how big of an upgrade they will be, or the cost. But it is something to consider.

[dougair]

This place never ceases to amaze. Thanks all, really helpful. I’ll look at everything suggested including what improvements may be coming later this year. I’m in no huge rush. I have an Oculus Quest but am looking to take VR up a notch and know there are some really good headsets out there/coming with awesome resolutions. Gaming wise I’m interested mostly in MMO games like Elite Dangerous and No Mans Sky, and probably Half Life Alyx. I’m basically looking to escape in to Hugh worlds Ready Player One style! Love just exploring universes and doing a bit of co-op and PvP. Also like FPS so CoD and the likes. Cheers.

[SuperVM]

I'd personally go up to a B550 motherboard and an RX 5700 XT. Not sure what that does to the budget, but if it hits it too much, then consider a Ryzen 5 3600. My machine is as follows and plays Sekiro at 4k High quite comfortably:

Ryzen 5 3600
A320 Motherboard (amazed I have been able to use this for so long)
2 x 1TB SSDs
GTX 1080 (I guess that is perhaps comparable to a 2070, perhaps a bit less?)
16 GB 2666 RAM running at 3200

If you're interested in getting the absolute most out of the next generation of graphics cards, then a B550 might be a worthwhile upgrade. Even then, I think you're unlikely to saturate PCIE 3 with SLI. It probably is worth it for the continued CPU support though.

[SuperVM]

The other thing is there are significant rumours that both AMD and Nvidia are releasing new GPUs next month and the Ryzen 4000 gen CPUs are also imminent, as well as the new A520 chipset (which is the budget option). Perhaps worth waiting if you can?

[dougair]

The other thing is there are significant rumours that both AMD and Nvidia are releasing new GPUs next month and the Ryzen 4000 gen CPUs are also imminent, as well as the new A520 chipset (which is the budget option). Perhaps worth waiting if you can?

I’m in no hurry and happy to see what the landscape looks like in the new year. Might even be able to stretch to a 2080 if prices come down!

[SuperVM]

I’m in no hurry and happy to see what the landscape looks like in the new year. Might even be able to stretch to a 2080 if prices come down!

I previously had a GTX 970 and when the 20xx cards came up I picked up my 1080 on sale. You might be able to do the same with the 2070/2070 Super/2080 when the new cards come out or it is even possible they will be a significant performance jump and the 20xx series will be very difficult to justify, though I somewhat doubt it.

[miguelh34]

What is your monitor res? 1080P ? 1440p or 4k? Free sync or G sync or neither?

2060 does not have enough video ram in my view. Await the new cards from Nvidia and AMD.

[studly]

in short, something like this would be great

i5 10600K, Noctua CPU Cooler or 240mm Liquid Cooler (NZXT or Corsair are good here)
Z490 Motherboard.
2x 8Gb DDR4 3200,
500Gb or 1Tb NVME (Samsung Evo 970 or WD Black SN750)
RTX 2070 Super (Founders Edition direct from Nvidia or an EVGA based card)
Seasonic or EVGA 750W 80 Plus Gold or Platinum Power Supply

I'd change the following for Microsoft flight simulator 2020

i5 > I7-10700k
16gb 3200 > 32gb 3600
Samsung Evo 970 > Samsung Evo 970 Plus

[hogthrob]

Sweet baby cheeses, the price of RTX 2080 cards. Are the BitCoin miners using them?

[studly]

Sweet baby cheeses, the price of RTX 2080 cards. Are the BitCoin miners using them?

The 3000 series is out next month and seems to be quite the leap. I wouldn't bother with a 2080.

[dougair]

What is your monitor res? 1080P ? 1440p or 4k? Free sync or G sync or neither?

2060 does not have enough video ram in my view. Await the new cards from Nvidia and AMD.

Thanks, monitors are 1080p, not 4K but my primary method would be VR anyway.

[miguelh34]

Thanks, monitors are 1080p, not 4K but my primary method would be VR anyway.

Still would wait I think 6 gig of ram won't be enough going forward . The 2060 super has 8 gig but i would wait for the new cards etc

[sprite1275]

Sweet baby cheeses, the price of RTX 2080 cards. Are the BitCoin miners using them?

GPU prices are stupid. So much so that if mine dies I might have to go back to console.

[RichS]

There is never a good time to buy PC tech. If you wait a couple of months, there will be a new intel processor, or an ‘X’ version of the new gen AMD chips, or a ‘S’ or ‘Ti’ version of the new nVidia cards. I think you just need to buy in at a cost you are happy with and a decent spec to price ratio.
I’ve just built my own gaming pc Ryzen 5 3600, RTX2070 Widnforce, nVme M2 ssd, 16 gig ram, yada, yada... It is at best a current mid-range and in a month or two will be low-range. However, it runs what is apparently a very demanding sim on high graphics settings at 150fps, and about 20% CPU load. YMMV, but it doesn’t have to be about the latest, greatest, because in no time it will be old news.


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[superthrust]

I dont think there will be any landscape changing products in the next few years, not to the extent of ryzen and the 9xx series anyway.

The specs you've listed seem pretty reasonable!

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

[Gordon76]

Can anyone advise if this is a good choice for a first gaming PC for my son? I know nothing about stuff like this and hoped someone with more knowledge than I could advise.

https://www.costco.co.uk/Electronics...e-Pad/p/332878

He is primarily looking to use it for games like fortnight/call of duty etc. He wants something to run 144FPS.

Im not sure I’ll use it much, but if I were It would be to try MS flight sim. Would this machine be adequate?


I trust Costco, and usually they have good quality electronics and a great returns policy

Thanks in anticipation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hughtrimble]

Can anyone advise if this is a good choice for a first gaming PC for my son? I know nothing about stuff like this and hoped someone with more knowledge than I could advise.

https://www.costco.co.uk/Electronics...e-Pad/p/332878

He is primarily looking to use it for games like fortnight/call of duty etc. He wants something to run 144FPS.

Im not sure I’ll use it much, but if I were It would be to try MS flight sim. Would this machine be adequate?


I trust Costco, and usually they have good quality electronics and a great returns policy

Thanks in anticipation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The specs state it's a 60 Hz monitor. What he'll be misunderstanding is the obsession with high refresh rate monitors in gaming, 144 Hz plus (frequently confused with FPS). As such, that package isn't what he actually wants.

[miguelh34]

Can anyone advise if this is a good choice for a first gaming PC for my son? I know nothing about stuff like this and hoped someone with more knowledge than I could advise.

https://www.costco.co.uk/Electronics...e-Pad/p/332878

He is primarily looking to use it for games like fortnight/call of duty etc. He wants something to run 144FPS.

Im not sure I’ll use it much, but if I were It would be to try MS flight sim. Would this machine be adequate?


I trust Costco, and usually they have good quality electronics and a great returns policy

Thanks in anticipation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possible to do better for the price

[SuperVM]

Can anyone advise if this is a good choice for a first gaming PC for my son? I know nothing about stuff like this and hoped someone with more knowledge than I could advise.

https://www.costco.co.uk/Electronics...e-Pad/p/332878

He is primarily looking to use it for games like fortnight/call of duty etc. He wants something to run 144FPS.

Im not sure I’ll use it much, but if I were It would be to try MS flight sim. Would this machine be adequate?


I trust Costco, and usually they have good quality electronics and a great returns policy

Thanks in anticipation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is assembled by AWD-IT, who are a hardware retailer:

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/

My experience with them is mixed. They are very often the cheapest supplier of a given item, which is why I've ended up using them now and again. I've had three motherboard, RAM and CPU upgrade packages from them over the years and two of them came with faulty RAM. Not so faulty the machines wouldn't boot, but faulty enough so they crashed a lot. I returned one stick of RAM and AWD-IT or Royal Mail lost it and rather annoyingly I misplaced the tracking information and the other pair I've not bothered with returning (I took the RAM out of another machine and used it as an excuse to upgrade that machine).

As for the PC you list there, it looks a reasonable spec and from what I know of the 1660 Super, it can do 144 Hz gaming, though I think the monitor they supply is only 60 Hz. I imagine the other components will be pretty reasonable brands. I think this is the same package on their site, though with less RAM and smaller SSD than via Costco:

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/intel-i5-94...ming-if10.html

The components look reasonable so far as I can see (Adata are one of the larger OEM RAM and SSD suppliers in the world) and I think that's a Corsair case, which are usually decent quality. You can upgrade to a Freesync monitor there, but you'll lose the RAM and SSD upgrade with the Costco package unfortunately.

[Gordon76]

Thanks for the feedback, he already has a half decent monitor which he saved up and bought for his xbox so think this may work, and I’ll either sell the 2nd monitor or use it as a 2nd screen for him.

I appreciate I could maybe get better for price, but love Costco’s customer service/returns policy


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[reecie]

I'd say this was better for the extra money https://www.costco.co.uk/Electronics...op-PC/p/326533 The graphics card has a better future proofing. You pays yer money and all that though. With whatever you get try and have decent base components so you can add or replace things if required.

[Hammond]

Just spotted in this thread there's a few people looking to build rigs for Flight Sim 2020. A couple of things I would say from my experiences with it over the last few days:

- It doesn't seem to actually utilise that much system RAM. Guru 3Ds analysis was the first place I read about this, and I have since confirmed it myself. If you're really pushing your budget you'll probably be fine with 16GB for this game.

- Don't push for 60fps when you're tuning your graphics settings. FS2020 is a flight sim - the action is very slow. 30fps is totally adequate. I am running a very intensive setup (5120x1440 ultrawide) and so at Ultra settings I can only achieve 25fps on a 1080Ti with HDR enabled, however at High End I am achieving close to 40. I actually dialled a few details back in and have settled on a configuration that garners me around 35fps, just to give me a little headroom.

- On that, I would say that the difference between High End and Ultra settings is barely noticeable. Textures and geometry detail appear to be the same, it's mainly an ever so slightly longer draw distance that you might notice at medium altitudes. Again have a look at some of the Guru3D side by side sliders.