Reply With QuoteI would suggest emailing them your questions directly rather than relying on the opinions of forum members
I've been considering selling one of my watches which has a value over £2500. I'm ware that this isn't covered by RMSD insurance, so have looked at other options and think from what I've read on here that using Secursus for additional insurance cover would potentially be the best option. But looking at their website (albeit only cursory on my phone) I've a few questions:
1) If I use RMSD to send the watch, what value insurance dod I declare on the actual package with Royal Mail - just the base £500, or do I have to declare up to the max £2500?
2) If using Secursus, do you have to send via RMSD or can you send by 1st class signed for instead?
I've also seen a few people recently suggest splitting the package to the watch and box separately, with two separate payments being made - one to the value of £2500 and the other for the excess. Equally I've seen somebody suggest that in the event of a loss Royal Mail wouldn't pay out if you did it this way, even if you had the 'receipts' of the transaction. What are people's opinion on whether this is a better option than using a third party insurer?
If it makes any difference I'd be looking at selling through the forum so hope that would give me some sense of security that i'd be dealing with reputable members, so it's only if the parcel was lost of damaged in transit by Royal Mail.
Thanks in advance,
Andy
I would suggest emailing them your questions directly rather than relying on the opinions of forum members
With one or two recent attempts at scams on here any expensive watches i sell/buy in the future will be only face to face.
It may mean i will limit my market but at least i will sleep soundly at night.
If it works in a similar way to ParcelPro then always send it RMSD but with base insurance. Then insure via the 3rd party for full watch value.
I wouldn’t send anything of any value via 1st Class Signed. It’s not tracked at all.
In all the years I’ve been posting watches, RMSD has never failed. Except for the time it was one day late.
Same here although I bought one once & it went missing for 10 day's.
Either way DHL isn't that bad a price with full insurance. Ut all depends on the size & weight of the box. Plus the more value the watch the more the insurance.
Size & weigh is one cost & insurance is extra above £800.00
I sent a Longines Heritage Diver Chronograph to Germany & it cost about £47.00 but thoes boxes are freakin huge & weigh 3.5Kg alone so a much smaller average sized one would of been a lot cheaper.Sent from my SM-N960F using TZ-UK mobile appOriginally Posted by Onelasttime
I'll do that if I don't get an answer here, but as I've read a few members recommending their use, thought I'd ask to see if any of them chipped in. I'm not in a rush to send, but as it's a weekend I thought I might get a quicker answer through asking here than by emailing the company out of office hours.
I'd prefer that too, but as I don't drive and am unwilling to use public transport to travel under the present situation, I'm limiting myself even further if I were to ask for a buyer to come to me only.
Yes, RMSD has always been reliable for me too (touch wood!) but you make a great point about it being tracked, vs Signed for, which only shows delivery confirmation.
Maybe that's another option then. Although i suspect setting up an account with DHL and having to arrange collection is more bother than popping to the PO to send RMSD and then buying the additional Secursus insurance? Or maybe I'm just imagining it would be!
+1, that’s my experience. I’ve used RMSD literally hundreds of times and never had a problem apart from two that were late by 1 day.
I’ve heard DHL are a nightmare if they need to pay out.
To be fair I’ve never heard of anyone actually making a claim against any insurance for a missing a watch. I wonder in reality if there’d be so many get outs it just wouldn’t happen. It must be so open to fraud.
Using DHL I took it to the depot. But opened an account online afterwards pretty easily. Although I haven't used it yet but I prefer to take it to the sender whoever it is.
I can say it was delivered in 3 day's to Germany but it would probably be next day in the UK.
Sent from my SM-N960F using TZ-UK mobile app
Tbh I don't even know where our nearest DHL depot is, but as I've said in a previous comment I don't drive so unless it's close, the post office and royal mail/third party insurance sounds like a better option (especially given Rodder's comment too).
I sent a watch via RMSD last month. Value was well over £2500 so I used Secursus.
I asked them the same questions; you don't declare a value, or if you do just a nominal amount.
Secursus partner with a few carriers, all explained on their website.
It was all very easy.
Hmmm, I’ve looked a couple of times now on their site (on phone and laptop) and couldn’t see the answer. Could you provide the link to whereabouts it explains it on their site?
So you just paid for the basic £500 insurance cover direct with RMSD?
Coincidentally I’ve emailed them too with the question but good to get the answers/feedback from people that have used the service too.
There is be no point whatsoever in getting RMSD cover higher than the basic £500 because if the watch is worth more than £2500, you won't be covered so why would you pay more for that?
RMSD is just the method of delivery, Securus is the method of insurance.
Looking at the Securus website, it seems like you have to make a written claim with the carrier if it goes missing and receive a certificate of loss provided by the carrier to claim? I don't know what this is but imagine an email confirmation from Royal Mail might suffice?
You also need to take photos of the labelled packaging before you post to prove it was secure. This must be for claims for damage.
It all sounds straightforward, but you'll never really know until you need to make a claim.
What do they charge?
I couldn't find the answer to my questions, hence why I emailed them; this is the response.
Hello Andrew,
Thank you for reaching out.
We’re able to insure the highest value if you still have the original purchase invoice.
So if you still have the invoice, please insure £6500.
Instead of « watch » we recommend you to declare « Precision instrument » which less flashy without being wrong.
As you do not buy the insurance from Royal Mail, you don’t have to declare any value.
You can declare 0 or close to 0.
I hope it helps.
Kind regards,
Romain Perez | Account Manager
Instructions from their website.
Packaging instructions
Learn how to send a parcel in total safety. At Secursus, we try to make our conditions as clear as possible so you can get full compensation in case your parcel is lost or damaged.
Before sending your parcel, we ask you to read these 5 steps to ensure you know all the rules regarding its packaging and shipping. Should you need more information, our customer service is available to help by email.
Packaging and shipping
Your item must be properly packed in a cardboard or rigid box. Remember to protect your item in two steps: first, put your item in a first packaging such as a small box or bubble wrap, then place it in a second box resistant enough to handle the shipping (such as a cardboard box you can buy from your carrier).
Items that are not properly packed won’t be compensated by Secursus.
Moreover, it is possible that your carrier does not authorize the transportation of some large items, so make sure your item is allowed by the carrier and won’t be declined.
Parcel discretion
Nothing on the package or label must give away the nature or value of your item.
Beware of wordings which might express inadvertent reference to valuable goods. Obvious words that directly relate to valuables are strictly prohibited.
Never reveal the content of your shipment, even to the carrier (unless required by customs for export).
The customs invoice must be placed underneath the shipping label. Finally, remember to provide the full address and phone number of the recipient as well as the return address.
Pictures and information regarding damage
Before sending your parcel, always take a few pictures of your item and its packaging with the label visible. We will request these photos if your package is lost or damaged.
If your item arrives damaged, you will have to write clear reservations on the delivery note, with as much detail as possible describing the damage.
It is in your right to verify the condition of your package before signing the delivery note. If you sign the delivery note without making reservations, you will not be able to ask for compensation.
Finally, do not throw away damaged packages or boxes: pictures could be required when making your claim. We strongly advise you to inform the recipient of these requirements.
Carrier and shipping method
Secursus only covers parcels shipped with a signed-for-delivery. Items sent to or from parcel shops (that are not official carrier shops) are not covered.
We cover parcels worldwide, with the exception of countries at war or subject to an embargo (such as Syria, Iraq, North Korea, etc).
Secursus insurance is effective during 14 days starting the day the parcel is sent. Please make sure you choose a shipping method that ships quickly enough to be delivered within that time period.
If your shipment is delayed, please contact us to extend the duration of coverage.
When should you insure and what should you do in case of a problem?
You must insure your package no later than on the day of shipment. For instance, if you send your parcel in the morning, you can insure it until midnight the same day.
You can of course insure it earlier, as long as you have a tracking number.
If something goes wrong with your shipment, here is the procedure:
Contact your carrier and make a written claim (not over the phone).
Contact Secursus no later than 3 days after the originally scheduled delivery date.
In case of damage, write reservations on the delivery note with as much detail as possible.
Here are the main elements needed to make a claim:
Shipping label
Proof of value of the insured item (retail / purchase invoice or certificate of sale between 2 individuals)
Pictures of the item and packaging
Copy of the claim made to the carrier
Certificate of loss provided by the carrier
In case of damage, copy of the reservations written on the delivery note
In case of theft, a copy of the police complaint
Sent from my SM-N960F using TZ-UK mobile app
It was all straightforward, and as you say, you need to photograph the package beforehand in case of a claim.
They charge 0.6% of the value.
Proof of value of the insured item (retail / purchase invoice or certificate of sale between 2 individuals)
I wonder what they would accept as a certificate of sale between 2 individuals?
Thanks, that about sums up the answer to my original question!
Thanks for that, that clears up my original question and gives a good bit of advice on what to say is in the package.
However it does raise another question! The watch cost me £4170 and I do have the original purchase invoice as is stated in the email you got from them, so if I'm reading the advice correctly, I should insure for the higher value regardless of what I've sold it for on SC. So if it were to get lost or damaged I could claim for the original value, makes sense I suppose.
Beat me to it! I don't think that's an horrific amount for the added security and peace of mind of insurance for high value items. Whenever I've sent expensive watches out in the past (ie; >£1000) I've always taken a few pics anyway - takes all of a few seconds and gives a perceived added peace of mind that in the event of it going missing I've got some evidence of it being packaged up (not that ultimately it proves that the watch was sealed up in the box between photos I know).
write the buyer an invoice - simple. Keep trace of bank statements with payments made.
NB : DHL treats watches over €4000 or so as not acceptable for transport with them - check their terms and conditions carefully if sending high value items. DPD say they won’t ship
watches at all - RMSD no issues with separate insurance. I use https://www.shipinforsure.com/
I enquired about the certificate of sale for a watch I bought, which was sent using secursus.
It needs to include the following: names of the buyer and seller, item description, price, payment method, date and signature.
We signed a single page document setting this out. Easy.
I just insured it for what I paid for it, not what I sold it for (which was less).
[I
Thanks guys, some useful info there.
That makes sense. The difference between insuring for what would be a realistic sales price on here vs the price I paid new is about £7, so worth the extra IMO. Now I just need to decide whether I want to sell it or not (yet!)...
But this so-called certificate of sale could be forged/signed by anyone? Less so a PP invoice or bank statements.
I use ParcelPro and I've only ever insured for the amount I sold it for. My proof is the PayPal payment receipt or bank statement and any relevant emails.
Why would you claim insurance for the price you paid? It's not relevant. Your loss is the money you received as payment to post it and I doubt you'd get a claim settlement if you valued it for more?
I could be wrong but it seems daft to me. What value do you put on the Rolex 5513 you just posted? Not the price you paid for it back in the day, that's for sure.
Well regardless of what value to insure it at, I've received a slightly perplexing (to me) reply from Secursus (very pleasant I should add but not sure if it's correct?):
"Hello Andy,
Thank you for reaching out.
You can insure £2500 with Royal Mail and £500 with us, or you can just insure the full amount with us, it’s really up to you.
I know that the Royal Mail coverage is pretty good and fairly priced, I suggest you buy the RM £ 2,500 and the rest with us.
Just make sure there is no indication of value visible on the outside of the parcel.
For example, make sure the label doesn’t shows « value 2500 » or « watch », that’s very important.
I hope it helps."
I queried this as I'm sure I've read before (admittedly on here, or I might've just imagined it) that RM won't pay out if you don't declare the proper value. To which I received the following reply:
"I believe this will not invalidate your claim to Royal Mail. Maybe can you ask them directly just to have a written confirmation?
Many of our UK customers are already doing this and I have never heard of any claims denied by Royal Mail."
I'll be sure to email RM too as I've tried to find the info on their website and failed (I used to have quite strong Google-fu but my powers seem to have abandoned me in the heat!). I'll report back what I find out...
Last edited by andy100; 10th August 2020 at 18:31.
As I mentioned in one of my posts above, RM don't do 'part cover'. You are either insured with them for the full amount, or you're not. They won't pay out £2500 on a watch valued at £3000.
That's exactly what I thought! Whilst it may work out cheaper to do insurance the way that's been suggested by Secursus, it does concern me that they're giving out incorrect advice like that. I've emailed RM now anyway so once i get an official reply I can at least advise Secursus of their advice being wrong. Worrying though!
Ultimately I don't think I'll be selling the watch for the foreseeable anyway but when I do maybe the option of insisting on the buyer coming to me/meeting locally is the safest and best option (even if it does limit a potential sale).
Just to provide an update to this, as expected RM were about as much use in answering my question as a condom machine in the Vatican.
I'll post the conversation in full rather than a summary, as it was head-scratchingly painful!
Me:"Hello,
I'm looking to send a watch (that does NOT have a battery) via RMSD. It's value is £4170 so I was looking to take out third party insurance on the parcel. The company I was looking to use has advised that I can take out additional insurance with you to the value of £2500 for the watch, then 'top up' the difference in value with their insurance product.
Would this work or would any claim if the watch was lost or damaged be invalidated because the insurance cover I took with you does not cover the true value of the watch/my proof of purchase shows it has a higher value? I have all appropriate proof of original purchase cost and would naturally follow correct guidelines on how to package and post the watch.
Many thanks,
Andy"
RM:"Dear Andy,
Thank you for your email regarding our Special Delivery service.
I'd like to explain, that sometimes the damage, delay or loss of an item can lead to greater loss than the actual value of the item itself. For such items you can buy our consequential loss cover of up to £10,000. This cover could be a wise choice for important legal documents or tax returns that may result in penalties if lost or not delivered on time. Just ask for consequential loss when you send your item by Special Delivery Guaranteed.
You can make a claim through our Customer Services within 14 days of posting. You will need to provide the receipt for purchase as well as proof of the value of the indirect loss in order to make a claim.
You can find full details of our compensation levels by visiting the below link:
https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk...guaranteed-1pm
Thank you for your email and hope you've found this information useful. If you need further help, please visit our Help and Support Centre on our website at www.royalmail.com/help.
Regards
M******
Royal Mail"
Me:"Dear M******,
Thank you for your reply but you've missed the point of my question entirely. The value of the item I wish to send is greater than the £2500 max cover. It is not something that I can cover for consequential loss cover as it isn't documents! Could you please re-read and answer my original question?
Regards,
Andy"
And a follow up to clarify:Dear M******,
To summarise my original question again as I realised it may not have been clear.
- I have a watch with a value of £4170 I wish to send via RMSD.
- I contacted a third party company who offer insurance for higher value items to ask what level of RMSD value insurance (£500, £1000, £2500) I should take when sending the parcel, as I was planning on insuring the total £4170 value with them.
- They advised I could take out the maximum £2500 insurance offer by RM, and 'top-up' the difference of £1670 with them (rather than just insure the full value with them).
I don't think this is correct information and in the event of an issue, any claim if the watch was lost or damaged would be invalidated because the insurance cover I took with you does not cover the true value of the watch/my proof of purchase shows it has a higher value? Is this correct, or can I 'split' the insurance and 'part-insure' the watch with RM for £2500 and the remainder with the third party insurance provider?
Thank you and kind regards,
Andy
RM:"Dear Andy
Thank you for your further email.
After seeking further advise on your enquiry, I am sorry but if you are sending an item via Royal Mail, the item can only be insured up to our maximum value. Therefore, we can not comment on third party insurers.
I appreciate that this response may come as a disappointment, and I apologise that I am unable to offer you a more favourable reply.
I’m sorry you’ve had to contact us and I hope you find this information of some use. If you still need help, please visit our Help and Support Centre at www.royalmail.com/help.
Regards
C*****
Royal Mail
Like I say, utterly no use whatsoever. I don't trust the advice given out by Secursus nor do I trust Royal Mail to pay out if I did follow the suggested path of splitting the insurance. As much as I'd love to point out to Secursus that they're wrong, to stop others from potentially getting caught out by this advice, unfortunately the answers given by Royal Mail don't help at all! I think when I come to sell the watch, I'll either state collection only, or stump up the extra to take out full cover solely with Secursus. What a sh*t show but also worrying that people are being given this sort of advice and potentially risking their cover on sending high value items that ultimately won't be covered at all, or for a small proportion of the true value!
Last edited by andy100; 18th August 2020 at 10:50.
PM me if you want an alternate insurer. They used to post here but probably rather busy in the insurance business I guess now. I have used them (and others here in TZ).- US based but International insurers. Their name is in this thread on my post btw. Martyn.
From their site:
https://www.shipinforsure.com/terms-conditions.phpIFS In4Sure offers an insured shipping solution to the jewelry, wristwatch and refining industries. Our customers range from wholesale to retail and even private individuals who are shipping valuable goods domestic and international.Our team at IFS In4Sure has many years of experience in managing and mitigating risks. Our risk management has been proven and tested to prevent and reduce losses. We offer insured shipping solutions with personalized service.
IFS In4sure offers domestic and international insured shipping solutions in close collaboration with our shipping partner FedEx and trusted insurance from our broker Wexler IJB Insurance brokers underwritten by Lloyds of London.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 18th August 2020 at 16:56.
Thanks Martyn, I’ll drop you a line. Andy
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