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Thread: Massive Explosion in Beirut

  1. #51
    Master flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    No! the Richard Montgomery, if it went up it would do a lot of damage to Southend and bits of Kent
    Hi

    If you fancy removing the masts , it's currently out for tender:

    http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W24/728498476

    Good luck !

    Best Neil

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    Yeah we used them for that too. Polybagging we called it
    Haha that’s the word...


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  3. #53
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    Wierdly omitting what's underneath the masts! I thought these military contracts only existed in the film Wardogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    If you fancy removing the masts , it's currently out for tender:

    http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W24/728498476

    Good luck !

    Best Neil

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    I have ammonium nitrate in my garage, 25KG bag used as fertiliser.

    Time to get rid of it, looking at that explosion it would probably blow up my garage
    Time to spread it on the lawn?

  5. #55
    Ammonium nitrate based explosives were a favourite of the I.R.A. during their campaign of terror ,mainly due to the ease of getting hold of the readily and easily obtained ingredients .

  6. #56
    Master raptor's Avatar
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    Similar incident
    Lost a dear navy seal friend


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evange...Base_explosion

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Just seen this, quite staggering.

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    For comparison this is the Lochnagar crater from WW1 caused by 60,000 lbs of explosive.


  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    For comparison this is the Lochnagar crater from WW1 caused by 60,000 lbs of explosive.

    Thats a big crater alright, and it illustrates just how much explosive material must have been stored in Beirut docks to create the far bigger crater there. Note that the two docked ships appear to have been pushed also.

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  9. #59
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    Here are a couple of satellite shots that show the docks area before and after the blast. You can see how the place has been flattened....note the ship to the top of the ‘after’ picture that looks like it’s been capsized.
    (Pictures from Daily Overview)






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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Here are a couple of satellite shots that show the docks area before and after the blast. You can see how the place has been flattened....note the ship to the top of the ‘after’ picture that looks like it’s been capsized.
    The ship does look like it's on its side in the after picture, and you can clearly see how the nearer two have been pushed away by the blast and pivoted on their moorings. The buildings in the lower left hand corner on the other side of the docks look to have attained great damage also.

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Here are a couple of satellite shots that show the docks area before and after the blast. You can see how the place has been flattened....note the ship to the top of the ‘after’ picture that looks like it’s been capsized.
    (Pictures from Daily Overview)






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    That is quite simply astonishing and sadly the death toll keeps creeping up


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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jega View Post
    Ammonium nitrate based explosives were a favourite of the I.R.A. during their campaign of terror ,mainly due to the ease of getting hold of the readily and easily obtained ingredients .
    The Manchester Bomb was about 1500kg, this one was about 2,440,000 Kg.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  13. #63
    The list of previous AN incidents on wikipedia is staggering, thought we were supposed to learn from these things. The incidents in Germany are a bit shocking, thinking it was a good idea to use mining explosives to break up big amounts of AN that had clumped together

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disaster

  14. #64
    An updated summary: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/v...n-footage.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    The Manchester Bomb was about 1500kg, this one was about 2,440,000 Kg.
    Are you sure about that figure? It seems way off what I've read.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  15. #65
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    Massive Explosion in Beirut

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post

    Are you sure about that figure? It seems way off what I've read.

    R
    I thought the same. That seems way to high.

    Edit: actually, scratch that. A quick prod on the calculator shows it comes in at just shy of 2.45 tonnes. So judging by the figure quoted above, it’s correct.
    Really brings home how much was there when you convert the measures.
    Last edited by jaytip; 6th August 2020 at 10:56.

  16. #66
    Master Artistmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    Yep the Montgomery is still sitting off the Isle is Sheppy.
    There are some seriously scary predictions for London and the South East if that went up. It still contains 1400 tonnes of TNT!!!!!
    It's a great spot for fishing during the winter though when the cod start running up the Estuary....

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOAT View Post
    Just wondering if that WW2 cargo boat full of munitions is still festering away in the Thames estuary?
    That’s reckoned to be able to cause some trouble if it goes off, suppose it’s relatively safe under water...
    At some point salt water corrosion will probably see some part of the ships superstructure collapse down on to something delicate and unstable.
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  18. #68
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    PS. I live where the ' U ' in Southend is....doh !

    Best Neil

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I thought the same. That seems way to high.

    Edit: actually, scratch that. A quick prod on the calculator shows it comes in at just shy of 2.45 tonnes. So judging by the figure quoted above, it’s correct.
    Really brings home how much was there when you convert the measures.
    I suggest you try again
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    I have ammonium nitrate in my garage, 25KG bag used as fertiliser.

    Time to get rid of it, looking at that explosion it would probably blow up my garage
    A 25kg bag should be safe, it can`t get hot enough in the centre to lead to a runaway decomposition/explosion. Large quantities are a different matter, the ratio of surface area: volume limits heat losses and consequently the core gets v. hot when decomposition begins. Slow decomposition becomes v. rapid as temperature rises and eventually goes into a runaway situation.

    Despite a background in which includes chemical hazard studies I was amazed at this incident, I hadn`t realised how dangerous ammonium nitrate in storage conditions could be. What's disturbing is the fact that similar incidents have happened in the past, this was entirely preventable.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    I have ammonium nitrate in my garage, 25KG bag used as fertiliser.

    Time to get rid of it, looking at that explosion it would probably blow up my garage
    A 25kg bag should be safe, it can`t get hot enough in the centre to lead to a runaway decomposition/explosion. Large quantities are a different matter, the ratio of surface area: volume limits heat losses and consequently the core gets v. hot when decomposition begins. Slow decomposition becomes v. rapid as temperature rises and eventually goes into a runaway situation.

    Despite a background in which includes chemical hazard studies I was amazed at this incident, I hadn`t realised how dangerous ammonium nitrate in storage conditions could be. What's disturbing is the fact that similar incidents have happened in the past, this was entirely preventable.

  22. #72

    Massive Explosion in Beirut

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    An updated summary: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/v...n-footage.html

    Are you sure about that figure? It seems way off what I've read.

    R
    Hardly way off, could easily be reported slightly differently elsewhere.
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 6th August 2020 at 11:55.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Hardly way off, could easily be reported slightly differently elsewhere.
    It could have been reported slightly differently elsewhere of course, but then I wouldn’t have made my comment. I’m talking about significantly different figures being reported.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    It could have been reported slightly differently elsewhere of course, but then I wouldn’t have made my comment. I’m talking about significantly different figures being reported.

    R
    Link please to the significantly different figures.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Link please to the significantly different figures.
    Of course.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/beirut-...r-of-all-bombs

    https://www.axios.com/beirut-nuclear...91c5da4e9.html

    https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...rut-explosion/

    https://globalnews.ca/news/7251572/b...onium-nitrate/

    '2,440,000 Kg' is the equivalent of 2,400 tons.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I suggest you try again
    I just did. Please tell me where i am working it out wrong?
    I tonne=1000Kg
    1000kg x 2500=2,500,000

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I just did. Please tell me where i am working it out wrong?
    I tonne=1000Kg
    1000kg x 2500=2,500,000
    This is correct. In your initial post you used a decimal separator (full stop) rather than the thousand separator (comma). So what you wrote was 2.45 tonnes, or 2,450 kg.

    Hence my smiley, too, as in France the comma is the decimal separator, and the thousand separator is the space. Needless to say I got caught more than once
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    This is correct. In your initial post you used a decimal separator (full stop) rather than the thousand separator (comma). So what you wrote was 2.45 tonnes, or 2,450 kg.

    Hence my smiley, too, as in France the comma is the decimal separator, and the thousand separator is the space. Needless to say I got caught more than once
    Oh aye I didn’t realise I had done that. Well spotted.

  29. #79
    2,750 tonnes vs 2,440 tonnes doesn’t seem worth pulling Andy up over TBH.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    2,750 tonnes vs 2,440 tonnes doesn’t seem worth pulling Andy up over TBH.
    I wasn't pulling him up, I asked him if he was sure of the figure as what I'd read suggested it was way off.

    E.g.
    Jeffrey Lewis, a nuclear and conventional weapons expert at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies in California, estimated the yield to be "between 200 and 500 tons, looking at blast damage, the shockwave, seismic signals and the size of the crater."
    With an explosive yield of a few hundred tons, the Beirut blast would have been dozens of times less powerful than the atomic bomb that devastated Hiroshima, which had an estimated yield of about 15 kilotons.
    The explosive power would, however, be comparable to the lowest yield B61 nuclear gravity bomb, which is believed to have an explosive yield of around 300 tons.
    A better estimate of the size will be available from a closer look at the damage patterns; but it looks initially that only a small fraction of the 2750 tons actually detonated – hundreds of tons of TNT equivalent, not thousands.
    The power that comes from 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate blowing up is hard to calculate because it depends on a variety of factors, such as whether it was stacked on top of one another, Kristensen said.
    “But there are a couple of early estimates that say it is equivalent to 0.24 kilotons, so 240 tons of TNT,” he said.
    Perhaps Andyg will show his source, or your could show were you got 2,750 from.


    R
    Last edited by ralphy; 6th August 2020 at 15:20.
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    I wasn't pulling him up, I asked him if he was sure of the figure as what I'd read suggested it was way off.

    E.g.






    Perhaps Andyg will show his source, or your could show were you got 2,750 from.


    R
    Those links you show are the yield of the explosion, i.e the equivalent in terms of TNT. It's a term usually linked to nuclear weapons, i.e this nuke had a yield equivalent to X tons of TNT. It is not to do with the amount of AN that was there

    The actual amount of AN was apparently around 2750 Tonnes = 2.75 million kg = 3031 US Tons

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Of course.


    R
    Ta....I’ll have a read.

  33. #83
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    Yes, I'm not an expert and I'm aware there are experts on the forum.

    But my primitive understanding is that this thing was like the smallest tactical nuke in terms of yield although the blast and effects would be very different of course.

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Brighty View Post
    Those links you show are the yield of the explosion, i.e the equivalent in terms of TNT. It's a term usually linked to nuclear weapons, i.e this nuke had a yield equivalent to X tons of TNT. It is not to do with the amount of AN that was there

    The actual amount of AN was apparently around 2750 Tonnes = 2.75 million kg = 3031 US Tons
    You are correct and I assumed that was what Andy was referring to, i.e. the equivalent of TNT. This misunderstanding arose as he had referenced the Manchester bomb as ‘about 1500kg’ and AFICR the bomb was in the rucksack of the bomber, so I assumed that he was referring to the TNT equivalent.
    Either way, I accept that I got it wrong and for that I apologise.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  35. #85
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    Sadly, Manchester has suffered a terrorist bombing more than once; I believe AndyG was referring to the 1996 IRA bombing that was fertiliser based, ca. 1500kg of explosives in a large van

    The 2017 Manchester Arena bombing was carried out by a rucksack contained device, and used a different explosive type that I won’t detail.

    I remember both events vividly (but luckily I wasn’t near either of them).

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    You are correct and I assumed that was what Andy was referring to, i.e. the equivalent of TNT. This misunderstanding arose as he had referenced the Manchester bomb as ‘about 1500kg’ and AFICR the bomb was in the rucksack of the bomber, so I assumed that he was referring to the TNT equivalent.
    Either way, I accept that I got it wrong and for that I apologise.
    R
    He was evidently referencing the IRA Manchester bomb which was 1,500 kg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jega View Post
    Ammonium nitrate based explosives were a favourite of the I.R.A. during their campaign of terror ,mainly due to the ease of getting hold of the readily and easily obtained ingredients .
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    The Manchester Bomb was about 1500kg, this one was about 2,440,000 Kg.
    Incidentally, the Manchester rucksack explosive is less powerful than TNT so rucksack would be even heavier!
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 6th August 2020 at 18:08.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Yes, I'm not an expert and I'm aware there are experts on the forum.

    But my primitive understanding is that this thing was like the smallest tactical nuke in terms of yield although the blast and effects would be very different of course.
    Experts and experts and yet not always the same I find

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Incidentally, the Manchester rucksack explosive is less powerful than TNT so rucksack would be even heavier!
    It provides 70 - 80% of the power of TNT.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  39. #89

    Massive Explosion in Beirut

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    It provides 70 - 80% of the power of TNT.
    It does, though for the Manchester bombing as ‘home made’ probably at the lower end of the range, if that.
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 6th August 2020 at 20:51.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    It does, though for the Manchester bombing as ‘home made’ probably at the lower end of the range, if that.
    Sadly it was a highly effective and quite sophisticated bomb, and many young innocent people were brutally murdered and others maimed for life.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Sadly it was a highly effective and quite sophisticated bomb, and many young innocent people were brutally murdered and others maimed for life.
    This.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Sadly, Manchester has suffered a terrorist bombing more than once; I believe AndyG was referring to the 1996 IRA bombing that was fertiliser based, ca. 1500kg of explosives in a large van

    The 2017 Manchester Arena bombing was carried out by a rucksack contained device, and used a different explosive type that I won’t detail.

    I remember both events vividly (but luckily I wasn’t near either of them).

    Clearly I was, but obviously Ralphy thought that 1500kg (of anything), could be fitted inside a ruck sack and then be carried into Manchester city by one person. Neat trick, perhaps he can provide a link.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Clearly I was, but obviously Ralphy thought that 1500kg (of anything), could be fitted inside a ruck sack and then be carried into Manchester city by one person. Neat trick, perhaps he can provide a link.
    If Ralphy was Lewis Hamilton you would be defending the fact that he could carry it.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Sadly it was a highly effective and quite sophisticated bomb, and many young innocent people were brutally murdered and others maimed for life.
    Yes, they were.

  45. #95
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    A video has turned up with what appears to be a missile hitting the building immediately preceding the explosion!




    John

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbaz View Post
    A video has turned up with what appears to be a missile hitting the building immediately preceding the explosion!


    John

    Looks like a bird - maybe wearing a tinfoil hat.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbaz View Post
    A video has turned up with what appears to be a missile hitting the building immediately preceding the explosion!

    John
    Fake video, discussed on various news sites.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    The ship does look like it's on its side in the after picture, and you can clearly see how the nearer two have been pushed away by the blast and pivoted on their moorings. The buildings in the lower left hand corner on the other side of the docks look to have attained great damage also.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
    The ship is indeed on its side. Picture taken from THIS BBC article.


  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    The ship is indeed on its side.
    Incredible! I also wonder how many lives and buildings were inadvertently protected by the huge structure situated directly behind the blast.



    Last edited by Ruggertech; 7th August 2020 at 15:39.

  50. #100
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    If Ralphy was Lewis Hamilton you would be defending the fact that he could carry it.
    But he isn’t is he. Plus I very much doubt Lewis could carry the equivalent of two F1 cars anywhere. Why are you suggesting he could?

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