At the rear of my garden there's an access path that runs the length of about 7 houses (it serves no useful purpose, as all of the houses are full fenced-in at the rear - no idea why it's there at all, to be honest). Anyway, I've shaded it green on the plan below - my house is edged in red.
For years now the path has become increasingly overgrown with nettles, blackberry bushes etc, to the extent that I'm now fighting to keep the foliage out of my garden in order to prevent damage to my rear fence and adjacent sheds.
My assumption is that maintenance of the path is the responsibility of the council but I'd like to speak to someone to confirm that and to arrange for both immediate and ongoing maintenance to be carried out. Can anyone point me in the right direction with regard to department - would it be environmental health in the first instance?
Thanks as always
The way Council resources are - I doubt they would do anything unless it was hogweed.
I'd be inclined to take a battery trimmer along each side or just a spray of roundup (which saves all the sweeping up).
Of course - none of your neighbours will assist, they'll leave it to you.
Oh dear - that's not good news. There's so much growth in there it's almost a solid wall the full extent of the path; it would be too big a job for me to take on, and would cost a small fortune if I got someone in to do it.Originally Posted by blackal
I wonder if the fact that it's now causing damage would galvanise the council into action?
Lots of terraced houses had similar access paths to the rear. Many become disused, my brother has a similar one behind his. He’s never been able to trace who actually owns it. Hope you have better luck.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Tony - I’m away for a few days but send me your postcode (or title number if you know it) and I will be able to see whether it’s registered or not on MapSearch.
If any of your neighbours will club together with you then getting a contractor to clear it is probably your only practical solution.
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Alternatively, there may be a solution for you and your neighbours to increase the size of their garden... No more path leading to nowhere, no more maintenance for the council, bigger garden for all.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
This, it's how I'd be looking at resolving the situation.
Could it have been an alley for the binmen back in the day, if yes it's the council's land.
If there's any safety issues, you should notify them and see where it goes from there.
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Maybe even the coalman.
I've found EH one of the most reactive departments in the council so if you could make it their problem that would be a good approach, would be a better case if kids had been playing on that land and hurting themselves though, or if someone in your household was allergic to something growing there. If it's only unsightly and annoying then that might not be enough to make it stick with them.
Don't you have a road maintenance department or parks or someone who you could start with just to ask which department you need?
Maybe mention seeing rats back in there, might galvanise EH.
My grandparents had such an alley used for coal deliveries, bins and general access to rear garden - don’t see it has to be council’s land.
Pity they’re still not used TBH, preferable to wheelie bins stuck in front gardens.
I'd get it cleared then build a nice big garage for the bikes!
I was under the impression that houses had to have rear access that didn't go through the house in case of fire etc. If this actually is the case then it most certainly IS an H&S issue as there is no rear escape route or access for fire services (for example). Also, if the case, this precludes the garden expansion idea.
I'm actually an end of terrace so have side access to the kitchen door and garden. I did wonder if it was an emergency access issue, but the houses just beyond the extent of the path clearly don't/didn't require it so it's probably a red herring. Thanks, though.
If you have the title number it’s a £3 x 2 job on the land registry website.
£3 for a copy of the title plan
£3 for a copy of the title register
I come across small land like this all the time in my business and if it were me I’d take a petrol strimmer to it which if you haven’t got one, you can rent one from your local HSS or similar for about £25 for the day. Once it’s been brought down to ground level I would then buy your self some “rosate 360” from eBay for about £25 for 5 litres and weed kill the site which should kill it off for at least 3 months. It’s not as hard as you think, but definitely set aside one or two days. If it’s to your benefit I would definitely give it a go..
I've already downloaded a copy of the title plan (I posted a redacted version of it) - it doesn't clarify ownership of the path.
Noted re the DIY option, but I'd first like to pursue whether there's a liability with the council.
Ah, ok. Well you have the option of downloading the title register as well. This will tell you who owns the land and also any rights of way etc. This would be my first port of call.
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My house has a path much the same as yours,it’s no adopted so the council won’t do anything.Ive been clearing it for years at my expense .
That being the case, and if ownership cannot be traced I think I'd have a word with the neighbours and all quietly move fences back to incorporate the path into our gardens.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Tony my recent escapades with neighbours and land issues (I posted about my wall) tell me that the Council don’t want to know. They said it was a private matter from start to finish. The only person there that had any interest was the conservation officer who wanted to know everything!! Not in a good way. I’d download all your deeds and possibly your neighbours which is £3 a go from memory, just for clarification as it could be that one of them actually owns it.
Oh and I’d try and get all the neighbours to resolve it jointly and amicably. Harder than it sounds. So far 75% of us are in agreement and we’re battling the 25% - were being friendly but factual. If you need any specifics about ambiguous land etc my Solicitor went through it in details so if you want a chat, I can tell you about my issues and there may be some similarities applicable to yours. Good luck Stephen
Well, I did what you suggested and it's not good news (for clarity, the path I've coloured green would be "passageway coloured brown" as referred to in the Register:
1 (28.08.1996) The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the
above Title filed at the Registry and being [my address].
2 (28.08.1996) The land has the benefit of the following rights granted
by but is subject to the following rights reserved by a Conveyance of
the land in this title dated 2 March 1934 made between (1) Mr X (Vendor) and (2) Mr Y (Purchaser):-
"AND TOGETHER ALSO with a right of way in common with others entitled
thereto over the cartway and strip of land coloured blue on the said
plan and over the passageway coloured brown on the said plan the
Purchaser and his successors in title paying a fair proportion of the
cost of keeping the said passage way in repair Except nevertheless and
Reserving unto the Vendor or other the owner or owners for the time
being of the adjoining messuages on the South side a right of drainage
through the sewers or drains laid through or under the property hereby
conveyed in the position approximately indicated by the red lines on
the said plan."
NOTE: The land coloured brown referred to is the passageway leading
from the back into XXX Lane. The land coloured blue referred
to is the XXX Lane. The sewers or drains shown by red lines
referred to are shown by a blue broken line on the filed plan.
3 (28.08.1996) The Conveyance dated 2 March 1934 referred to above
contains the following provision:- "The wall dividing the same from the adjoining messuage on the South
side thereof being a party wall and to be used repaired and maintained
accordingly. IT IS HEREBY DECLARED that the Purchaser shall not be entitled to any
easement or right of light air or otherwise which will in any manner
diminish restrict or interfere with the free and unrestricted user of
any adjoining or neighbouring land of the Vendor either for building or
any other purpose and this Deed shall not be construed to imply the
grant of any such right."
I can't quite work out where the party wall referred to in para 3 is, nor who's responsible for its maintenance. It does seems as if I'm one of (probably) 7 households responsible for maintenance of the path, though.
NB: As an aside, I've asked my gardner for a quote to cut back and weed kill the entire path. Once I've got a price I can have a chat with the owners of the other 6 houses.
We had a similar access path down the side of our house, giving access to three houses gardens. It was owned by one house with right of way access granted to the other two. The title deeds showed this nicely - shame its not so clear on the ones you've got (they helped a lot when the other neighbour decided it was their land and a little argument spanning years ensued).
We all used to pay someone to keep it clear - original purpose was for cars apparently as the houses has garages are the back, but modern cars wouldn't fit.
Apparently it belongs to the original developers.
Annex the area immediately behind your property.
Store your bins/rubbish on it.
Someone will soon be along to sort it.
Can’t see that ever happening.
It may be a (in Scotland- ‘right of servitude’) lane owned collectively by the gardens backing on to it and required to be kept as a common access. That puts the burden on the collective owners.
It could be that a few of the neighbours like it to be impassible - as it stops thieving scrotes from gaining access to their back gardens?
That could well be the case indeed.
On the other hand, there is a timing limit I believe and if they stay under the radar long enough with their garden extended they would have a case?
Completely out of my comfort zone so the above could well be rubbish. Sorry.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I imagine every house has a similar right of access to mine, and similar maintenance responsibilities.
As an aside, the reason I've left it for so long is that I was indeed burgled back in January '06, and access was gained via this very path. However, back then the path led to a school site that was a security risk at night. The school has since been demolished and the entire area redeveloped as quite expensive housing. The risk profile is quite different now so I wouldn't be nervous if the path was properly accessible (and I've also now got an intruder alarm with a very visible box at the back of the house).
I thought these small alleys were for the disposal of old sofas and washing machines?
If neighbours have right of way over the passage I don't believe there is a time limit.
Is right of way permanent, even if in complete disuse (and no access to the neighbours' properties)?
In any case they all benefit from the extension, and lose nothing since it's not in use. The only reasons they would have to object is if they can't be bothered by the increase, or they have a grudge with one of the neighbours.
But even if they all agree the matter would be far from done.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In this case the right of access, is permanent. A 'right of way' is a different thing, and can be voided by lack of use over time.
In simple terms - if it is in a property's title deeds - the amenity cannot be voided.
{edit} The hassle of getting everyone to agree, change all the title deeds etc ----------- not worth it, and only needs one dissenter.
Last edited by blackal; 3rd August 2020 at 12:53.
Thank you
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
If that was at the end of my garden, I wouldn’t bother trying to control the weeds physically, I would just carefully spray it with a strong universal weed killer. Your neighbours could do the same.
Pete
Were the three properties circled in red built more recently than yours? I notice that only the houses backing onto the left hand one of these have an alley, while none of the others houses in the street do. It possibly suggests that eight or nine houses sold a piece of land at the bottom of their garden for these three properties to be built, and the alley was created at that time. If that is the case, there would presumably be some documentation regarding the alley.
Who probably retained ownership as a ransom strip then?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yes, I was wondering if that kind of deal was struck at some point in the past; however, the style of all three houses is identical to the others fronting the main road (typical 1930s), so there was certainly no substantive delay in them being built.
Were the three properties circled in red built more recently than yours? I notice that only the houses backing onto the left hand one of these have an alley, while none of the others houses in the street do. It possibly suggests that eight or nine houses sold a piece of land at the bottom of their garden for these three properties to be built, and the alley was created at that time. If that is the case, there would presumably be some documentation regarding the alley.
I guess it could equally have been the consequence of squeezing three more houses onto that plot at the time the site was developed. Prior to the school being built (which I assume was about 30 years later) there may have been some planning constraints preventing further residential development, as I'm pretty sure it would have been woodland immediately to the east.
The properties backing on to the lane would originally have an open space at the back, and hence access to their back gardens (for those that are terraced especially). It was probably a condition of the further development (three houses circled) - that there was an access lane left to allow access to the original houses’ rear gardens.
The houses north of those don’t require access modifications as they still retain original access.
Not a ransom strip as such. But - the original developer will be long gone, so maintaining it will be down to an individual or a collective.
I know of terraced housing in Scotland (my parents had such a house) where there was a right of access along the very rear of the garden inside the garden. (and gates fitted) to allow access along the row. It works fine until a sh*thead neighbour moves in and blocks it off.
Actually, that does make perfect sense. As I say, though, the three houses are identical in style to all the others - I wonder if it might actually have been the consequence of a resubmission of the original planning by the same developer, having realised that the plot would take a few more units.
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