Reply With QuoteThey are useless.Originally Posted by dice
First of all apologies if my tone is off, I am not-so-secretly seething at the moment. I'm going to leave some details out as if this becomes legal in the courts I don't know if detailing it here wouldn't be in my interest.
I could really use the wealth of experience on here on how best to deal with this. The short version is I made a car insurance claim for theft of the vehicle. It has been a two month process to get here since that happened and I've fully cooperated with the insurer, and their 3rd party investigators. I was nervous, but researching online if your claim is honest and true there should be little to worry about, so I was very forthcoming and open with them. Imagine my shock then when I'm told they have denied the claim, and a general blurb at the end at how it will possibly be forwarded to the ABI and Police if they deem it necessary.
I am furious and now stressed at the same time. But I'm holding myself back from taking any rash action right now and shooting myself in the foot down the line. I have done some quick research and it looks like the Insurance Ombundsman is my first port of call. My question is, is there anything else I can do to fight my corner? I don't know if there is any need/efficacy for a solicitor at this point, etc. Clearly cooperation hasn't gone in my favour and on principle alone, I want to clear this matter up.
Thanks for reading
They are useless.
Are they inferring that you are up to some nefarious activity?
Is so what what grounds do they have to come to that conclusion.
Surely if your car has been stolen and it’s whereabouts are unknown they should be honouring the claim.
Just for ref I have no links to the insurance industry or claims process.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
They may or may not but but I suspect (and I am in no way qualified to offer any precise opinion) that, if this is taken further i.e. legal, it will be necessary to show that 'process' has been followed so it probably does have to go to the Ombudsman.
Maybe just worth checking though whether taking it to the Ombudsman limits any future options.
No. I'm still in a fifteen year old dispute with an insurer and the ombudsman has been no help whatsoever. Quite the opposite in fact.
I'll try to clarify this without giving too much. Like I said if it ends up in the courts it might go against me to have documented it online.
Car was stolen, then found later, and in the time it took to contact the insurance to update them and arrange transit (this was over 1 night, reduced call centre hours due to COVID) there was another theft of vehicle parts, not the vehicle itself. The letter they wrote me doesn't show anything concrete, its all purely speculation and "could have beens". It feels like they're batting this claim away in the hope I'm not well informed enough or too intimidated to fight it. The vehicle itself is currently at a garage.
I'm sure there are a couple of people here that work in the motor insurance industry...hopefully they can help. Worth clearing your name...doesn't this effect future insurance applications?
Sounds very unfair...is this a major insurer?
I suspect that the theft followed by a later parts theft is flagging something that would cause them to question the whole claim?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
<deleted in the light of new info that appeared as I was typing>
Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 30th July 2020 at 11:40.
Was your claim for a stolen vehicle or stolen parts in the end?
Seems that way. I like to think I'm reasonable, I can see it from their point of view but I'm seething because it looks like they've got a 3rd party investigator involved under the pretense its to "clear up any grey areas" when in actual fact it feels like it was used to insulate themselves from responsibility.
@Christian that's something else bugging me. If this does go ahead to the ABI then I can see my quotes going up in the best case scenario. Worst case insurance is flat out refused. Right now the principle and feeling of deception is what's burning me up the most. But that is something to be very worried about in the immediate future.
Originally for the vehicle, as the claim was filed when it was stolen. They were updated whenever new information/incidents happened so I don't know how they handle that administratively.
Needless to say chaps I'm not trying to cover anything nefarious or dishonest. I've fully cooperated with the insurer on the basis they were looking to clarify details for both our benefits, maybe I was too naive in the process. I am now just looking for advice on what options are available to me before I take further action, as it seems like there is only one (the Ombundsman).
This is the only reason they are going to spend money on claim, the investigator is not there to help YOU, they're 100% there to try and help the insurer. Had something similar but it was a home insurance claim, storms took tiles off the roof a couple of weeks prior to the lounge ceiling falling through dumping gallons of water everywhere. They sent an assessor who due to the layout of the roof (there were 2 apexes with a valley in the middle) couldn't see the damage even said so, but deemed it to be a lack of maintenance to the roof rather than any tiles missing and coerced me into signing something to say he'd been. I actually signed something confirming I agreed with his diagnosis.
Was livid, never got anywhere with it, and I'd not had the roof repaired for 5 additional days, with water coming through, because if I repaired before their guy came obviously he couldn't make an assessment, so even more damage occurred (buckets overflowing, more water coming through in different spots).
What a miserable time. Made me realise insurance is actually pointless.
Good luck though, don't give up.
The only thing that can help your case is that if you took photos etc after finding the vehicle showing the parts still attached.
p.s. are you fully comp or TPF&T?
p.p.s. how much is the claim for, this will play a part
Last edited by Estoril-5; 30th July 2020 at 11:57.
Cheers pal, appreciate it.
I did take photos, I asked if they wanted me to send them and the call handler said yes...and never sent me the email to reply to. That's something that fell through the cracks. Its on the recording, but of course they neglected to mention it in the letter refusing my claim formally. Fully comp, with business use. I don't know the amout the claim totalled to, as the car went to the garage for assessment. That was between the garage and the insurer.
Last edited by dice; 30th July 2020 at 12:04.
How have you been updating them? Via phone? If agents have been logging your calls while wfh maybe some information isn’t in their system or isn’t right in their system?
Im pretty sure you can go through their internal department to ask why your claim was refused, i would do that in the first instance.
The more evidence you have the better.
What exactly is the reason they are denying your claim for the stolen parts? Is it something to do with the address the vehicle was at while the parts were stolen (IIUI the car was found after the theft but couldn’t be recovered until the following day)?
If so, the address you state on your insurance as to where the car is stored overnight isn’t required to be a 100% thing. As long as you don’t say ‘Car on driveway’ and park it on the road, you are covered for leaving the car overnight away from your home no matter where (within reason, not Iraq e.t.c).
Cheers guys. There are no technicalities in my policy document that they seem to have used to refute my claim. It purely seems to be conjecture. The letter of refusal states 4 pages of detail, and then something to the effect of "we don't believe details were recorded in a timely or accurate fashion", and that's the basis the claim has been refused. There is nothing they've specifically called out and refuted as incorrect or misleading.
I think I have the general feel I was looking for. I can seek more information from the insurer (though I might give it a couple days to simmer down), and then take it to the Ombundsman. I'm not optimistic, but someone mentioned something that echoed a thought I had. It may not be effective, but it may benefit me down the line to show I have followed the appeal process as stated.
Thanks all. I'll be watching for any further thoughts but like I said, in case it strings me up down the line I don't want to go into too many specifics. I fear I may have done that already.
Ask that the thread is put in the Bear pit so it can’t be accessed by ‘outside people”?
Timely: This is a very subjective term, unless it’s in your T&Cs that you must do something in X hours you should have a good argument here. Plus you mention the call centre was shut because of COVID. Kind of blows their argument out the water here
Accurate: I assume you didn’t mis report either a location, or number of wheels stolen or anything else material
Sorry you’re having a crappy time, I can appreciate how annoyed you must be. But I do feel they’re likely trying it on with you and any reasonable person would accept you did your best in terms of reporting the facts when you could do so.
Good luck !
Sorry you're having a hard time here. ..
Who is the insurer in this case ?
Sounds awful. I'm not sure what you mean by stolen parts - something off or in the vehicle? Do they constitute damage to the vehicle? I didn't know normal car insurance covered the theft of parts, just of the whole vehicle??
Due to the vague information given, I'm struggling to fully understand the situation and reason for the repudiation of the claim by the insurer.
Contrary to popular belief, insurers dont refuse claims for the fun of it, or becasue funds are a bit tight so the CEO says stop paying claims, they have to have specific, reasons to refuse cover. Likewise, the instruction of an investigator isnt to find a reason to turn down the claim, it's to clarify the facts of what happened so that a fully informed decision can be made.
In the OP's case, to aswer his question of what are the next steps to take things further, you will need to write a complaint to the CEO of the insurer concerned (details should be contained in your policy wording) setting out the complaint.
My advice is to make the complaint factual, state precise reasons why you don't agree with the decision and facts you can prove. e.g "I'm complaining that you turned down my claim because I didnt get what I wanted and its so unfair" isn't likely to get very far, whereas "I dont feel the correct decision was made because:
1) xxxxxxx ,
2) xxxxxx,
3) xxxxxx
etc"
setting out factually, why you feel the decision is incorrect, is far more likely to get a considered response as it explains why you disagree with the decision and gives the CEO a specific avenue of investigation to look into instead of a "general review" of the claim which might miss the points you want to make.
Mistakes and misunderstandings do happen, and from experience, if one has genuinely been made by the claims handlers, the CEO is only to keen to get it resolved to the customers satisfaction, and at times a little further.
Once you have had a response from the CEO (or who they appoint to respond for them), if you are still not happy then you can escalate he matter to the FSA/Ombudsman. Again keep it factual and to the point.
Don't get drawn in to an emotional rant about how "all insurers are cheating gits", as that doesn't give your comments any more credence and could end up disengaging the person reviewing your case.
You are more likely to be given the benefit of any doubt if you are someone who comes over calm, and rationally rather than overly emotional and angry.
Last edited by Kris; 30th July 2020 at 19:12.
Kris advice below is sound. Although it’s the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) now.
The insurer must give detailed guidance why they have repudiated your claim. I suspect that they believe you have been negligent or ‘courted danger’ in legal speak.
Using the framework kris suggested below you need to argue that’s not the case. Your first step is to file a complaint under treating customers fairly.
Without knowing more we cannot give specific advice.
I wish you luck in getting this sorted.
Gather a timeline of emails and phone calls (from phone itself and provider). Can you get a copy or transcript of your call to the insurance company?
Keep photocopies and scans of all paperwork.
A few years ago my insurance company increased my excess, which they said I was aware of. I stated I renewed over the phone, where the insurance provider gave a reduced price after a spot of haggling. It was asked if anything had changed from my previous year details etc I said no. The terms will remain the same advised the insurance company.
However, after the accident the insurance company stated they had sent the renewal showing increased excess.
I asked for the transcript or recording which was not forthcoming. I then advised that on that basis they have no proof and must accept they are wrong and I am right.
Even this simple case took time to sort as each reply was sent by a different person who invariably asked the same questions as the previous person, despite answering them clearly.
Do your neighbours have CCTV or car dash cameras recording that may help.
Thanks for the advice everyone. My intention was to gather information on what steps were available to me, and you've all been incredibly helpful on this. I'm taking advice and taking a day to relax before drafting a response. Thanks all once again.
Best of luck I had a problem not quite strait forward an old bloke pulled out of a side road on to a main road as I was practically on the junction I was doing 40 in a 50 limit And I ran in to him had a witness who said it was the old farts fault Took a year to sort out in my favour
Feel free to drop me a pm, I’m 32 years insurance although my only experience of motor is my own.
When I started, the market was honourable and I’ve had Lloyds underwriters put down their stamp committing to a loss just based on having given their word. The reverse is now standard and the market is run by foul people.
The reason I always have front and rear cameras recording when I drive.
Yep. Front and back dash cam in the car and GoPro on the motorbike. The £300 GoPro has saved me about 15k on just one accident. Wouldn't be without either.
Ouch! I feel yours and OP's pain - a storm in February collapsed a chimney stack onto our roof and sunroom - the insurer has been a nightmare, and we have only had any (partial) progress because my wife through her work has a good professional relationship with a large-business insurance broker, who in turn has put pressure on the insurers. Even then the work is only partially and very unsatisfactorily completed... We're still running-around with buckets every time it rains!
I get the sense that insurers have realised they can do absolutely as they please nowadays and they will not be held accountable in any way. Their contracts are simply a long, convoluted get-out clause. As customers we have zero leverage since the anonymising race-to-the-bottom that price-comparison websites have given us means there is no longer such a thing as customer loyalty - indeed we are punished financially if we don't change insurer ever year! Madness!
I’ve have success with the ombudsman. Completely fobbed off by the insurance company but as soon as the ombudsman got involved they completely folded.
During the process I overheard some conversation between the call handler and the manager which I wasn’t supposed to hear, wish I had recorded it. Basically the manager said repudiate the claim with no knowledge of the facts, said to the call handler to just do it as most people will just give up ... the industry is a sham now bar a few decent companies.
Great to hear it is all sorted now - but what a shame to have all that grief in the meantime. Just wrong.
Has it?
Montello?
I don’t know, just pointing out that the ombudsman route can yield results in my experience.
Sorry, just thought that the person who thought OP's problem was solved might have read your post and got his wires crossed.
In my experience the Insurer (or Broker) is more likely to end up with the wrong end of the stick from FOS than the Insured is, they give so much latitude it’s unbelievable.
Anyway, for clarity the system is as follows: 1) Formal complaint to the CEO Office of the Insurer concerned 2) If the repudiation is upheld it is the Insurers “final decision” which triggers 3) Complaint to FOS the Insurer will have to signpost you to FOS (as FOS is the official ADR for Insurance complaints it would be very unwise to “go legal” before using FOS which in any event is free of charge and FOS ruling is binding on Insurer but not Insured) 4) if FOS rule in your favour happy days 5) if the rule against you you have the right to appeal and get a second (independent) FOS handler to review his/her colleagues original decision 6) if FOS appeal rules in your favour happy days 7) if FOS appeal rules against you you can still take legal action through the courts either yourself if within County Court parameters or via a Solicitor but honestly if you lose the FOS appeal you are probably peeing in the wind.
Hope this helps.
I did :)
Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
Any update OP?
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