More news for Tourists to Spain.

[Griswold]

All these hard luck sob stories fail to mention that if you booked before Covid it's all covered by your insurance - both airlines and insurance companies made great effort to tell everyone that now Covid is a known quantity you're not covered.

Fair enough take a chance if you like, but don't whine when the coin-flip doesn't fall your way.

Now, Ryanair making it almost impossible to get your cash back either way instead of a "voucher" that's another story - they should have their license taken away for their transparent excuses over this.

I booked our cruise last year, well before any mention of covid. £400 deposit. As the cruise company showed no signs of cancelling the cruise we were left with two alternatives - pay the remainder or cancel and lose the deposit.

Paying the remainder was a no no as, if the cruise went ahead, we were both in the high risk category and the risk of being stuck on a ship in the middle of a pandemic was unacceptable to us and at the point of paying the balance there was no guarantee that the company would cancel the cruise. So we cancelled the holiday and lost the deposit. £400 down the swanee, but better that than the alternative. Insurance certainly did not cover us!

[Huertecilla]

Considering the images we’ve seen of English beaches or beauty spots, and considering what we are told regarding the spread of the virus here and in other countries, it is safer to spend your holidays in Greece or Italy rather than in Devon or the Lake Districts.

Which is why, as Fernando Simon observed, from the pandemic pov it is quite positive that Britons are not coming over here :-)

For ús it means that we can go ´tourist´ in our own region during summer without the crowds. We are at the Atlantic coast nowand most parts are quiet even. It is reassuring how consciously strict everyone is wth the masks and hygene. Tables and chairs all desinfected, hands desinfected et al; exemplary.
I think Britons should do take advantage of the same and spend the money at home, win-win.
Enjoy!!

[oldoakknives]

I booked our cruise last year, well before any mention of covid. £400 deposit. As the cruise company showed no signs of cancelling the cruise we were left with two alternatives - pay the remainder or cancel and lose the deposit.

Paying the remainder was a no no as, if the cruise went ahead, we were both in the high risk category and the risk of being stuck on a ship in the middle of a pandemic was unacceptable to us and at the point of paying the balance there was no guarantee that the company would cancel the cruise. So we cancelled the holiday and lost the deposit. £400 down the swanee, but better that than the alternative. Insurance certainly did not cover us!

Choose life.

[jaytip]

Sounds like you had a great time - and a big plus point is that you didn't risk bringing a deadly disease back into the country

You make it sound as if we are covid free and not actually one of the worst hit in the world.

[MrSmith]

I’ve been on loads of holidays in the U.K. which weren’t ‘city breaks’. Perhaps you should widen your horizons a bit.

People like convenience, a short walk to ice cream/burgers and a car park.
Have walked the coastal path on the Lizard (which is stunning) and Met hardly a soul, get to a cove with a car park and cafe and it’s rammed.
Same in snowdonia, snowdon is rammed and people parking on narrow roads while there are some stunning walks on lesser mountains with no train/cafe where you hardly see a soul .
people are generally lazy

[Griswold]

I booked our cruise last year, well before any mention of covid. £400 deposit. As the cruise company showed no signs of cancelling the cruise we were left with two alternatives - pay the remainder or cancel and lose the deposit.

Paying the remainder was a no no as, if the cruise went ahead, we were both in the high risk category and the risk of being stuck on a ship in the middle of a pandemic was unacceptable to us and at the point of paying the balance there was no guarantee that the company would cancel the cruise. So we cancelled the holiday and lost the deposit. £400 down the swanee, but better that than the alternative. Insurance certainly did not cover us!

Choose life.

We did ook, for all the right reasons.

[mmgg1988]

I’ve been on loads of holidays in the U.K. which weren’t ‘city breaks’. Perhaps you should widen your horizons a bit.

I think you might have misread the post, I have been on lots of non city break trips, including North Cornwall in July, Jersey last year (stretching UK a bit I realise) and was due to go to North Wales a few months ago but didn’t go due to lockdown. That is just the non city breaks in the U.K. in around the last 12 months.

My point was that in Oct-March/April UK breaks which are not city breaks are a lot less popular than going away at this time of year due to our variable weather. This may mean more people “take a risk” and go abroad.

I like to try and go away skiing when possible during the winter and with the exception of quite specific dates and conditions in certain parts of the U.K., that isn’t really possible here. Therefore I will have to assess the risk of that nearer the time.

[nickk]

If 50 people from 50 towns all go out and hit the crowded UK beaches/parks/pubs, or just go to work in the UK on public transport and become/already are asymptomatic with the virus, can you not see what the results would be?

Really? Why not? What's stopping them?

Precisely, thank you.

120 000 people in Blackburn, within an hour of the Lakes, Bowland, Peak District (a little further to the Cotswolds, fortunately), three major cities if they'd prefer a spot of shopping instead, and gosh, some of them even have cars, even here in the North. Add to that the populations of Oldham, Rotherham, Trafford, hmm, it is almost as if a whole pandemic is raging with little by way of intervention, restriction or lockdown while the government is busy knee-jerk flip-flopping (if that is physically possible) over Spain.

[oldoakknives]

We did ook, for all the right reasons.

Exactly.

[oldoakknives]

Precisely, thank you.

120 000 people in Blackburn, within an hour of the Lakes, Bowland, Peak District (a little further to the Cotswolds, fortunately), three major cities if they'd prefer a spot of shopping instead, and gosh, some of them even have cars, even here in the North. Add to that the populations of Oldham, Rotherham, Trafford, hmm, it is almost as if a whole pandemic is raging with little by way of intervention, restriction or lockdown while the government is busy knee-jerk flip-flopping (if that is physically possible) over Spain.

What do you suggest? A stricter lockdown in places like Blackburn, Leicester, Bradford perhaps?

You criticise measures put in place to try to stop the virus coming from abroad, what would you do?

[oldoakknives]

I think you might have misread the post, I have been on lots of non city break trips, including North Cornwall in July, Jersey last year (stretching UK a bit I realise) and was due to go to North Wales a few months ago but didn’t go due to lockdown. That is just the non city breaks in the U.K. in around the last 12 months.

My point was that in Oct-March/April UK breaks which are not city breaks are a lot less popular than going away at this time of year due to our variable weather. This may mean more people “take a risk” and go abroad.

I like to try and go away skiing when possible during the winter and with the exception of quite specific dates and conditions in certain parts of the U.K., that isn’t really possible here. Therefore I will have to assess the risk of that nearer the time.

Perhaps there is a reason people might be advised to change their behaviour somewhat. Now let me see, what could that possibly be............

[Jon Kenney]

Really?

Not if you're buying exact replacements.

You can also return things.

Yes, really.

You can take a chance on an exact replacement, but irrespective of brand the fit may be different.

In the assembly (stitching and lasting) process there can always be subtle changes, the main being the stobel stitching of the insole to the upper. If too tight or too loose, it can easily alter the fit.

Of course you can always return them, but to get the correct fit, it is always advisable to try on in store.

[nickk]

What do you suggest? A stricter lockdown in places like Blackburn, Leicester, Bradford perhaps?

You criticise measures put in place to try to stop the virus coming from abroad, what would you do?

Did I? Slightly odd, as I happen to think quarantining (or indeed banning outward travel in the first place) is quite sensible, albeit (I think we might agree) poorly managed by government; perhaps you can quote me?

I did say that measures to tackle returnees make no sense if you are not equally strict with UK hotspots (so yes, stricter. Blimey).

[ryanb741]

I think it's clear that the vaccine is now the only end game for Governments that chose the lockdown route.

They will continue to tinker with isolation, quarantine, local and even national lockdowns until it is available. It wouldn't surprise me now if they introduce quarantine requirements after a visit to designated areas within the UK.

The economy doesn't stand a chance and many thousands will die prematurely because of that, but they won't have Covid on their death certificate so what the heck they don't matter.

This survey is horribly fascinating:

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_resea...

The UK sample gave an average of 7% as the proportion of the population they believe have died from COVID so far.

100 times higher than the real figure of 0.07%.

We are the most worried about a second wave and the least worried about job losses. That is the legacy of the Govts 'behaviour change' approach coupled with the use of furlough to hide the initial economic impacts of lockdown, all combined with people on average being pretty thick and gullible.

[lewie]

Defiantly quiter in Greece than it was when I was kayaking last week of the coast here
Untitled by biglewie, on Flickr

[Tony]

I think it's clear that the vaccine is now the only end game for Governments that chose the lockdown route.

They will continue to tinker with isolation, quarantine, local and even national lockdowns until it is available. It wouldn't surprise me now if they introduce quarantine requirements after a visit to designated areas within the UK.

The economy doesn't stand a chance and many thousands will die prematurely because of that, but they won't have Covid on their death certificate so what the heck they don't matter.

This survey is horribly fascinating:

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_resea...

The UK sample gave an average of 7% as the proportion of the population they believe have died from COVID so far.

100 times higher than the real figure of 0.07%.

We are the most worried about a second wave and the least worried about job losses. That is the legacy of the Govts 'behaviour change' approach coupled with the use of furlough to hide the initial economic impacts of lockdown, all combined with people on average being pretty thick and gullible.

According to something I randomly came across on the internet, 94.7% of cranks with too much time on their hands will believe anything they read on the internet as long as it suits their pre-existing world view.

[Onelasttime]

I think you're doing really well Oakey. Keep it up old sport

Can’t believe people would want to go on holiday to areas where the virus is still active. It’s like they can’t wait to start spreading it about again.
On the other hand, perhaps I can believe it.

More irony I presume.
Going around dragging people about wouldn’t end well.
How did you know he wasn’t wearing a mask for medical reasons. Some people are excused?

Stunning.

According to the BBC news, the government acted too quickly. Makes a change from acted too slowly I suppose. 

And still people want to have their hols there regardless. And moan when they might have to isolate on return.

Point is if you let people go to Spain on their holidays, not all will want to sit and enjoy the views and go sightseeing. I suggest a high percentage will probably want to be whooping it up, at bars and nightclubs in certain resorts. Obviously the reason they have allowed nightclubs to open in the first place.

I doubt there is much thinking involved to be honest.

Not surprised given that it's Ryanair to be honest. Just the kind of thing I'd expect from them.

I though the government had stepped in quickly and decisively, to prevent the virus being brought back by those stupid enough to rush abroad at the first opportunity.

I agree. Dithering seldom brings positive results.

We've just emerged from a countrywide lockdown, attempting to contain and minimise the risk from a virus which can be deadly to some who get it. The economy has taken a big hit, and the government has spent billions keeping many people from real hardship.
So pardon me if I don't feel in the slightest sorry for people who rushed off abroad at the first opportunity without realising this was a possibility.
Did they not think there might be a possibility of a spike in numbers, which could even have resulted in being locked down where they travelled to?

Just went on holiday, why worry? An example of a holiday bringing back more than they expected.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nchester-visit

There is disparity between the two groups because there are differences between the groups.

One group has travelled abroad, the other hasn't.

One group can be isolated in an area if necessary, the other group will probably come from many different areas in the UK, hence the need for them to be quarantined where they return to.

If 50 people return from Spain who are asymptomatic with the virus, and return home to 50 different towns and mix with people there can you not see what the results would be? The others in UK hotspots probably wouldn't be travelling to different areas with the virus.

I’ve been on loads of holidays in the U.K. which weren’t ‘city breaks’. Perhaps you should widen your horizons a bit.

Yeah but, no but.....

Choose life.

Exactly.

What do you suggest? A stricter lockdown in places like Blackburn, Leicester, Bradford perhaps?

You criticise measures put in place to try to stop the virus coming from abroad, what would you do?

Perhaps there is a reason people might be advised to change their behaviour somewhat. Now let me see, what could that possibly be............

[MrSmith]

[QUOTE=ryanb741;5490973
The UK sample gave an average of 7% as the proportion of the population they believe have died from COVID so far.[/QUOTE]

4.5 million dead? I failed maths but even getting a decimal point in the wrong place you would have to be a bit naive to think it was that high!?

[oldoakknives]

I think you're doing really well Oakey. Keep it up old sport

I think you’re doing really well following me around the forum.

Apart from that I can't honestly see what your problem is.

[Scepticalist]

I think it's clear that the vaccine is now the only end game for Governments that chose the lockdown route.

They will continue to tinker with isolation, quarantine, local and even national lockdowns until it is available. It wouldn't surprise me now if they introduce quarantine requirements after a visit to designated areas within the UK.

The economy doesn't stand a chance and many thousands will die prematurely because of that, but they won't have Covid on their death certificate so what the heck they don't matter.

This survey is horribly fascinating:

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_resea...

The UK sample gave an average of 7% as the proportion of the population they believe have died from COVID so far.

100 times higher than the real figure of 0.07%.

We are the most worried about a second wave and the least worried about job losses. That is the legacy of the Govts 'behaviour change' approach coupled with the use of furlough to hide the initial economic impacts of lockdown, all combined with people on average being pretty thick and gullible.

I'm pretty much with Ryan here. Economic impact (and the inevitable consequential deaths added to deaths arising from lockdown measures themselves) going to far outweigh benefit of lockdown/quarantine but the government have made the bed and we're going to pay the price.

[Scepticalist]

I booked our cruise last year, well before any mention of covid. £400 deposit. As the cruise company showed no signs of cancelling the cruise we were left with two alternatives - pay the remainder or cancel and lose the deposit.

Paying the remainder was a no no as, if the cruise went ahead, we were both in the high risk category and the risk of being stuck on a ship in the middle of a pandemic was unacceptable to us and at the point of paying the balance there was no guarantee that the company would cancel the cruise. So we cancelled the holiday and lost the deposit. £400 down the swanee, but better that than the alternative. Insurance certainly did not cover us!

Well you cancelled, so obviously no, you won't be covered.

[Andyg]

Well you cancelled, so obviously no, you won't be covered.

Actually that might not be the case. We cancelled our holiday 3 days before the final payment (our choice), and today we had an email informing us that steps were being taken (by the agent) to recover the money. Emirates (the carrier) had already informed us we would get a credit note (to be used in the next 2 years) but money in the bank would be better. So all might not be lost.

[craig1912]

Actually that might not be the case. We cancelled our holiday 3 days before the final payment (our choice), and today we had an email informing us that steps were being taken (by the agent) to recover the money. Emirates (the carrier) had already informed us we would get a credit note (to be used in the next 2 years) but money in the bank would be better. So all might not be lost.

He was referring to insurance cover- it won’t be covered under insurance if you cancel and the trip/flight still goes ahead. Plenty are offering vouchers or credit or free changes.

[Griswold]

Well you cancelled, so obviously no, you won't be covered.

Indeed. We knew that when we made the choice.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Indeed. We knew that when we made the choice.

Could you have changed to a later date Peter thus not loosing any money?

[Griswold]

Could you have changed to a later date Peter thus not loosing any money?

Not really Chris as the cruise we were going on was being removed from their portfolio the following year. For us it was a simple risk assessment exercise - pay the balance, (circa £4,000), and hope that a) the cruise would be cancelled, and b) that the company was still in existence to get all our money back, (not covered by ATOL as no flights were involved - we were sailing from Newcastle), as opposed to paying the balance and finding the cruise was going ahead and having to decide to take the risk of going on it, (we're both in the high risk category so that would be a no no), or cancelling and loosing the lot! as opposed to biting the bullet, cancelling there and then and minimising our risk/loss to the deposit only.

This was very early on in the pandemic and it wasn't clear how any of the countries we would be visiting would fare. Also, the cruise company Marella were only forecasting/cancelling one month ahead and our cruise was 3 months away.

Given that, at the time, the greatest risk to us was that the cruise went ahead but we would choose not to go on it, we took the least risk option for us.

[Saint-Just]

Not really Chris as the cruise we were going on was being removed from their portfolio the following year. For us it was a simple risk assessment exercise - pay the balance, (circa £4,000), and hope that a) the cruise would be cancelled, and b) that the company was still in existence to get all our money back, (not covered by ATOL as no flights were involved - we were sailing from Newcastle), as opposed to paying the balance and finding the cruise was going ahead and having to decide to take the risk of going on it, (we're both in the high risk category so that would be a no no), or cancelling and loosing the lot! as opposed to biting the bullet, cancelling there and then and minimising our risk/loss to the deposit only.

This was very early on in the pandemic and it wasn't clear how any of the countries we would be visiting would fare. Also, the cruise company Marella were only forecasting/cancelling one month ahead and our cruise was 3 months away.

Given that, at the time, the greatest risk to us was that the cruise went ahead but we would choose not to go on it, we took the least risk option for us.

A perfectly logical and wise decision Peter.
It sounds though as you are a regular cruiser.
I would really be after them if only as a matter of principle, since they could not guarantee your safety if the cruise had gone ahead (examples are unfortunately rather plentiful).
They will know if you cruise regularly, with them or others; and they'll need their regulars if they want to survive the next few years, as they may not get that many newcomers. Especially if they are seen as shafting their customers (it also applies if you used a travel agent).

[Griswold]

A perfectly logical and wise decision Peter.
It sounds though as you are a regular cruiser.
I would really be after them if only as a matter of principle, since they could not guarantee your safety if the cruise had gone ahead (examples are unfortunately rather plentiful).
They will know if you cruise regularly, with them or others; and they'll need their regulars if they want to survive the next few years, as they may not get that many newcomers. Especially if they are seen as shafting their customers (it also applies if you used a travel agent).

Thanks SJ, good idea, nothing to lose. Yes we are regular cruisers with Marella and always pay for upgrades so that may make a difference, certainly worth a try as they are regularly emailing me with future offers etc - having said that, prices seem to be around 20% higher for next years holidays, both Marella cruises and TUI, (their parent company), for land based holidays - we've travelled with them regularly too.

[oldoakknives]

Not really Chris as the cruise we were going on was being removed from their portfolio the following year. For us it was a simple risk assessment exercise - pay the balance, (circa £4,000), and hope that a) the cruise would be cancelled, and b) that the company was still in existence to get all our money back, (not covered by ATOL as no flights were involved - we were sailing from Newcastle), as opposed to paying the balance and finding the cruise was going ahead and having to decide to take the risk of going on it, (we're both in the high risk category so that would be a no no), or cancelling and loosing the lot! as opposed to biting the bullet, cancelling there and then and minimising our risk/loss to the deposit only.

This was very early on in the pandemic and it wasn't clear how any of the countries we would be visiting would fare. Also, the cruise company Marella were only forecasting/cancelling one month ahead and our cruise was 3 months away.

Given that, at the time, the greatest risk to us was that the cruise went ahead but we would choose not to go on it, we took the least risk option for us.

We had a river cruise booked on the Rhone for May this year and had paid in full last year. So far we have had a credit note, but I'm thinking it would be wise to try to turn that back into cash (about 6k) as we probably won't want to be going on a cruise even if it's next year. We had a couple of others booked where we lost the deposits and didn't pay the balance, working on the principle we'd rather lose the small deposits than pay the balances of 4k and 5k and try to get it back later if we had to. I think taking the smaller hit is a wise move.

[bwest76]

Bit of a thread hijack (sorry) but can any locals to Bourton-on-the-water tell me how busy it is these days please?
My wife has worked constantly throughout this pandemic and wasn’t allowed any time off because most of her department had been furloughed and they needed her in so she’s very much looking forward to a nice day out.
She has booked Thursday off work and wants to go to Bourton.
Is it very busy there or are numbers way down on normal? We went October last year and loved it there.

A bit late but this is the latest news.





Fyi. To anyone attempting to get into my village, you have no chance. My street is packed with cars not wanting to pay £3 for a days parking. I doubt once I've done my shopping I'll be able to park on my street. I expect all social distancing rules to go out the window.

[Griswold]

We had a river cruise booked on the Rhone for May this year and had paid in full last year. So far we have had a credit note, but I'm thinking it would be wise to try to turn that back into cash (about 6k) as we probably won't want to be going on a cruise even if it's next year. We had a couple of others booked where we lost the deposits and didn't pay the balance, working on the principle we'd rather lose the small deposits than pay the balances of 4k and 5k and try to get it back later if we had to. I think taking the smaller hit is a wise move.

Absolutely ook, that's the view Lynn and I took. We know of people who are now unable to get insurance to cover any future cruise bookings due to their age/medical conditions. It looks doubtful if we will cruise again in the near future!

[jaytip]

A bit late but this is the latest news.





Fyi. To anyone attempting to get into my village, you have no chance. My street is packed with cars not wanting to pay £3 for a days parking. I doubt once I've done my shopping I'll be able to park on my street. I expect all social distancing rules to go out the window.

We drove through Bourton and didn’t bother stopping. It was rammed. The greens on the side of the river were full with people picnicking. Zero social distancing going on.
We drove on to Bibury instead which was much quieter.
Thanks anyway.

[bwest76]

Yes Bibury is also nice,I hope you found some peace.

I have places out off the way and people in the Cotswold I visit.

[oldoakknives]

Absolutely ook, that's the view Lynn and I took. We know of people who are now unable to get insurance to cover any future cruise bookings due to their age/medical conditions. It looks doubtful if we will cruise again in the near future!

Nor us I'm afraid. We did two cruises on the Rhine, one incorporating the Dutch bulbfields, and another mainly in Germany which was spectacular for views in the gorges. A shame because we really enjoyed both. Without a proven vaccine I doubt we'll do another.

[snowman]

4.5 million dead? I failed maths but even getting a decimal point in the wrong place you would have to be a bit naive to think it was that high!?

You think a huge majority of people aren't?

The media has portrayed this a new Black Death from the outset, so it's no great surprise that anyone not interested enough to do some investigation (or just thinking) would happily believe such a high number.

M

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using Tapatalk