Reply With QuoteWill you have EU citizenships after 31 December 2020?
Hello all
Firstly apologies as I know we are a UK forum, but this has been playing on my mind a lot since Covid-19 seemed to halt play and put a massive spanner in the works. Like many of us my wife and I have struggled a lot during recent months. We have often thought about a move abroad but now seem closer than ever to make the step.
We are in the early stages, I’ve been doing some man maths and have a video meeting booked with a financial advisor later this week. The wife and I could not have children so we are in the financially enviable position with regard to owning a reasonable 4 bed detached house and BTL 1 bed flat in the City of Chelmsford. As we’ve no kids we’ll be looking to deplete assets (a calculated risk I know), but we’ll have a pretty decent inheritance most likely on both sides in the not too distant future and I’ll also have 25 years service in a Local Government Pension Scheme.
But here is where the infinite wisdom of TZ will help no doubt. If you’ve made the move or even bought in Spain what should we be looking at, what are the pitfalls to avoid, what are your top tips? Please feel free to impart pros & cons.
We’ve seen a great looking bungalow about 10 minutes from the Costa Blanca coast. It’s semi-rural so is on solar/battery electricity; which I do not see as an issue for us, has A/C, water via a Well & pump, cess pit foul waste. 5 minutes from local village.
It will be an escape for us both; we may well still work if we can, my wife’s business as a Pilates Instructor has transitioned nicely to being fully online but could easily operate in Spain, I too teach Pilates as an aside to being a full time Surveyor/Project Manager. It will be about a less stressful way of life; obviously a steep learning curve presenting new stresses, but work and money should become less of an issue abroad.
Thanks for any help.
Will you have EU citizenships after 31 December 2020?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Do nothing until we have some sort of transitionary agreement with Spain.
Also and this is bloody important, you have to be fluent in Spanish if you want to work or run a business as your past experience and skills will count for nothing in Spain.
I have a friend in IT who works from his Spanish home for a UK company and he is doing OK but is permanently on edge about being made redundant as he would be unemployable over here. Also although the cost of living is cheaper here, the wages are abysmal.
If I had to sum it up, Spain is a damn good place to retire but a bloody awful place to work.
Finally, rent your UK house out and then rent a place in Spain and that will be very profitable in itself. Loads of Expats do that and it is a life saver, not only does it provide an income, you got a bolthole to run back to.
From my own personal experience (lived there 2006-2008), I’m in total agreement with Mick.
Don’t expect to work in the Spanish system. It’s highly unlikely that you’ll find a job. If you do, it will pay peanuts. I know many Expat families where the husband was back working in the UK and visiting a couple of weekends a month.
If your online Pilates is UK centric and you can retain your customers then that’s doable.
I set up an off road motorcycle holiday business, bringing mist of my customers out from the UK.
Again, as Mick says, if you can keep your UK assets then you should be able to return to the UK easier if it doesn’t work out for whatever reason. We returned after two years for reasons that were completely unimaginable when we first moved over there. Fortunately, although it cost us a substantial sum, we weren’t left destitute (although cash flow got a little worrying for a time).
How old are you
Be cautious about expecting any inheritance. I’m current managing my father in laws care and the £1300 per week is doing a good job of consuming his life savings. You don’t know how things will pan out for your parents. Best to plan based on zero inheritance.
It is very unlikely that any house you purchase in Spain will appreciate at anything like property prices in the UK. If you have any idea at all that you will come back to the UK then as above, keep some form of property here else you may find your choices limited when you decide to come back.
On top of this, remember that any income you get from your UK property/assets WILL be taxable in Spain. In fact there are many difference between Spain and UK tax regimes and taxation also varies by region in Spain (e.g. in Catalonia unless you specify otherwise children automatically inherit, not spouse and any money you "give" to your spouse can be taxable, not free as it is here), so get some very good advice before you start moving large sums around or making yourself tax-resident.
I know almost nobody who has made money on property out here, and several who've lost some, that said you can still find great property at a fraction of what you'd have to spend in Blighty on something comparable but as always caveat emptor and get yourself good, independent legal, financial, and tax advice. To echo Mick and others don't burn your bridges so keep a property to return to until you're sure you've settled/just in case. Build quality can be somewhat variable so again do your due diligence and ensure the property has all the correct documents, though your abogado/lawyer should be doing this. Yes you will have to submit taxes here but that's always the way isn't it, fwiw our lawyer/acct just submitted ours and without getting into specifics turns out in our case to be no more onerous than in GB.
Good luck it's a great place to live/ retire IF you've the right mindset and can appreciate a place on it's own terms, aren't looking for England in the Sun, though that does exist but it's not really likely to be sustainable, won't ingratiate you particularly with the locals.
'Living and Working in Spain' by David Hampshire is a bit of a bible on the subject, been publishing since 1995 with many new editions, worth getting a copy I'd suggest.
Last edited by Passenger; 13th July 2020 at 11:54.
I read some article written by a real estate expert who said that it is not high time to buy property just because of the crisis coming. I highly recommend you to have a look at this article https://virtoproperty.com/info/prope...y-or-sell-2020 to get a better understanding of what is going on on the real estate market in Spain. Coronavirus has affected it greatly!
Last edited by Owren; 24th August 2020 at 11:37. Reason: additional info
What is the Spanish position on non EU immigrants?
The Spanish hate black non EU Africans with a vengeance, they control the immigration and the local farm workers get paid about €4 to do back breaking work on farms in hot temperatures. Spanish construction workers are not allowed to work during August because of the heat but the black farm workers are still in the fields bent over in 35 degrees picking produce with no rights at all. The UK is Spains biggest food market and your supermarket lettuce and strawberries are cheap because of this.Originally Posted by Kevin
No one knows the Brit situation yet until 1st Jan 2021 when the transition agreement runs out. The good news is that the Spanish like us because we spend lots of money, so the chances are we will get a decent deal but nothing is ever guaranteed. The biggest bombshell is whether health care is maintained. If the Spanish deny Brits medical treatment, the tourist industries will be severely hit as medical insurance will push up the cost of a holiday by a large margin, so expectations are that some sort of deal will be quickly done.
The biggest threat will be an expected heavy tax when a non EU citizen sells their properties. The expected figure is the pre EU tax on profits of 35%.
Brexit is not good for anyone working or retiring out here.
and broccoli, they grow tons of it too for export...mildly amusing to serve it to them and see the surprise on their faces, they can't identify it, never eaten it before.
What’s the current situation for non EU citizens in that scenario? That surely will be the default position.
Cheers..
Jase
No one really knows but up until a few years ago, Brits were taxed at 35% even though EU law said it should be 17.5%. The taxes were challenged in court and the Spanish government was compelled to refund the Brits who over paid.
The tax was popular with the average Spaniard because they feel bitter that elderly expats got hospital treatment even though they never paid into the Spanish health system. So reintroducing it will be a vote winner.
Thanks Mick.
Cheers..
Jase
Rent out your main house in UK, pay income tax on the profits, and use the remainder to rent in Spain.
So many people sell up and leave the UK housing market, only to try and return in later years, and end up not being able to sell the house in Spain/France and end up in a tiny flat in a crap neighbourhood in UK.
I had a frank discussion with a couple who we used to holiday rent from in France, who were returning to UK despite getting superlative medical treatment in France.
So - if the treatment is so good - why do people return to UK?
”They go home to die” (or at least - when they perceive they might only have another 5+yrs)
The tax position will be dependant on how many days you spend in Spain. If you spend more that 180 days in a calendar year in Spain then all your worldwide income is lumped into one and you pay Spanish tax on the lot.
I spend less than 180 days in Spain so I am classified as a tourist and I pay all income taxes etc in to the UK system. I pay the equivalent of community tax to Spain because I have a house and of course I pay VAT on every purchase I make.
How rural is semi-rural? Not specific to Spain but I know a number of couples who retired to rural homes. Loved it initially but then suffered due to the isolation, especially as they got older. Things like dependance on cars, difficult integrating with local community, distance from family etc.
Spanish income tax is really only marginally worse than paying it in the UK. It just depends on your age/income and dependents etc. Other expenditure such as "council tax" etc tend to be way cheaper. Certainly not worth uprooting your life to try and spend "only" 180 days in either country. If that's convenient for you then fine, but it shouldn't stop you if you want to spend all your time there.
Tax on property/capital gains and inheritance law however are all minefields and worth employing a good advisor to look at.
Last edited by Scepticalist; 13th August 2020 at 19:03.
365 is the new 180. At least in 2020.
Posting Permissions