Reply With Quote.....
I’m going through a bit of a rationalisation phase at the moment, and realised some time ago that I have more hi-fi in the house than I know what to do with. For example, in the bedroom I have an Arcam Solo Neo paired up with Acoustic Energy Aesprit 300 speakers on Atacama Nexus stands, and it sounds really nice. However, I never use it and if I did want music upstairs I have a Bose Soundlink Mini that I could stream to and, in reality, it would be perfectly sufficient.
I’m therefore thinking that I might move the Arcam/AE combo downstairs and sell the system that’s down there at the moment. This comprises the following, with the prices I paid for everything when (about 15 years ago) I bought it - after some listening tests against various other combinations of kit - from Sevenoaks Sound and Vision:
Arcam DiVA A80 amplifier (£600)
Arcam DiVA CD82 CD player (£600)
KEF Q4 maple f/s speakers (£400)
MA Pureflow biwire cable (£100)
Airloc banana plugs (£50)
It really is a lovely, balanced system but it also offers plenty of grunt when wanted. It’s all in very good condition (the speakers have some light marks, but that’s only to be expected) and I think I have all the boxes and manuals in the loft somewhere. I suppose I’m after some advice in two respects:
1) Am I out of my mind?
2) What could I expect to sell everything for (I’m thinking £750 would be a good price but stand to be corrected by anyone genuinely in the know)?
Grateful for any help/comments/steers from the TZ massive.
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Last edited by blackie; 11th July 2020 at 20:53.
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Last edited by blackie; 11th July 2020 at 20:52.
As good as the neo is, it won't be as good as the other system. You have 2x75 wpc with the neo and will sound decent through the KEFQ4's/ AE with enough power on tap.
Regarding pricing s/h £650-£750.00 is reasonable.
Listen to both pairs of speakers downstairs and sell one or the other after a comparison.
I was hoping you'd chip in, Rod, thank you, and good to know I was there or thereabouts on pricing. Excellent idea regarding a comparison test with the speakers, too.Originally Posted by Rod
How do you rate the system downstairs, as a matter of interest, and do you think I'm daft in potentially letting it go?
If you take time to sit & listen to arrive tunes Mr A then I would keep the system downstairs. If you don't, then it needs to go & moving the system from upstairs is the way to go.
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I seem to stream a lot these days and probably pay less attention to the absolute quality of reproduction compared to 20 years ago. That said, it's not that it doesn't matter - it certainly does - but perhaps I'm a little less... fastidious about it.
I don't know, really - the Neo is a great system and I'd quite like to declutter the bedroom. (I suppose the other option would be to keep the gear that I have downstairs and sell the Neo + AEs, but for some reason I fancy the full desize!).
I have just sold a similar system to yours arcam a80:p80 power amp cd 192 arcam digital tuner linn axis turntable & b&w cm4 speakers got £1100 for it I didn’t have very much Interest in it and was glad when someone came and bought the whole lot and took it away
The downstairs system is pretty high quality, but there's an element of 'how much serious listening do I do? .... Do I want all this gear and consolidate it with the Arcam Neo, thus saving some space?
The other option is to bring the AE's downstairs and try the main system and compare with the Q4's, again you may want to move the Neo on with the Q4's.
Speaking for myself, I'd keep the downstairs system, A) It more than likely has the better sound quality, B) It's modular so can be upgraded more easily being separate components in the future. The Neo if it develops a serious fault and a costly repair means the whole lot goes.
Your shout Tony!
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Last edited by blackie; 11th July 2020 at 20:52.
Sorry ill butt out. Id sell it if you are not using it.
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Tony
Can't help you decide which system to keep but you are right with the Bose Soundlink Mini being suitable 90% of the time as that is all i now use in the bedroom for streaming and free's up so much space.
Don't take this the wrong way, but the Diva kit was pretty low in the Arcam food-chain, and is not overly sought-after now, so you will do well to make the money you anticipate IMO. I can understand why you'd want to shift the second system but the Solo kit won't sound quite as good as the main system, and will not really free-up all that much space in the grand scheme of things. It is avowedly a little more flexible if it's the model with DAC etc - but will you use that?
Well worth seeing which pair of speakers you like best, but I'd hang-on to the main system were it me - there's a good chance you'll not fancy paying out for the modern equivalent if you find yourself missing it a few months or years down the road.
Personally (and FWVLIW) I have a fondness for proper old school one-box CDPs, too. If you've kept a collection of CDs they're well worth having, as the fairly basic laser units are relatively easily replaced - it'll be something like a Philips VAM1202 which will probably be the last such pickup made and widely available. The time will come that CDs are impossible to play any other way, and there will be music on that medium that simply doesn't exist elsewhere.
I had it on here and eBay and I finally sold it on Facebook I could have got more if I waited and sold it in bits but it was worth it to get rid of the whole lot I had a nasty experience selling a sound bar on ebay which got smashed by a courier so I didn't trust posting it bit by bit plus I think a lot of people are avoiding non essensetial spending at the moment so I was happy that someone wanted the whole lot.
Noted, thanks. More to think about, although I have to say that the stuff I bought was very well reviewed and was certainly considered good bang for buck compared to a lot of competitor gear.
Oh, and also FWVLIW (I had to look that up!), I have about 300 CDs and can’t bring myself to upload and get rid of them. I didn’t consider that they’d soon be yet another anachronism but I guess you may be right!
Rest assured I'm not knocking the Arcam gear - it's stupidly underrated for the quality you get, and for all I know it's the latest hifi fad (one of many minefields I no longer approach).
With you with the CDs - I'm of that certain age where there's still much appeal to listening to albums as the artist intended, rather than the music-as-anaesthesia approach of the randomised infinite playlist + headphones of the smartphonistas...
CD today is right where vinyl was in the '90s. Unlike vinyl, I'm not sure it'll ever have the revival that vinyl has, as there's no technical benefit versus streamed music provided equivalent data rates are available, plus long-term availability of pickup lasers will eventually be a problem, as they are already hopelessly obsolete and unlike phono cartridges are not something that a clever chap with a microscope and some microengineering skills can knock-up in a shed... CD's saving grace is the wide availability of music not available anywhere else. I suppose a nostalgia market will kick-in at some point soon too - that sustains all sorts - even hilariously anachronistic mechanical wristwatches (or so I'm told...).
Hifi is like watches, most people use what is ok and a small minority will move heaven and earth to buy the best stuff going.
Run of the mill CD players are now basically worthless but there will alway be a market for the top end and Naim are a good example of this.
Last week a 40 yr old Nait 2 amplifier fetched over £900 on ebay. This is their basic model.
You can't give most speakers away buy the good ones such as Tannoys, Shahinians and ATCs are alway in demand.
Buy a Naim CD player and you will not lose out.
A Naim CD player won't last forever and at some stage in it's life the laser will weaken and finally give up, and in that respect is no better than an Arcam.... all tend to use Philips mechs.
The Arcam kit Tony has isn't Arcam's low end kit at all and in it's time was well respected. I went on enough courses and listening tests with them down in Waterbeach to evaluate the kit.
Amplification has moved on but in different ways, but at the end of the day is very subjective, eg class D, G, etc but all have their pitfalls one way or another.
Yes I agree with all of what you say. I have a Naim CDS3 in my main system and a CDX in the dining room. Both are good CD players and both seem to be holding their price. I agree that one day we will run out of lasers but as usual, someone will step in to fill that market. I would certainly pay over the odds to get both of my CD players repaired because they produce a good sound.
The main weakness in my argument, however, is that most of those who are prepared to pay out for top end Hifi are of the boomer generation and we won't be around for much longer. What was once considered a valuable piece of equipment will be quickly regarded as junk by the younger generations.
I have loads of cds still that’s why I bought the half decent Yamaha all in one all the audiophile makes such as arcam Or linn don’t do ones with integrated cds anymore I was looking at the arcam solos but it looks like it’s only the original one that has the cd
Yes that is true but you still need a source and the best sound is still either vinyl or CD with amplifiers and speakers which are far to big for young people who live in smallish houses.... To be replaced by a set of headphones
I have a pair on wifi speakers (Kef LSX) out here in Spain. They are OK but no way do they replicate or communicate music like the traditional Hifi system.
Tony - I was in a similar position a few years back. I grasped the nettle and had one of my sons Magpie all the CD’s - got rid of my Arcam and B&O systems. Replaced with a Naim Muso in the main room and a Muso cube in the bedroom.
Suspect you don’t listen to music as you used to and these ‘lifestyle’ systems from Naim proved a good compromise for me - pretty decent sound, no clutter or wires and no CD’s.
If you sit down for a few hours a week and actually listen to classical music or jazz as an event ie not background music then perhaps stick with what you have.
Otherwise a rationalisation like I did is rather liberating. PS I’ve got Patti Labelle on the Muso via Spotify as I type this.
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This is my dilemma. I’ve been looking at some high end speakers and an all in one box streamer. finally narrowed it down but it’s working out at £5k. I really don’t listen to much music apart from the radio. I do have the odd day at the weekend of playing music / albums but am wondering if it’s better just to pick up a Muso or similar and save a boat load of cash
I’ve been really pleased with the Muso - and my lads now 25/23/20 all think it’s a great/cool bit of kit - whilst they’ve all been home during lockdown they’ve used it a lot and we’ve done workouts in the garden with it on in the house loud enough to pi$$ the neighbours off
The radio app is excellent
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Don't agree with this at all. There is a huge resurgence in vinyl and hifi amongst the younger generation currently . One of my teenage daughters has been collecting vinyl for the last 2 years.
The issue that they face is that being financially unable to make the leap on the property ladder they may never own a property where they can justify a full blown hifi system. Why would you shell out a couple of grand or even just £500 for a system that you can never have louder than the first two notches? I had a 10k arcam based home cinema room that was tweaked to being better than a professional screening room at one point. As soon as I started travelling internationally for work I moved to a pair of shure se535s for serious listening and bluetooth UE megaboom setup for social listening.
Nothing beats having a proper 2 speaker stereo setup for listening. However I do question if people really do have the space for these large systems - I still have an older Denon CD/amp combo (RCD N7) with a couple of monitor audio bx2s which are still fantastic for living room spaces in the UK - power wise more than sufficient.
On CDs - I still have a lot, I do like CDs and owning the music so if I find older bargains/discounts I still buy. But you cannot deny reality of streaming, however you can easily adapt older systems (actually my Denon was a forerunner in terms of streaming, though it's a bit crap for that now).
I suspect the Neo may be enough LTF, might as well sell the stuff you don't need. If you want some modern streaming capabilities, then look at adding something like Bluesound Node 2i which also has a decent DAC.
However I do find myself listening more on my headphones nowadays - I have a pretty decent setup with a pair of Sony XBA-Z5s with a Fiio M11 streaming Tidal mostly. I did spend a few days a couple of years back ripping my CD collection to FLAC which I think was a good idea. The portable setup cost more than my full setup...
I think you are totally wrong, ask a high end hifi shop manager what age group most of their customers are and there not going to say old people I promise you
The resurgence in vinyl is mainly a millennial myth. They buy a cheap TT / amplifier and then play a good record on it. I don't have the figures to hand, but there are more downloads in a day than what records are sold in a year. The collecting of vinyl is really what it is all about and hence it is rarely ever played.
Millennials tend to live in small houses and Hifi soaks up space that is only suitable for bigger houses.
The only good news is that if your house gets burgled, the scrotes never take the Hifi because they don't even know what it is.
First point is that most high end Hifi shops have gone the way of the Dodo. I paid a small fortune for my main system and that was nothing unusual back in the nineties.
Today a Millennial walks into a shop and probably buys an all in one TT with a pre set cartridge and its usually sub £1k. They will then spend as much on the records which are regarded as minor works of art.
Alternatively it can be something like a Muso which is around £1.5k.
They don't sell many beefy amplifiers and large speakers anymore.
Your own observations would seem to contradict your opening sentence don't you think? They most definitely are buying vinyl and listening to it regardless of their kit level.
My daughter was able to use my setup for years but had little interest beyond watching the occasional film. Cut forwards a few years and I'm buying her "Rumours" and "The Dark Side of the Moon" on vinyl as Christmas presents.
(Neither of which I've ever owned as vinyl myself by the way)
I know what you mean about hi fi shops the nearest city to me used to have 3 proper hi fi shops now its only richer sounds the town I used to live in had 2 hi fi shops one a proper high end one naim ect the other one sold decent stuff arcam Misson ect, the high end one went at least 10 years ago and the other has about 2 bits of hi fi and now sell mostly fridges cookers and washing machines
Yes but the increase in TT sales cannot really be described as a resurgence, most of it is low level. The vinyl is good but the pride of ownership is more with the records and not the TT.
I have a Garrard 401 with a Loricraft plinth and PSU, a Naim Aro arm and a Dynavector cartridge. Most of this was made in the UK and it sounds sublime. I am currently stuck out in Spain thanks to 3 cancelled flights and I have my Granddaughter and her boyfriend staying in my UK house, for security reasons, whilst they are on their University break. They go nuts about my system but both agree it sounds in a different league to the TT's of their mates. However, they have no intention to buy a TT as it is still a niche market.
I`m still a traditional hi-fi fan, I`m not interested in streaming.
I have a large collection of CDs and a modest vinyl collection, much of the vinyl was lost during 'domestic realignment' in the mid-90s. As my interest in vinyl has only been rekindled over the past 2 years, when the vinyl collection was dusted down and dug out of storage I was v. disappointed to find how much good stuff wasn`t there. Much as I enjoy the sound quality of vinyl I don`t get chance to listen often, but like the watches I own but hardly wear I enjoy knowing it's there.
I would never move away from traditional hi-fi, with a pair of nice floor-standing speakers in my lounge and a nice light oak unit in the corner housing two amplifiers and a CD player, topped off by a late 80s Thorens turntable with dark mahogany base. I don`t care what anyone says about it being old hat, I have a main system in my lounge and a second system serving my dining room and a largish kitchen, its all hard-wired with traditional speakers. I enjoy listening to music properly whilst cooking, my second system is still powerful enough to blow the walls down and the effect it creates in the kitchen is impressive (think small disco). Sadly, owing to deteriorating knees, my dancing days are behind me; Northern Soul and beer whilst preparing a curry was a staple Saturday evening pleasure guaranteed to get the old legs moving. L-shaped kitchen doubles up nicely as a dance-floor!
My workroom, where I spend most of my listening time, has an Arcam amp and Cd player hooked up to bookshelf speakers mounted in the corners on brackets, all very 80s-looking.
Looks like I`ll be moving house soon (deal's been on and off all year) so the kitchen/dance floor will be a memory..........but the hi-fi systems will reappear at some point in the new gaff. Mrs Walker knows this is not negotiable.
Mick, that's an impressive set-up, weakest component is probably your old lugs buddy
Agree with most of the points you've raised. The vinyl revival strikes me as ironic, the typical millenials who are drawn to it aren`t experiencing great sound quality because they're not listening on good enough equipment, but hopefully it'll get them interested in hi-fi and provide a shot in the arm for what is becoming very much a minority industry fuelled by oldies like us.
I’m using a pair of proac speakers on stands at the moment, last time we were in the local hi Fi dealer I pointed to a nice pair of floorstanders that were demo ing, she retorted “they're far too big”, same footprint as the current stands but no go. Logic and the female, no sir, I got my Moon cd and amp cause she liked the blue power lamp better than the other kit we tried, although I thought they sounded better anyway.
Sorry wandered off OP’s topic.
Last edited by Pitfitter; 15th July 2020 at 15:02.
ClassicI’m using a pair of proac speakers on stands at the moment, last time we were in the local hi Fi dealer I pointed to a nice pair of floorstanders that were demo ing, she retorted “they're far too big”, same footprint as the current stands but no go. Logic and the female, no sir, I got my Moon cd and amp cause she liked the blue power lamp better than the other kit we tried, although I thought ithey sounded better anyway.
Sorry wandered off OP’s topic.
I don’t know why many women have an aversion to floorstanding speakers, providing they blend in with the furniture I can’t see a problem........but I’m male.
I think there’s a serious shortage of compact floorstanders on the market. Most new/ modern houses have small rooms which are no good for many of the speakers on the market. Castle made some nice compact floorstanders back in the 90s that were designed for smaller rooms but unfortunately the sound quality was compromised, I have a pair in my dining room.
Try PMCs. Perfect modern, small and compact floorstanders.
I love the Moon “lights“ from my phonostage, headphone amp and 600i v2. Cost more than a Patek, but hey.Classic
Just picked my chin off the floor. There's almost nothing else on the market nowadays - like ruddy toothpicks a lot of 'em!
One problem with modern loudspeakers is the same as with modern cars: journalists. Most of them are chock full of ****, spout half-understood, jargonised gibberish, and tend to push manufacturers in directions that are not in the interests of real-world consumers, notably the "numbers game" of treating everything like a Top Trumps game.
A bigger problem is the death of bricks'n'mortar retail. Consumers online buy with their eyes - and having taken-onboard the journalists' nonsense will then buy whatever their mummy... er... wife will let them have, without ever having heard it at-all, never mind at home with the intended partnering equipment. Not surprisingly disappointment follows...
Quite large floorstanders can work well in surprisingly small rooms provided they have been properly designed for the job - e.g. room integration is massively easier if you port them at the front rather than the back. Dandy, but a chorus of wives and journalists will condemn them for being ugly, and/or not achieving an anechoic 20Hz, never mind the fact that 99% of all music has nothing of value below 55Hz...
Agree that it's a pity there's domestic prejudice against floorstanders - irrational, because most of them occupy less space than bookshelf speakers on stands...
Wife’s part of the reason I got rid of mine b&w floor standers were too big and the colour didn’t fit in with the new furnishings and the black hi fi seemed to attract dustJust picked my chin off the floor. There's almost nothing else on the market nowadays - like ruddy toothpicks a lot of 'em!
One problem with modern loudspeakers is the same as with modern cars: journalists. Most of them are chock full of ****, spout half-understood, jargonised gibberish, and tend to push manufacturers in directions that are not in the interests of real-world consumers, notably the "numbers game" of treating everything like a Top Trumps game.
A bigger problem is the death of bricks'n'mortar retail. Consumers online buy with their eyes - and having taken-onboard the journalists' nonsense will then buy whatever their mummy... er... wife will let them have, without ever having heard it at-all, never mind at home with the intended partnering equipment. Not surprisingly disappointment follows...
Quite large floorstanders can work well in surprisingly small rooms provided they have been properly designed for the job - e.g. room integration is massively easier if you port them at the front rather than the back. Dandy, but a chorus of wives and journalists will condemn them for being ugly, and/or not achieving an anechoic 20Hz, never mind the fact that 99% of all music has nothing of value below 55Hz...
Agree that it's a pity there's domestic prejudice against floorstanders - irrational, because most of them occupy less space than bookshelf speakers on stands...
My tuppenceworth in case it helps!
I was in a similar situation as you, love music, and had more than one system with loads of CDs. In the end I;
- Sold my separates (and floorstanders*)
- Ripped all my CDs to FLAC files, and boxed the CDs up in the attic
- Bought a Naim Uniti Star to replace my separates
- Happy days
I can still play CDs whenever I like as the Star has a CD transport, but can play my FLAC files, and also stream (Qobuz, Tidal etc) or cast (Spotify, chromecast, airplay) as well as online radio, podcasts etc.
I've never looked back, and very happy with the rationalisation - sounds fantastic, compact and looks good, very easy to use. Also have a SONOS speaker in the kitchen, and it too can work as a Roon endpoint for my former CDs, but also Airplay, Spotify, podcasts etc. It's more than enough when cooking, and work very well for the size.
(*) that wasn't really a part of the rationalisation, just wanted to return to a pair of speakers I owned years before that I loved the character of. They just happened to be smaller.
Sevenoaks are still a stand-out retailer - the gear I'm thinking about selling was all bought in their Swiss Cottage branch all those years ago. Proper listening room and they spent a good half-day setting up various combinations of kit based on my listening preferences. Agree with you about floorstanders - definitely a neater and better-looking option, aside from any technical advantages they might provide.Just picked my chin off the floor. There's almost nothing else on the market nowadays - like ruddy toothpicks a lot of 'em!
One problem with modern loudspeakers is the same as with modern cars: journalists. Most of them are chock full of ****, spout half-understood, jargonised gibberish, and tend to push manufacturers in directions that are not in the interests of real-world consumers, notably the "numbers game" of treating everything like a Top Trumps game.
A bigger problem is the death of bricks'n'mortar retail. Consumers online buy with their eyes - and having taken-onboard the journalists' nonsense will then buy whatever their mummy... er... wife will let them have, without ever having heard it at-all, never mind at home with the intended partnering equipment. Not surprisingly disappointment follows...
Quite large floorstanders can work well in surprisingly small rooms provided they have been properly designed for the job - e.g. room integration is massively easier if you port them at the front rather than the back. Dandy, but a chorus of wives and journalists will condemn them for being ugly, and/or not achieving an anechoic 20Hz, never mind the fact that 99% of all music has nothing of value below 55Hz...
Agree that it's a pity there's domestic prejudice against floorstanders - irrational, because most of them occupy less space than bookshelf speakers on stands...
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