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Thread: Seiko. What are they not doing right?

  1. #1
    Master j111dja's Avatar
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    Seiko. What are they not doing right?

    A few of the forum members will know about my love for Seiko's. It has been 43 years since I bought my first watch, and it was a 70's Seiko 5. I actually gave that watch to my father to wear and enjoy when I got in to the 6309 and 7548 diver's models way back in the late 70's and 80's.

    Seiko are doing a lot right. Right now, I want to concentrate on what they are doing wrong.

    I own several Seiko's at present. My favourite (or let's just say, the one I wear the most these days out if choice) is a modified PADI Turtle, but I'm not happy with Seiko at present. Not happy at all. This is not a rant about prices. It is though a rant about quality control at their price point.

    I recently responded to a post on the new £1200 Willard. Some details of that response are reiterated here. I just feel that the QC issues plaguing Seiko's at present deserves a thread on its own.

    Most know about the issues with the modern Turtles. They were plagued with misaligned chapter rings and misaligned bezels. We all know that, and I have lost count as to how many Turtles I've had to realign bezels and chapter rings on since their first production run. The reason for the misaligned chapter rings was simple. Poor QC. That's a watch at less than £450.

    You would expect Seiko to sort QC issues out on a new model like for example, their £1200 Willard on bracelet, but no. Feedback so far is not great, what with misaligned bezel inserts and misaligned hands. It's the minority but it's not good enough.

    There has been a huge surge in Seiko powered homage dive watches at present. I own several. Based on my experience, they appear to run more accurately, have better detail and have better quality crown assemblies and are less than £350. Some are less than £160! That's when compared to a modern Turtle. For example, WR Watches out of China released a range of Seiko 6105 homage watches with the Seiko 4R35 movement. I bought the Retangula 6105 homage with grey dial. When it arrived a week or two ago, I was shocked at how well made it was at around £150. I received several PM's about it after a few photo's were added to a new arrivals thread, and it certainly got some forum members Googling. Their words, not mine.

    Seiko need to get their act together, and soon.

    It appears that Spencer Klein's recent (and very honest) YouTube video on the Retangula 6105 homage is spot on:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NkfSd1FuXVo&t=51s
    Last edited by j111dja; 8th July 2020 at 00:37.

  2. #2
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Seiko are resting on their laurels. They appear busy because they're churning out watch after watch after watch but really they're just rehashing the same recipes with varying degrees of success.

    I like Seiko, I really do, I've had dozens of them and I still have the orange Monster that pulled me into all this watch nonsense but over the past few years, prices have gone up and up and quality has hovered around the mediocre. Yeah, they're good, but they're not great, not as great as they think they are.

    Are they still a value proposition? Yeah, maybe, if you're comparing them to Swiss brands, but for me they no longer represent the value they did.

    The brand feels muddled to me right now too. I used to love that they had every base covered from £50 to several thousand, but now it's a new variant of every model every bloody week, it's just overwhelming. I can only come to the conclusion that this is related to the QC issues.

    So, they're not cheap anymore, they're not better than their competitors and the range is just too big. Apart from that, everything is rosy.

  3. #3
    Once thing they're definitely not doing is QC. Bezel alignment has been an issue for years and now lume pip positioning seems to be an additional issue. They could also do with better packaging and if they're going that far half decent photos on the website wouldn't go amiss.

  4. #4
    Master
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    Most of my Seikos are vintage and I wouldn't part with any of them. However, do have three newish SKX models and there are no QC isues at all. Another bonus is they are all incredibly accurate and put my more expensive watches to shame. Sounds like Ive been very lucky.

  5. #5
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    I have upwards of 20 Seikos with no QC issues to date.

    Dumb luck? Or not buying from grey dealers, drop-shippers, and other people's 2nd hand problems?

  6. #6
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    None of my Citizens have any issues. Seiko's?Yes. I dont have a problem with bezel (you can set it between gears if annoyed) but missaligned chapter ring or printing is awful. That just look ugly. I ordered a new blue coral sumo (jdm, ltd edition) and it arrived with such a missalignment of both that it was a big disappointment. All of mine basic (cheap) NY0040's have perfect allignment.

    Conclusion?I guess Seiko is just too big profit maker that this just doesnt bother them. Well, Citizen is quite a big watch company also so that is no excuse. Its just cheating customers. Whenever I am buying a Seiko, I must specify to be sent an alligned watch (always!). Why should I ask sth that should be set on default???

    Seiko, read some feedback from your customers and forums, you are loosing your customers
    Last edited by martyloveswatches; 8th July 2020 at 06:35.

  7. #7
    Master
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    Highly likely the quality control team is far too small for the amount of watches they make.
    They probably check a small number of every batch and if they are good they let the whole lot through.

    For the price they charge these days every watch should be having a final inspection.
    Perhaps every watch is checked but the staff doing it are under pressure to rush through them all day.
    I imagine they are trained to be fast and not fussy.

  8. #8
    Agree with what you saying but Seiko definitely do the higher priced fantastically well , I’ve had a marinemaster sbdx017 and that was perfect but the top heavy got on my nerves in the end , just recently brought a SLA033 and that is amazing can’t fault it

  9. #9
    Master Glen Goyne's Avatar
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    Another big Seiko fan here, I have around 10 now and love them to bits. SKXes, Seiko 5 (modded/unmodded), vintage 6309, sarbs and sarxes, turtle, tuna and solar tuna. I have been lucky with alignment so far, just one had a chapter ring unaligned and I had it fixed at Seiko (Netherlands) who then scratched my caseback. At the price point it was acceptable to me though, seeing issues on far more expensive watches here. It still is mostly a volume business for the lower end Seiko's however a structural fix to the alignment should be possible. At least when they bring out newer models. I was also positively surprised, had a vintage 6309 serviced and the watchmaker indicated it likely had never been serviced or just the once - true workhorse given the age and easy to service still.

    The only thing that has changed as far as I am aware is that QC issues still occur, however prices have krept up on new releases and affordable favorites are no longer for sale.

    Price increases had to happen at one point and the room to increase was created by other brands who have all krept up, in my opinion by one specific brand taking the lead in this department which allowed the rest to follow. I don't see the other watches really getting much better, so te me it is still a pricing thing - and adjustment from Seiko was overdue. It would have been nice from Seiko to fix some issues at the same time but I would not expect them to if I look at the rest of the market.

    How this impacts me personally is that most new releases (since padi turtle/solar turtle) are now in a range where I no longer "insta-buy", e.g. mm200 and this years re-releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by j111dja View Post
    I own several Seiko's at present. My favourite (or let's just say, the one I wear the most these days out if choice) is a modified PADI Turtle, but I'm not happy with Seiko at present. Not happy at all. This is not a rant about prices. It is though a rant about quality control at their price point.
    Out of curiosity, what did you mod? considering a new crystal myself as I want to see the dial with less reflections (so not looking for AR with a color).

  10. #10
    Craftsman
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    I just wish they'd put a movement a little more refined in their £500+ watches, yes the 7s26 works well but the huge variance in regulation and then difficulty in regulating is a pain. I've had maybe... 20 7s26's variants over the past couple years and 2 of those have suffered from the 'known' low amplitude problem from new - suffering from positional variances of well over 60 seconds.

  11. #11
    Craftsman davidj54's Avatar
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    Hi OP, I really agree with what you’re saying. I too love Seiko, but have been really disappointed with the direction they’ve taken in the last few years. I wrote my own article on it a few months ago, so rather than rehashing I’ll just copy & paste my thoughts
    ———————
    Where Are Seiko Going?
    I really love Seiko but I wonder if they’re just losing their way a bit as a brand?

    They always had their niche with that amazing value in the sub £500 category and a number of iconic watches in their line up. But lately they seem to be going down a road that doesn’t appeal to me. They have this nasty habit of discontinuing their best watches; the Sarbs, the Alpinist and the SKX line to name a few. They’re trying to shoehorn every watch into the Seiko 5, Presage or Prospex categories, hiking their prices up quite significantly and releasing seemingly endless limited editions.

    They’ve reissued the Alpinist at double the price of the old one, but it’s a near enough identical watch. The SKX has been reissued as what appears to me to be a collection of ‘diver style’ fashion watches (5KX). I wonder if they’re trying to position themselves as a more elite brand, but what they seem to be lacking is flagship watches. Rolex obviously have a number of these, and think Omega and you immediately think Speedy or Seamaster.

    Seiko to me seem to suffer with a lack of these properly identifying models - and possibly the ones they did have they chopped. Think Seiko and we probably all think something different.

    Personally I think they need a flagship luxury diver - the SLA017 would be a great candidate as it has the heritage of the iconic 62MAS, true Seiko DNA in its design. Market it as such and stop the LE nonsense. Likewise a flagship value diver. Upgrading the SKX rather than ditching it would’ve been the smartest thing here as it too is a brand icon. A 4R movement, ceramic bezel, better bracelet. If the likes of Steinhart can offer this at the sub £400 mark then a giant like Seiko should be able to.

    Likewise a brand identifying gents sports dress watch, their own datejust - the Sarb033 and 035 were perfect for this both size and design wise yet they went, and the ones that appear to be their replacements in the Presage line up are oversized in my opinion. Grand Seiko offers the luxury option in this regard.

    Maybe I’m a being a bit harsh with these criticisms, but I just feel they’re getting a bit messy as a brand, quantity over quality, too much LE nonsense, losing their identity a bit.
    ———————

    As well as what I wrote there I agree with the QC issues raised. I’ve recently picked up an Orient Mako II and it’s at least equal to any SKX I’ve had in terms of build quality but has better QC and movement. I accept poor QC on the SKX as it’s almost a tradition, part of the charm. But it seems it’s a trait that follows Seiko models right up into the 4 figure mark which is unacceptable when as you rightly say there are micro brands and even Chinese homage companies currently doing a better job while using Seiko’s very own movements, at a fraction of the price.

    The only Seiko I currently own is the SARB035, one of their very best watches IMO from an era when they were the best in their market area.

    In summary they are all over the place - too many limited editions, a lack of clear identity, prices going up, QC not following, discontinuing popular models. They’ve taken a quantity over quality approach and it’s doing their brand no favours.
    Last edited by davidj54; 8th July 2020 at 09:01.

  12. #12
    My current Seiko collection consists of a first gen Monster, SARB 021, 6309, 6138, Landmaster and prospex turtle.

    The turtle is the only 'modern' Seiko (ie last ten years) I own and it is inferior to the nearest watch I can compare with, the Monster. I remember being blown away by the Monster's quality (my first mechanical too), and still am to be honest. I paid £80 for it 12 years ago!

    As much as I love the newer Seiko releases, it clearly does seem certain attention to detail has been lost. Remember the Monster back then was a Japan only model - the increase in production to a more worldwide audience means they clearly can't keep up to the old school standards.

    Will I buy another modern one? Honestly I think unlikely. The value proposition isn't there anymore sadly. Micro brands in particular seem to offer a lot more in the price range. We're lucky to have the choice. I'm very happy with the Seikos I do own - they're incredible watches that will be among the last to leave my collection. So if I do buy another Seiko, it'll be older watches with a more proven track record.

  13. #13
    Master j111dja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Goyne View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you mod? considering a new crystal myself as I want to see the dial with less reflections (so not looking for AR with a color).
    I replaced the crystal with a domed, blue AR coated sapphire. It also has a yobokies large pip insert and OEM bezel, but it is back on the OEM bezel and insert at present. I have two spare bezels so I don't need to change the insert. Just the bezel.

    There are different options, crystal wise. A flat sapphire, top hat, domed, double domed, different AR coatings etc. I usually go for a blue AR coatings on watch with blue dial. I think Crystaltimes have a domed sapphire with no AR or clear AR. CT057 is the reference for an SRP Turtle.
    Last edited by j111dja; 9th July 2020 at 17:42.

  14. #14
    To get a good Seiko these days you have to go for an SLA which almost isn't a Seiko. Certainly not the price you think of when you think Seiko. I've only had SRPs SPBs and SLAs so not sure on the Pressage line.

  15. #15
    Master Glen Goyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j111dja View Post
    There are different options, crystal wise. A flat sapphire, top hat, domed, double domed, different AR coatings etc. I usually go for a blue AR coatings on watch with blue dial. I think Crystaltimes have a domed sapphire with no AR or clear AR. CT057 is the reference for an SRP Turtle.
    Thanks! I would do it purely to see the dial better. Don’t need a different shape or stronger material. AR coated crystal on my alpinist really makes the green dial pop. Would the padi dial benefit from this in your opinion?


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  16. #16
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    I don't think the turtle chapter ring alignment issues were a QC problem per se, the root cause as far as I can see is poor design. The chapter rings line up perfectly well when the movement is cased up, they become misaligned when the caseback is tightened because the caseback drags the movement and dial around slightly as it compresses onto the casing ring. Why on earth they didn't go for a floating chapter ring with a notch that located on a dial tab as they'd done for years previously I can't fathom out.

    Change for changes sake or change to reduce production costs isn't always the best way forward.

  17. #17
    Master j111dja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    I don't think the turtle chapter ring alignment issues were a QC problem per se, the root cause as far as I can see is poor design. The chapter rings line up perfectly well when the movement is cased up, they become misaligned when the caseback is tightened because the caseback drags the movement and dial around slightly as it compresses onto the casing ring. Why on earth they didn't go for a floating chapter ring with a notch that located on a dial tab as they'd done for years previously I can't fathom out.

    Change for changes sake or change to reduce production costs isn't always the best way forward.
    I've had that issue with 6309's in the past.

    The issue I've had over the last few years is misaligned chapter rings on new Turtles.

    The modern day Turtles have a locating notch in the case at exactly 12 (and I think one at 6 as well) for the chapter ring. There is a raised tab on the underside of the chapter ring at the 12 and 6 positions. All therefore will align perfectly. I've had around nine Turtles with misaligned chapter rings as the case notches are off, and quite badly off too. (The first time I saw that I was shocked at how bad this issue was). As such, the chapter ring will never line up at 12 until the raised tabs are removed and the chapter ring refitted. It is ridiculous. If that is the case, I remove the raised tabs on the underneath of the chapter ring, and then realign the chapter ring prior to say a sapphire crystal is fitted. The compression of the crystal and the crystal gasket on to the chapter ring has always worked in keeping the chapter ring fixed in position, thankfully.
    Last edited by j111dja; 8th July 2020 at 13:20.

  18. #18
    Master j111dja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Goyne View Post
    Thanks! I would do it purely to see the dial better. Don’t need a different shape or stronger material. AR coated crystal on my alpinist really makes the green dial pop. Would the padi dial benefit from this in your opinion?


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    As standard? I would say so.

  19. #19
    Master j111dja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance wheel View Post
    Agree with what you saying but Seiko definitely do the higher priced fantastically well , I’ve had a marinemaster sbdx017 and that was perfect but the top heavy got on my nerves in the end , just recently brought a SLA033 and that is amazing can’t fault it
    Definitely no QC issues with the SLA033.
    Last edited by j111dja; 8th July 2020 at 13:15.

  20. #20
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Seiko are incoherent - I cannot for the life of me disentangle the "logic" to their countless overlapping ranges, they spunk-out unceasing SEs, short-runs and region-specifics, they own a catalogue of even-more confusing brands who manage to duplicate one-another's efforts in the most incontinent manner, and then wrap it all up in some really REALLY dire, horrible-to-use websites full of inadequate information and nasty pictures. All of this while trying to push most of it upmarket!

    Design-wise, they have a knack of snatching defeat from flawless victory - there's always some niggling feature (cheap-looking hands on a beautiful dial, clumsy, intrusive power reserve, one-too-many-colour in a design, bad date window, tin-can instead of ceramic bezel insert on a pricey watch... &c &c ad naus.).

    None of these faults are exclusive to Seiko, indeed, the curate's egg is very good in parts, nor does it invalidate what they do well, there's just no consistent structure, no stratification, no logic: it's just a giant teetering Gormenghastly-mess that I cannot even be bothered to try to disentangle...

  21. #21
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    I'm a big Seiko fan, mostly vintage but I have had GS's and still own a Turtle and SKX 007.

    The movements in the lower range 7S26's and NH's are pretty basic with often poor timekeeping because they are not adjusted when built (probably incapable of it anyway).

    These niggles aside they were still fabulous value until the latest micro brands turned up that offer probably better quality at a far cheaper price.

    I probably won't buy another new Seiko but I am always looking out for vintage as many were higher quality - and better looking.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  22. #22
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    I can only echo what has already been said about the QC. I could be wrong but it only became a thing when the Turtle was released and has now spread throughout the range. I can't remember any threads complaining about SKX007 alignment issues prior to the Turtle release.

    One thing that really grips me is Seiko turning a blind eye to all the fake dials etc on Ebay, which in turn has led to the majority of 6309's and Pogue's on the market being filled with fake parts. I've just had an email exchange with a chap on another forum who posted up a picture of the Pogue he'd just paid £600 for and everything bar the case and movement was fake. He's now getting a refund but can you imagine if someone started selling Sub inserts in fake Rolex packaging on Ebay - they'd feel the full force of the Rolex legal team, but Seiko just turn a blind eye and don't seem to care...

  23. #23
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j111dja View Post
    The issue I've had over the last few years is misaligned chapter rings on new Turtles.
    Aplogies, I should have been clearer Dave, the poor design issues I was referring to are with the modern turtle reissues.

  24. #24
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    I really like Seiko watches. Always have done and still own a few. The vintage ones appeal to me a lot, although I would like to add a modern GS of some kind in due course. My mini Turtle gets a lot of wear too. I can’t comment on QC as I’ve yet to have a problem. Suspect that’s luck as much as judgement on my part!

    What I’m finding more and more, with the increasingly expansive (and expensive) range is that it’s just lost its way. It’s been alluded to in a few posts already and others have used the exact word I’d choose; messy. There’s a plethora of LE’s, new watches what feels like every week, no ‘halo’ models that the man on the street who’s slightly interested in watches would recognise and no overall direction as far as I can tell. Some of the watches pitched at the £1k upwards price point look and feel good. Then you look at what others, such as Orient, are offering and realise they’re at least as good for half the price.

    So, I still like many of the watches. I’ll probably keep buying them, albeit more vintage than brand new. I really would like them to have a good think about what they’re offering and who to though.

    Their website is pants too!


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  25. #25
    For me they need to spend an extra 20 quid on the auto movements they fit. I am totally put off now by their automatic movements, every one I have owned has been poor at timekeeping compared to eta movements. I know People knock Christopher Ward but the last one I purchased from CW recently was far better timekeeper than the Seiko and it was less money, just no excuse, crappy £30 movement in a £600 Seiko watch.

  26. #26
    Master PreacherCain's Avatar
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    For me, the main problem is the dilution and balkanisation of the range. There used to be clear blue water between the core Seiko range and GS, now you have the LX Prospex watches costing more or less the same as GS, and what feels like a million-and-one other sub-ranges scattered around the market.

    Personally I’ve yet to experience any QC issues (though I’ve not really focused on the new Turtle range so perhaps just dodged a bullet there?), and have found the movements (4R35 and 6R15s mainly) to be reliable and good time keepers - at least, to all practical purposes indistinguishable from the various ETAs I have in other watches.

    Finally (again, personal view so inherently subjective) they do seem capable of producing some really striking designs every now and again. I bought a “great blue hole” 200m baby MM a couple of years back as a fun, colourful “bit of a laugh”, and it’s now a core part of my collection. It’s supremely wearable, oddly compact for a watch bigger then my usual 40mm sweet spot, and to my eyes a really cohesive and graceful design.

    Fundamentally then I suspect my main frustrations with Seiko are driven by the fact that their main market isn’t enthusiasts like us, but the General Public, which in turn means they try to be all things to all customers and lose a bit of focus.

  27. #27
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    My problem with seiko is mainly the quality of some of the bracelets especially on the Chrono models and the cheaper end of the market I would expect these days to have at least a solid link bracelet instead of folded links or hollow but a lot of seiko under the £200 mark seem to be all hollow bracelets

  28. #28
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Design-wise, they have a knack of snatching defeat from flawless victory - there's always some niggling feature (cheap-looking hands on a beautiful dial, clumsy, intrusive power reserve, one-too-many-colour in a design, bad date window, tin-can instead of ceramic bezel insert on a pricey watch... &c &c ad naus.)
    I am convinced that as soon as a watch is designed this fantastic thing is presented to the Wielder of the Ugly Stick who unbalances the dial with a power reserve or date at four. Maybe makes the hands look a bit uncomfortable, maybe makes the bezel a bit odd.

    A few months ago I had a chat with the chap at the Seiko Boutique in London and he said he would sell a lot more watches if they didn't have a power reserve.

    What I can't help but think is it wouldn't be too desperately hard to do a clean dial, like a Sub ND, for Spring Drive watches, with simply no power reserve and/or wonky date. There are a lot of Seikos I'd buy if they tweaked small details.
    "A man of little significance"

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevecross View Post
    For me they need to spend an extra 20 quid on the auto movements they fit. I am totally put off now by their automatic movements, every one I have owned has been poor at timekeeping compared to eta movements. I know People knock Christopher Ward but the last one I purchased from CW recently was far better timekeeper than the Seiko and it was less money, just no excuse, crappy £30 movement in a £600 Seiko watch.
    Also what's the serviceability? You beed to only go back to 4s15 line of movements and there is no parts supply. These were sold only 10 years ago. Last I read up, Seiko on only provides parts when the movement is in production.

    The mod community is amazing, but outlines another downfall of seiko. The 3rd party suppliers basically have to provide parts in order to service the watches.

  30. #30
    Master PreacherCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    I am convinced that as soon as a watch is designed this fantastic thing is presented to the Wielder of the Ugly Stick who unbalances the dial with a power reserve or date at four. Maybe makes the hands look a bit uncomfortable, maybe makes the bezel a bit odd.

    A few months ago I had a chat with the chap at the Seiko Boutique in London and he said he would sell a lot more watches if they didn't have a power reserve.

    What I can't help but think is it wouldn't be too desperately hard to do a clean dial, like a Sub ND, for Spring Drive watches, with simply no power reserve and/or wonky date. There are a lot of Seikos I'd buy if they tweaked small details.
    This goes to illustrate the subjectivity inherent in this discussion: I am painfully aware that I am in a minority (of one, probably) but I like the Spring Drive power reserve; it's quirky, unique and (dare I say it?) useful to boot. Look at the GS Spring Drive chronographs with their, ahem, *challenging* pusher design and odd dial layout - not my cup of tea, aesthetically, but at least it isn't yet another conventional design, and it's something definitively Seiko-ish.

  31. #31
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    The notch on chapter ring means it cannot be missaligned. Can it be off-printed?Whatever it is, it looks awful and I cant stand watching that face.

  32. #32
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    I am convinced that as soon as a watch is designed this fantastic thing is presented to the Wielder of the Ugly Stick who unbalances the dial with a power reserve or date at four. Maybe makes the hands look a bit uncomfortable, maybe makes the bezel a bit odd.

    A few months ago I had a chat with the chap at the Seiko Boutique in London and he said he would sell a lot more watches if they didn't have a power reserve.

    What I can't help but think is it wouldn't be too desperately hard to do a clean dial, like a Sub ND, for Spring Drive watches, with simply no power reserve and/or wonky date. There are a lot of Seikos I'd buy if they tweaked small details.

    Well said, even though I'm in an outgroup who quite likes date-at-4 (esp. if crown-at-4), I get that it's not popular and so doesn't make commercial sense. Same with the power reserves - and with those it's not so much their presence, it's that they're just flytipped onto the dial in the most unimaginative way possible. There are a million ways you could implement a PR indicator - it does not have to be a quadrant and a pointer!

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by scootnfast View Post
    My problem with seiko is mainly the quality of some of the bracelets especially on the Chrono models and the cheaper end of the market I would expect these days to have at least a solid link bracelet instead of folded links or hollow but a lot of seiko under the £200 mark seem to be all hollow bracelets

    Same here I just recently purchased the new Willard model hoping it would scratch the itch for a 6105 at a more comfortable price point but the fit and finish of the bracelet was awful for a £1200 watch , keep looking at that SLA033 on sc but £2300 is above my budget slightly.

  34. #34
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scootnfast View Post
    My problem with seiko is mainly the quality of some of the bracelets especially on the Chrono models and the cheaper end of the market I would expect these days to have at least a solid link bracelet instead of folded links or hollow but a lot of seiko under the £200 mark seem to be all hollow bracelets
    I'm gradually cleaning-up and refurbishing a Seiko quartz from mi yoot. So far it's taken three long, hot soaks of the folded-link bracelet, accompanied with mucho toothbrushy scrubbing to free it of all its fossilised filth.

    If you were trying to design something to accumulate and retain as much squalid man-grot and wristcheese as possible, I'd say the Seiko folded-link bracelet could win design awards...

  35. #35
    Journeyman
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    I quite like the power reserve as a few other people have already mentioned. It's a good heads up when it's about to stop especially if it's part of a collection that gets worn in rotation.

  36. #36
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    I never liked the power reserve until I actually got one on my Snowflake and I really like it, it's beautifully finished, a pleasure to watch it move up as you wind it a complication that is actually useful. The number of GMT watches I've had and I never found the complication actually useful.

  37. #37
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    The notch on chapter ring means it cannot be missaligned. Can it be off-printed?Whatever it is, it looks awful and I cant stand watching that face.
    The notch on the chapter ring is smaller than the gap in the ring it fits to. That's why there is play in the allignment.

  38. #38
    Master James_'s Avatar
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    Putting a stupid X on everything.
    Crap QC.
    Stopped producing the SKX007.
    Price increase with no increase in quality.


    I checked out 4 Turtles in an AD. 2 new grenade dial new version and 2 standard. Same old QC issues and one of the new versions crowns I couldn't get open with my fingers. I know it's not limited to Seiko but if they are going to double the price of the Turtle and only justify it with sapphire, ceramic bezel, 30 hours more power reserve and a stunning! grenade dial then a bit better QC would be welcome.

  39. #39
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of the power reserve. Super useful when you wear a few watches in rotation

    To me an X on the dial seems like a minor quible compared to doing something like SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO all around the watch. Now that would be ridiculous.
    Last edited by bedlam; 10th July 2020 at 02:19.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    I'm a fan of the power reserve. Super useful when you wear a few watches in rotation

    To me an X on the dial seems like a minor quible compared to doing something like SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO all around the watch. Now that would be ridiculous.
    Ok, accepting that argument - it then puzzles me why GS stubbornly only have it on Spring Drive and not on the auto or hi-beat movements...

  41. #41
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    And why is the PR at 8, when even Orient can see the joy of symmetry and put it in the centre of the dial?

  42. #42
    "Presage" - WTF is that about?
    I will never buy a watch under that label.
    Give me Flightmaster, Marinemaster or Landmaster.
    My SBDW005 feels like its from another era.

  43. #43
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    And why is the PR at 8, when even Orient can see the joy of symmetry and put it in the centre of the dial?
    Do they?




  44. #44
    Craftsman rodia77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    I'm a fan of the power reserve. Super useful when you wear a few watches in rotation

    To me an X on the dial seems like a minor quible compared to doing something like SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO all around the watch. Now that would be ridiculous.
    How about a GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS dial?


    (pic stolen from here)

  45. #45
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    <Errant edit>
    Last edited by bedlam; 13th July 2020 at 01:41.

  46. #46
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodia77 View Post
    How about a GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS GS dial?

    (pic stolen from here)
    Yeah, not my ideal.

    But at least its just the GS initials worked into a design rather than GRANDSEIKO in all-caps repeated ad nauseum. That would be ridiculous.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevecross View Post
    For me they need to spend an extra 20 quid on the auto movements they fit. I am totally put off now by their automatic movements, every one I have owned has been poor at timekeeping compared to eta movements. I know People knock Christopher Ward but the last one I purchased from CW recently was far better timekeeper than the Seiko and it was less money, just no excuse, crappy £30 movement in a £600 Seiko watch.
    Totally agree. I've decided not to buy anymore entry to mid level Seikos for that exact reason - poor movements. Love the designs, cases and bracelets for the most part but my money would now be on affordable options with ETA or Sellita movements and the Grand Seiko line.

  48. #48
    Master Gruntfuttock's Avatar
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    The Seiko range has always been a mess, trying to appeal to too many different customers. And when they finally do release an interesting watch, every one of them I have seen in a shop window has the misaligned rehaut/chapter ring.
    Last edited by Gruntfuttock; 12th July 2020 at 06:33.

  49. #49
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    I'm a fan of the power reserve. Super useful when you wear a few watches in rotation

    To me an X on the dial seems like a minor quible compared to doing something like SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO all around the watch. Now that would be ridiculous.
    I can't imagine any company doing something so tacky - oh wait...
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  50. #50
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    No problem with MM's tunas, so, definetely, qc issues with lower-mids range...sadly

    Poslano sa mog FRD-L09 koriste?i Tapatalk

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