Would love some thoughts from TZ!
Fingers firmly crossed, all things being well I should become a father to a son in a few weeks time
Have for years thought if we were able to have kids it would be great to commemorate the event with a watch - with that being something I’d one day hand down
I managed to find the below discussion which pretty articulately sums up all the pros and cons I’d been mulling over
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...light=Heirloom
My additional consideration is that the money could almost certainly be spent in other ways, which would arguably do much more to improve his life! I’m by no means fantastically wealthy and very conscious that buying a luxury watch in the middle of a pandemic doesn’t feel brilliant, but that said I had been saving up some money with this in mind for some time now
So it’s still a thought process I’d like to work through, my current views...
• Has to be new, not vintage (I adore vintage watches, but buying something a whole lifetime older than him doesn’t sit right with me)
• Needs to be a classic design, to stand a chance of still looking good in the future
• Would prefer a well recognised brand, ideally to hold value should it be required to be sold either during mine or his possession should circumstances change
• Whilst I really like the look of many vintage Rolex pieces, there are very few in the current range which appeal to me (apologies)
• My wife suggests it should be not a daily wearer, but the one which I most look forward to wearing (I would still intend to rotate my small collection)
• No date, I generally dislike crown guards and nothing too big
With those in mind, my shortlist is...short!
I have a vintage Speedmaster which I love and was my first proper watch, so would be nice to pass the same thing on - however, can’t see myself wearing a brand new one instead of mine, so would need to be a different variant
So
1. Speedy Tuesday (S1) is top of the list, but struggling to see any for sale at a sensible price
2. FOIS is also a nice option - and could be the only proper watch I’d ever bought brand new which would be a nice extra
3. I really like the older moonphases, but think I trip over my vintage rule
(Also slightly mindful that speedies are ‘cool’ to us in part because moon travel has been so limited, that may change dramatically over next few years)
4. A black Explorer II is about the only modern Rolex I like, and my other main watch is a 1016 so again there’s some continuity to that...not sure how feasible it would be to acquire a new one in the timeframe though and it might be a little large for me
5. Similarly the BB36 is arguably as close to the 1016 as anything (I’m not a fan of the shiny numerals on 214270s etc), but doesn’t feel special enough - sadly I think same goes for the new BB58 Blue which I really like
6. Maybe some type of Railmaster for the classic good looks
Other things I’ve always admired are JLC Reversos and Cartier Tanks, but think in practice I’d be unlikely to wear these frequently enough and they might look antique in a couple decades time
Am I missing anything obvious??
Rolex arent a brand that I am particularly interested in, but for the best chance at being worth something in years ahead thats what I went for. I bought my son a Rolex GMT master 2 ceramic in 2012 when he was born, and its sitting in my safe all stickered up. Cost me £4600 at the time, a birthday watch is something I would like even if he doesnt kt still should turn out to have been a good investment for him
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I received a watch from my dad, his every day watch, that had all his daily scratches/scars on over the years, that meant more to me than any shiny new watch I have, currently in for a full service but absolutely no polish. I have other watches of significantly higher value, but together with my wedding watch and my 18th birthday watch they are core of my collection.
FOIS would be a fine watch and will never go out of fashion or out of place. Also zenith el primero 38mm in similar fashion. Steel JLC master control moonphase.
why not just pass on the 1016? Great watch
Wear it so your child grows up with the memory of dad wearing the watch, when its passed on it will hold some pretty special memories
The MK2 214270 is much nicer with the lumed numerals compared to the MK1 white gold numerals. This would make sense from the view that your son, being the modern version of you, has the modern version of what you have. It can be a bit underwhelming though and my FIL calls mine a posh Seiko.
The 42mm Explorer II is thinner than you'd think and wears very flat, not a saucepan but can depend on how flat your wrist is. The black is much less popular than the white and given you don't know how niche your son's tastes will be it could be more of a gamble than some other safe choices. When I had an 42mm Exp 2 I went white as on the black I couldn't get my head around the floating hands. A matte dial with the black metallic back-end of the hands didn't make sense to me as that stood out too much. Less popular now could be the best buy with 20 years of hindsight?
A guess an obvious one that again might be a bit underwhelming would be an 34, 36 or 39 OP in white. The next obvious one would be a no date Sub but who knows what age he'll be by the time you get that.
Either way congratulations and I'm sure when the time comes he'll either love it or join TZ and list it for a profit
Thanks - just googled that JLC suggestion, there are some very nice looking things there! Prob above my budget thoughOriginally Posted by ac11111
Has made me realise I've never given too much consideration to a moons-phase complication before - I presume this would become pretty annoying quickly if not being worn frequently enough to keep the power reserve topped up?
This sounds like the best option.
However, as per OPs question - I would probably choose the BB36. I don’t necessarily like Rolexes (well, I do, just not the idea of having one), the Tudor seems like a great quality watch with a timeless design that doesn’t break the bank. So, (god forbid) your offspring is not interested in watches - not much harm done :-)
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Thanks, yes, that's definitely something to consider - it was also my wedding watch, so plan is that it never gets sold and so I'd expect him to inherit it at some stage or another
I guess I was just thinking it would be nice to have something 'him-specific'! I was also hoping it'd be something which would definitely be waterproof and not so ridiculously expensive that he wasn't able to wear it and feel comfortable with it getting wet or taking a ding
I don't really follow the logic that two pieces which have been around for more than 80 years (Reverso/Tank) might look antiquated. If anything, their continued presence in JLC and Cartier's catalogue proves the opposite. Since they're now considered on the dressier side of the spectrum and possibly be worn less often, they might survive the intervening years in better condition than a sportier watch, as you're wife alludes to.
Of course, it's entirely possible that any wristwatch might appear antiquated in a couple of decades time!
I've seen a number of very similar threads on here over the years, and the best suggestion I've seen would be to invest the money somewhere, and on your Son's 18th or 21st or graduation, first job, etc - whenever it may be, take him away for a surprise weekend - just the two of you - shopping together for a watch. It would be a memorable event, and one that would result in him getting a watch that looks and feels right for him.
There are so many variables at play in choosing something for him now; and as has been said before, it would avoid him feeling obliged to wear something he may or may not actually like, which holds no personal significance to either of you as an object as it's been carefully stored away.
Assuming your fund is around the £4-5k mark based on the models you've mentioned, you're also almost certainly likely to get a better return over 20 or so years unless you're exceptionally lucky and buy a future rarity, which is not that likely.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck with the birth and get as much sleep in as you can now..
Thanks - just took a look at the MK2 214270 - you're right, I guess I realise I probably just don't get on with that type and size of font - feels a bit too show-y for meThe MK2 214270 is much nicer with the lumed numerals compared to the MK1 white gold numerals. This would make sense from the view that your son, being the modern version of you, has the modern version of what you have. It can be a bit underwhelming though and my FIL calls mine a posh Seiko.
The 42mm Explorer II is thinner than you'd think and wears very flat, not a saucepan but can depend on how flat your wrist is. The black is much less popular than the white and given you don't know how niche your son's tastes will be it could be more of a gamble than some other safe choices. When I had an 42mm Exp 2 I went white as on the black I couldn't get my head around the floating hands. A matte dial with the black metallic back-end of the hands didn't make sense to me as that stood out too much. Less popular now could be the best buy with 20 years of hindsight?
A guess an obvious one that again might be a bit underwhelming would be an 34, 36 or 39 OP in white. The next obvious one would be a no date Sub but who knows what age he'll be by the time you get that.
Either way congratulations and I'm sure when the time comes he'll either love it or join TZ and list it for a profit
Maybe I need to try to find somewhere where I could try on an Explorer II to rule it in or out
And yes agree, think the modern OPs are just a little too bland for my liking
Sub would arguably be the absolute simplest option to go with - somehow acquire a birth year one for him and job done...however it's those crown guards I just can't get on with! (ok though I accept the Exp II isn't free of them either!)
There's a lot of sense spoken here!!
I feel like you've glossed over the unspoken subtext that this could also be a way for me to legitimise having something I'd enjoy for the next 18 or so years too though...
I agree with this.
If the general idea is to do this for your son (congrats on that btw), I would invest the money in a fund or an ETF, and then see how things are in 18-21 years time (if that is when you imagine the watch should be passed on).
Its hard to say if any watch will hold its value that length of time, and who knows what he might be into.
That's fair - I guess my concern is that I'm not really the type of guy who gets invited to dress watch events and a little worried that it would end up being preserved for best, only for those situations to come along so rarely that the little guy barely ever saw me wear it!
From internet article I read on this
Why do we have children in the first place? To anchor our rudderless lives with a faint sense of meaning? To give and receive unconditional love? To experience the most profound and humbling experience that is available to humanity? No, no and thrice no! We have children, of course, as a half-arsed excuse to buy ourselves more new watches.
Two words....
Jeff. Goldblum.
Rocks his Tank with pretty much anything!
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Last edited by lughugger; 7th July 2020 at 14:31.
Thanks - yes I think if I liked the design of the modern GMTs that'd be the route I'd go too
Albeit in my case I think I'd wear it and apologise for devaluing it when I handed it over!
If you're looking for a "sellable in an emergency" heirloom then I would say Explorer.
The black bay 58 is also a great choice as its a sensibly priced and sized modern "vintage" watch.
I would absolutely caution against JLC Cartier and any omega other than the standard hesalite speedy pro.
PERFECT!!From internet article I read on this
Why do we have children in the first place? To anchor our rudderless lives with a faint sense of meaning? To give and receive unconditional love? To experience the most profound and humbling experience that is available to humanity? No, no and thrice no! We have children, of course, as a half-arsed excuse to buy ourselves more new watches.
I was not aware, google image searching this just makes you smile!
Ironically one of the only photos where he's not wearing it is with (presumably) his newborn!
(for reference, Reddit suggests that one is a Max Bill - which is another watch I love but probably in the not special enough camp)
My only slight issue here is that I already have a tank-style Raymond Weil (quartz unfortunately) which I bought with some inheritance and was my daily wearer for about a decade, but has only been worn a couple of times in the decade that's followed, as the purchase of my Speedy got me into mechanical watches - a Cartier would effectively guarantee the RW never got worn again which ideally I'd like to avoid
Obviously the watch is for you!
I have three sons and never bothered with buying a watch or anything else for them when they were born.
Odds are that when your boy comes of age he won't want some old geezers type watch anyway. With the the kids loving Apple watches etc nowadays who knows what will be around then?
I do recall my eldest when I offered him a choice of some nice vintage Omegas saying, " I don't want an old man's watch".
Rather grounding.
Put the cash in an ISA for him. He'd much prefer a lump of cash when he is 18 rather than a fusty old watch.
Cheers,
Neil.
My thinking with this sort of subject and trust me I’ve done a bit of thinking on it as I have 3 sons. All are aware of my watches. Even my three year old has his favourite all be it because it beeps and has a bezel action he can do. I never went for the buy a watch at their birth time idea I went with the natural to me was to wear my collection let my collection develop and as it did if each one took a shine to a particular piece I would leave it with them after me. But on top of this I have promised the older 2 at their 18th or 21st we shop shop and get them their first real good watch if they wanted one. My eldest who is 16 this week has already identified the one he loves for his 18th and has his heart set on a Tudor Bronze. Not a watch I would go for but he has been set on it for a good while now.
So in all I love the idea of passing them a watch and love the idea of buying them a watch but believe they should choose.
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Indeed. Didn't wish to offend, but it seems a very contrived excuse to buy a new toyThere's a lot of sense spoken here!!
I feel like you've glossed over the unspoken subtext that this could also be a way for me to legitimise having something I'd enjoy for the next 18 or so years too though...
Buying a watch to mark a birth is a neat idea - but not sure you should be planning an heirloom. Most likely your son will want whatever you generally wear over the years to come. You cannot plan these things, so don't over think it.
I suggest: a submariner non-date 4 liner or 2 liner pre-ceramic but with super luminova - maybe “swiss made” dial. I bet a WTB would get a catch on here for one virtually NOS
if you insist it has to be new - get the ceramic latest version.
or
DJ of your choice - if you can get over the date (maybe your son would like one?)
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 7th July 2020 at 16:36.
To think on other lines. I would be tempted to look at the Omegs Seamaster 300 Master Coaxial, the titanium one
This one
pic from monochrome
Personally I think it is a very nice design, with an impressive specification, a vintage/timeless feel and look
Dave
Thanks all, lots of good points
In honesty, yes, this would definitely be a present to myself in the first instance - not blaming my unborn child for bad 'investments'!
I'm also mindful my priorities will change significantly in a few weeks time, almost certainly I'll have less time and money for watches so also expecting if I did buy something it'd likely be my last significant watch purchase for the foreseeable
I'd not really thought about it before, but certainly not ruling out someday being able to afford to buy him a nice watch of his own which he would like (acknowledging he might have zero interest though) as well, but think that's a slightly different thing to what I had in mind in terms of something passed on down the family
I relatively recently inherited a Waltham pocket watch which belonged to my grandfather who died when I was young. As a functional item I'll never wear or use it, but the connection is magnificent. Being such manageable sizes I'd like to think a watch could survive through families a lot more successfully than most physical objects
Now we're talking - I like the look of the 1957 trilogy version as wellTo think on other lines. I would be tempted to look at the Omegs Seamaster 300 Master Coaxial, the titanium one
This one
pic from monochrome
Personally I think it is a very nice design, with an impressive specification, a vintage/timeless feel and look
Dave
My opinion : it doesn’t matter what watch you buy.
He might not have any interest in watches, in which case it doesn’t matter what watch you get for him. If he does have an interest in watches there’s a good chance that whatever you pick won’t be to his taste.
All he is likely to care about is the sentimentality of having a watch passed down to him, that you’ve worn and enjoyed, that he remembers seeing you wearing as he grows up.
My son bought a Globemaster in similar circumstances, and it's not a watch I'd considered before but am really impressed with it. A mark of his true motivation however, is that he knew he was having a girl.
Would be a good choice, many of our Fathers or Grandfathers had Omegas and still looked upon favourably. Classic design, will age well IMO, better than a diving watch.
Obviously parenting from both generations! Congrats
Just been having a quick look at them, they are very nice things and possibly the only fluted bezel I can remember liking
Seems they don’t do a no-date option which is a shame
I can see the benefits and pitfalls with this. I bought a Milgauss in my son’s birth year which I love and he seems to like too (at the moment). However I also inherited a watch from my father in law recently and although it was a lovely gesture and I was delighted to receive it, it will not get much wear it as it’s just not my style.
Cheers
Rory
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Last edited by Rory; 8th July 2020 at 09:03. Reason: Tapatalk apostrophe fail!
Spot on. You're trying to force sentiment, and force something to be "special". It won't be.
Forget about it for the next 18 years and I'm sure something which is genuinely special and not painfully contrived will become clear over time, and you'll be able to recreate the Patek Philippe ad which is stuck in your head that way.
Yes, and I bet he didn't go out with the intention of buying "an heirloom watch" to "make it special". He probably just owned it, and used it, without any cringey pre-planning.
Just wear whatever watches you wear. Maybe your kid will care. Maybe he won't. But there will at least be some authenticity when you decide to give him a knackered hand-me-down rather than the car/cash/holiday he actually wants.
Thanks...per my original post I was really hoping for some thoughts if there were any other fairly classic style watches I’d not considered *if* this was a route I decided to go down - am giving plenty of thought to the pros and cons of whether or not to do so though and think they’re fairly well covered in the other thread I linked to
OP, if you want to buy something buy what you like. It will be special to you because of what it represents and special to him because it was yours.
If you want a watch that will hold it's value then you are looking at sure things from Rolex and Patek or taking a punt on limited editions from Seiko or Omega and hope you get lucky (Snoopy etc.). Any other manufacturer is going to lose money if bought at retail (even with a discount).
I never really 'got' the idea of buying a watch as a viable investment vehicle, yes it can happen and with certain brands is even likely but for me watches are emotional things and I'd rather have something that I can wear and make memories with my son with than something that I hand him at 18 or 21 from the safe that means nothing to either him or me.
As for something modern yet vintage then look at the latest Breitlings - they aren't to my taste any longer - I preferred the chunky styling, but the latest ones are veering hard toward vintage and legacy styling. Longines is another brand that leans heavily on their heritage and the Rado Captain Cook is also worth a look. I've never been a fan of Omega but they also seem to have been bitten by the vintage bug.
Thanks - yes Longines Legend Diver is one I’d forgotten but that I’ve always been interested in, the 36mm could be a good option if I could find one, good thinking
Captain Cook is one I’d assumed would be too big, but I see there might be a 37mm option to investigate too, cheers
(Note - I appreciate the Speedies are generally 42mm too, but I find on a strap they fit me nicely vs other bigger watches!)
My thoughts would be a 2020 Tokyo Olympic Omega, the olympics were cancelled but the watches still exist, so these will be a talking point in years to come and probably have a good value, not that I have ever bought a watch based on its future value but more on if I like it.
In hindsight I probably should have titled this thread differently and just asked for watches that fit the criteria I’ve outlined instead of going into the background for the purchase!
Just to clarify, I was really just hoping to get some suggestions of fairly classic designs (or twists on) that I might not have considered
I’m not expecting it would appreciate over time (I’m largely in the camp of thinking that once our generations move on the value of these things will plummet anyway), but would prefer for it not to lose half its value the second I’ve walked out the shop!
I’m really just looking for something which I’ll want to wear for the next c20 years
If the kid then shows absolutely zero interest in it at any stage in his life no problem!
So... looking at your criteria...
Well recognised brand to me means either Rolex, Tag, Breitling, Omega or Cartier. Brands like JLC, GS etc get respect on here but I don't think they're well recognised outside the WIS bubble.
Timeless design, not too big, no date and no crown guard. I know you said you wouldn't wear a Tank, did you think about a Santos? Much sportier looking and more versatile, easy to switch straps and bracelets etc so you'd get a lot more wear out of it, and design doesn't come more timeless than that. Most have a crown guard though.
No date, no crown guard and not too big rules out a lot of the sportier options, but from your brief it sounds like you wouldn't wear a lot of the dressier options so you're kind of stuck in the middle. How do you feel about the Breitling Premier range?
Thanks - this is exactly the type of thing I was hoping for!My thoughts would be a 2020 Tokyo Olympic Omega, the olympics were cancelled but the watches still exist, so these will be a talking point in years to come and probably have a good value, not that I have ever bought a watch based on its future value but more on if I like it.
I’d seen the Tokyo Speedmasters and really liked the idea of it commemorating this year, plus a couple of the colourways I would definitely enjoy - sadly I believe they were only available in Japan and sold out so presume I’d struggle to find one, let alone for a sensible price but they would be very high on my wish list I guess
I’ll have a look through what else there is though
Last edited by Hennersf; 9th July 2020 at 11:10.
Explorer meets the criteria? No date / 39mm / design has changed much in years / no crown guard / accessible or short wait
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Thanks - yes, it’s almost perfect / just not a fan of the font/size for the numerals sadly
Plus I think I’d struggle to choose it over the 1016 each day, which I appreciate is a very lucky position to be in!
The BB36 does still tempt me though - much of the look of the 1016 but wearable in all situations without ever needing to worry
Thanks - really useful comments
I’ve never managed to get comfortable with the screwheads on the Santos, but in all fairness not sure if I’ve ever seen one in real life - maybe I should hunt one out to take a look at
Wasn’t aware of the Breitling Premier collection, I particularly like the case and dial configuration of the Top Time re-issue, but dial design is prob a little too punchy for what I had in mind!
If you are considering a FOIS, an alternative might be the CK 2998.
Or perhaps one of the new IWC Portugiesers, either in chrono or non chrono form. The IWC pilot watch is also a classic style, but of course it has a date. Likewise the Zenith Defy.
"Heirloom" is not a criteria. It's something that's handed down.
Buy what you want, wear what you want, and that's that.
I would advise that you stop trying to force real life into some weird pastiche of a Patek adertisement, where you don a turtleneck and designer stubble and lovingly hand your 7ft Swiss banker son a pristine dress watch by the fire.
If your fave watch is a diver, so be it. Unless your kid is a real knob it's unlikely he'll say "Piss off dad, this isn't an HEIRLOOM WATCH".
I would definitely take time to have a look at the Breitlings in the metal, you're right that the dial on the Top Time is a bit funky but I think some of the others have a real classic look to them. Always catches my eye when I see them in a shop window. Violates your no date rule though!
I doubt your opinion on the Santos will change that much, but maybe have a look at some of the models on a strap and see what you think. They have these quick change systems for changing straps and they normally come with a coujple of different colours to make them a bit more versatile, so you never know. I really like the new black versions that are coming out:
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