Reply With QuoteNah, but you know why!Originally Posted by CatalystGuy
Now there are more details out about this new vehicle and it’s possible to see what it looks like, is anyone tempted to take the plunge next year when they start selling?
Here’s the latest utube video:
https://youtu.be/yZVYpdoqFow
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Nah, but you know why!
Its a strange mix of Defender, Santana, G Wagen and something else. It just doesn't look right to me.
I bet it will be North of £30K.
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It was on pistonheads front page this week, someone who knows told me it is to expensive compared to the defender and the army have already ordered the defender
Is that supposed to fill the gap left by the last Defender? Apart from the fact that such projects rarely make it real production, what the heck is going on with the looks? It looks like a Chinese clone of a Lada Niva bolted onto an old Defender.
If the MOD won't buy it, and they won't, who the hell is going to throw their money at something so niche and challenging looking from an unknown manufacturer?
Not too keen on the looks, but maybe once they get going and iron out the niggles as technically it should be very good. And yes, I do go off road.
Betting seems to be nearer £50k for the first-run LWB.
Agreed. £60k plus. And for one knocking on the door of a proper car, £90k plus.
Get a properly built and purposed one.
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Since INEOS became sponsor of the Mercedes F1 team a while back, I think it's safe to assume that there will be a Mercedes engine under the bonnet.
Styling-wise, I think it looks great. About the negative comments on its styling: would this have been announced by LR as the New Defender, I think that everybody would have loved it. "Oh it shoots the Defender in the 21st century, finally!" and that sort of words.
INEOS is a very clever company endorsing and developing in-numerous innovations in a of lot branches. Their sponsorship is not only for their name and logo on a cycling team, an America's Cup racer and Mercedes F1. It's also about technology flowing back into the company. That will echo back in the price of the car. It's now targeted at those who need a 4x4 and not a Chelsea tractor. I wouldn't be surprised when INEOS markets this for farmers etc in a 'special style': an 'UV': a stripped car for those who need it, at a stripped price. It will sell like hot cakes.
M
On the first point, it will be a BMW sourced engine.
Last edited by Skyman; 4th July 2020 at 18:55.
Source?
Try PH from earlier in the week. Engines.
Yes, found it. Thanks. Amazed that they're on board with Mercedes F1. As in: 'We support what you do with the F1 (technology) but we go to the competition for our engines.'
BMW was announced as the engine supplier over a year ago
https://www.ineos.com/news/shared-ne...ship-with-bmw/
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-grenadier-4x4
I’m on the mailing list out of curiosity and a slim chance I may buy one if the price is right. I quite like the looks and the engineering effort seems to indicate it is for real and not list a stunt.
Ive had lots of LR’s but JLR seem to have left me behind after the Disco 4 but I still hanker after something modern, rugged and sensibly priced. This could be it, although I have my doubts.
I think a darker colour and maybe some fiddling with the grille/bumper would help it enormously. Not sure what can be done about the tail-lights though!
Stolen from elsewhere, spot the minor amendment
Talking about suppliers apparently the chassis is coming from Toyota, who know a thing or two about proper 4x4s! As I said earlier technically it should be very good.
I’ve put my name down to be ‘invited’ to buy one of the first whatever that means.
Think I have convinced the wife to replace her discovery sport with one....
I’m expecting it to be £50k with the petrol B58 BMW engine
Ladder frame is by GestampStolen from elsewhere, spot the minor amendment
Talking about suppliers apparently the chassis is coming from Toyota, who know a thing or two about proper 4x4s! As I said earlier technically it should be very good.
"History
Gestamp was founded in 1997 with the goal of being a global supplier with a focus on technology. Since that time, it has grown steadily, progressively adding new products and technologies"
Axles by Carraro, agricultural specialist, suspension developed by Magna ( build the G Wagon), gearbox ZF.
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Last edited by gerard; 4th July 2020 at 22:01.
Google-Fu reveals Gestamp supplies Toyota; I guess that’s what the chassis quote elsewhere was referencing.
Not for front line duties.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Can’t see farmers buying them, too expensive for a utility and not the name for the poseurs. Anyone wanting something ugly and exclusive can buy the G-wagen.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Still, they are the people who're targeted by INEOS when you look at their YT vids. The interior (I haven't seen it yet) will reveil the real target group I suppose. Posh or sparesly furbished ('vegan leather' = 21st century vinyl) like the old Defender.
Perhaps so. I haven’t seen any figures but the new Defender seems to be getting more common around here.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Looks promising - buying one would be a different proposition, involving support, dealer network, price, availability, usability etc.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Not even sure if I've seen one yet, so easy to confuse with other LR models.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
How can anybody be interested in this? A blank piece of paper and all they can come up with is something that looks like the OLD Land Rover Defender. The only difference with this is that they won’t be spewing out plumes of smoke like every Defender that’s still on the road - but that’s down to BMW and ZF, not Ineos...
Missed opportunity.
Form follows function, you simply ask yourself "what is it that you want it to do"?
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Somewhat true they do share a similar look, but then that’s nothing new with manufacturers.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Quite. But, one of the answers to my questions would be to not look like something that was conceived nearly 40 years ago.
I agree with you regarding all manufacturers having a "brand image" though I'm guilty of believing that LR had a product line with 3 distinct model ranges which is rapidly blurring into one, for many of us the new Defender was a missed opportunity of epic proportions.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
No argument from me - but you only have to look at something as simple as a divers watch, what it's going to do very much dictates how it looks and works, I've posted this before but it seems to prove a point..
Last edited by number2; 5th July 2020 at 09:25.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I see what you’re saying but Suzuki have simply done a fabulous job of evolving their own vehicle which itself dates back to 1970 - at a price point which is £25k+ lower than Ineos‘ creation.No argument from me - but you only have to look at something as simple as a divers watch, what it's going to do very much dictates how it looks and works, I've posted this before but it seems to prove a point..
But, from a totally design based perspective, you have a point.
Compared to the new Defender it’s a beauty! It would be interesting to see it’s off road ability even though the majority will never see a bit of mud in its life.
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I agree that LR seem to be going down that route, it probably is based on cost and a wish to share components in the range perhaps. Also buyers are changing as well, and the markets that they sold into changing with them.
Oh dear, starting to sound like ‘the good old days’ !
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I like it - a lot.
I do think however that, as far as the agricultural industry is concerned, the opportunity to fill the apparent LR gap closed a long time ago.
Farmers are not going to switch from 4x4 pick-ups any time soon. Unless of course the Grenadier is on a par price wise - which it won't be, I'm fairly sure.
Does therefore beg the question of who will buy it.
We'll see...
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I don’t get it.
I like the Suzuki and it looks to have evolved but the Ineos seems like a 20th century solution.
Big engine, heavy chassis... it will weigh more than a full-fat Range Rover
Simple? No. Legally it will need ABS and airbags and they all need ECUs. So will the engine, and the emissions system, and the lights because they look like they’re using LEDs, and and and...
Some people think this will be a rufty tufty replacement for a Defender. If it is going to be used on public roads it can’t be. I’m not sure it will even meet pedestrian impact regs.
The Japanese have the reliable/affordable 4x4 market cornered, I wonder where Ineos are going with this. Good they’re building them in Wales, but they have a sister plant in Portugal...
Isn't the Welsh factory on hold?
Yes - France is looking likely.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I believe the whole point of it looking the way it does is because the owner of Ineos tried to buy the Defender production line from JLR to keep building the car but they said no, so he has built his own. I think it's great and still think it's a great shame JLR chucked away the old Defender to make another massive and massively heavy SUV, 99.99% of which will likely ever see anything more onerous than a damp field to park in at the school sports day. Down here in the depths of Hampshire I see old Defenders all the time and there's a massive community around them. A lot are still used for work too, mainly tree surgeons, estate workers and gardeners. I can see a big following from the people who love the Defender and Series LRs but aren't interested in the new blob JLR have produced. Off-road capability, the rugged looks of the original Land Rover and decent engines and running gear - what's not to love?
"A man of little significance"
They've certainly drummed up enough hype around what they plan to do so maybe it will work for them.
A pity Suzuki have pulled it from the UK market despite a two year order book for it.
I really like it.
The problem with the Japanese 4x4'as is that they haven't kept pace with the EU car makers. I'd love a properly updated Toyota Landcruiser, but they are still using fairly old tech (not always a bad thing, but things have moved on), and the prices are still crazy for the current model!
It's just a matter of time...
Good spread of views on this vehicle.
I’ve put me name down for the specs/prices for a further look.
I hope it sells well so the company gets enough revenue to add other models and maybe start to create a significant uk automotive company.
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Aren’t people looking a little bit Home Counties centric on this? The Defender sold massively world wide, it’s only opposition was the Toyota and to some extent the Jeep. If the product is right this will do the same.
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Given the funds this is what I'd have (in green too).. bit pricey for the current G at the moment though! We looked at the new Defender earlier this year and ended up with a 1 year old Discovery 5, heavily specced. I'd certainly consider the Grenadier when we change. Shame it's unlikely the Bronco will come to the UK too.Get a properly built and purposed one.
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Kiss of death if they do this.
One of the many things alienating people from the Deafener [sic] is its Slovakian origin.
Well that and the fact it' a giant cop-out...
The new Jimny looks fab in real life. Sadly, Suzuki isn't up to pace with the European emission rules. As a result, the Dutch government sanctions the Jimny with a lot of anti-pollution tax. The Jimny with its current engine is far too expensive for its use and practicality. 26k euros here for the cheapest version. A cleaner engine and 18 - 20K euro for the cheapest version-price tag would proof it to be unbeatable in the sales.
The Jimmy's 3 star NCAP rating also isn't helping it.
Gestamp CEO:
”We invested quite heavily there in the last three years and now all these projects are ramping up — for example, in South Carolina for BMW with the launches of all the SUVs. This is also true for Daimler in Alabama. We invested in a very important program for Fiat Chrysler in Upper Michigan for the launch of the Dodge Ram and invested heavily in supporting the manufacturing of the VW Atlas SUV in Chattanooga.”
It's just a matter of time...
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