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Thread: Pillar Drills

  1. #1
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    Pillar Drills

    My Axminster pillar drill from the ark recently broke. Well the drill didn't break but the joint of the arm that holds the table did so I am keen on a new one. Any experts on drills here that can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Record.

  3. #3
    I recently got one of these for home, seems to do the job, I have a much larger one at work though.

    https://www.homebase.co.uk/ryobi-390...dp102l_p397232

  4. #4
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    I have a Bosch PBD 40, absolutely love it.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    If the casting has cracked well worth speaking with a local welder-fabricator.
    Last edited by Bry1975; 1st July 2020 at 14:04.

  6. #6
    Definitely try to repair what you have - modern stuff is either megabucks (and generally only 3 phase) or poor quality.

    Otherwise, see if you can pick up something old and wonderful. A 1950s Meddings would be hard to beat, and they can still provide spares.

  7. #7
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    I would normally want to repair but this drill has had me cursed since the beginning. Iíll admit Drilling is not my strong point but Iíve struggled with this Chinese Axminster since the beginning. I want to buy British and have found a potentially good unit which I am currently researching. The Warco 2F.
    Thanks for the pointers gents - it helped..

  8. #8
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    These guys are excellent to deal with.
    gandmtools.co.uk

  9. #9
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    Yes they are great. Thatís where I got the first drill 😂

    Mostly 3 phase stuff though.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    I would normally want to repair but this drill has had me cursed since the beginning. Iíll admit Drilling is not my strong point but Iíve struggled with this Chinese Axminster since the beginning. I want to buy British and have found a potentially good unit which I am currently researching. The Warco 2F.
    Thanks for the pointers gents - it helped..
    I think youíll find the modern Warco stuff is Chinese, ditto the recommendations for g@m tools
    I have a floor mounted record one that seems pretty good and it is an earlier British made one
    Meddings or progress great kit if you can find one.

  11. #11
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    I hear you on the warco. Checked the site. Awesome drills but all 3 phase
    Last edited by brendano; 1st July 2020 at 17:30.

  12. #12
    Record are Chinese too nowadays.

    For a British drill look at Meddings. They aren't cheap (and no idea of budget here)!

  13. #13
    Master johnbaz's Avatar
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    A fella at our works broke his bench vise in two, He brought it to work and I took it in to the welding bay, I asked who was the best with iron, I was told unanimously it was a lad called David Willie, I went to see him, He told me to go to the grinder and bevel the edges so there's a V when the two parts were put together!

    I went back and he sad to come back after snap time, I did- Honestly, It didn't need any grinding whatsoever, He somehow managed to get the depth spot on flush with the surface, My mate was happy as Larry as he though he was going to have to buy another!!

    Another time a friend on British Blades forum asked if I could get two pieces of steel tigged together, One pice was damascus (Can't recall the teels that were used) He wanted a piece of O1 fitting to make a small blade, I took ot to the welders, They made a right mess of it- They're qualified to weld on all sorts too!

    John..

  14. #14
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    you can't polish a turd my man and the drill I had was a turd for drilling steel. Great on wood and great charm but spring and ball bearing steel is just too much for it.

    It broke because I was pushing too hard - imagine that !!

  15. #15
    Master johnbaz's Avatar
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    Forgot to say, I've a few bench drills and the best came from Aldi!

    It has a 500w motor where most of the hobby ones are 370w, It also has a 5/8" chuck (around 16mm) where most are 1/2" (13mm), It's well made by comparison with the others that I have too even though it's probably made in one of the same factories!



    Just searched for them and when they were last in the stores last year, They had been modernised!!, Still the same specs though..



    John

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    you can't polish a turd my man and the drill I had was a turd for drilling steel. Great on wood and great charm but spring and ball bearing steel is just too much for it.

    It broke because I was pushing too hard - imagine that !!

    Ball bearing steel is HSS, You'd need to use a carbide drill for them (And much coolant) as they're the same hardness as the BB's!, The cheapo chinese pillar drills aren't industrial (The price says that!) and are hobbyist kit!


    John

  17. #17
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    I need to bite the bullet or no knives are going to get made. The warco is 750w - should do the job

  18. #18
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    I try anneal before I drill and use lube (always a good idea😂) but this is a thick piece of steel. Main challenge is to take weight off - lots of holes do that well !!

  19. #19
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Aldi stuff I'd often re-branded Schepach gear, at a significant discount.

  20. #20

    re

    Acfirb seem decent.

  21. #21
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    Cutting oil, ..............cutting oil...............slow speed, keep pressure on.

  22. #22
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Most if not all of the reasonably priced pillar drills will be made in a few Chinese factories and be very similar with only small cosmetic differences. They are ok for small hobby stuff and drilling wood when accuracy isn't important.

    If you want accuracy and to be able to turn out nice things working with metal my recommendation would be a small mill. The headstock bearings are much much stronger and there will be no discernible play which is whats required for drilling steels properly. Also most will have electronically adjustable speed control, so much easier than fiddling about changing belts on pulleys.

    I use a Sieg one by Arc Euro Trade and the difference between even a small mill and a pillar drill is huge. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...lling-Machines

    Yes mills seem expensive in comparison to the cheaper pillar drills, but the advantages seriously out weigh the cost if you intend using them seriously.

    I also do some milling with it but only small scale stuff mostly or I would need a bigger model. However for knife making it is perfectly adequate. Obviously I always drill everything before I heat treat it and it's still in it's annealed state. Some of the air hardening steels can be a problem if you let them overheat because of too high a speed or pushing too hard, the steel work hardens and then the drill bit melts! It's letting the drill bit cut without overheating which is the answer.

    Blade blank drilled for weight loss and to allow the epoxy to connect through the handle to both scales.



    Milling the relief on some titanium scales for a penknife/folder. Tough old stuff!



    End result...

    https://i.postimg.cc/qvYNTkTJ/IMG-2744.jpg

    After jeweling the inside face.....

    Cuidich 'n Righ

  23. #23
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    thank you sir. That is exceptionally helpful information

    I was looking at those meddings and thinking how to get a converter etc. I will now go down a mill hole..

  24. #24
    I too have a Sieg mill (smallest, badged, funnily enough, Axminster) that I use mostly for drilling, but sometimes for light milling. For accurate, precise, small milling, I would be more inclined to use the milling setup on my Sherline.

    About converters. I had some funny problems with the motor on my Sherline lathe. It still worked, but didn "feel" right, even after I changed the brushes. So, I decided to get out my 3 phase VEM motor (0.25 KW) and Siemens Sinamics G110 converter (1 to 3 phase). I hooked it up to a (on/off -- dead man) foot pedal and DIY control box (direction and speed). I like this setup more. It is nice to just flip a switch for direction control (ramps down, switches direction, then ramps up), have the ramp up and down times I want, wider range of speeds, etc. I also discovered that pulleys and drive belts have come quite a distance from the last time I set this up. Locking bush pulleys are way cool, as are link pulley belts.

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Most if not all of the reasonably priced pillar drills will be made in a few Chinese factories and be very similar with only small cosmetic differences. They are ok for small hobby stuff and drilling wood when accuracy isn't important.

    If you want accuracy and to be able to turn out nice things working with metal my recommendation would be a small mill. The headstock bearings are much much stronger and there will be no discernible play which is whats required for drilling steels properly. Also most will have electronically adjustable speed control, so much easier than fiddling about changing belts on pulleys.

    I use a Sieg one by Arc Euro Trade and the difference between even a small mill and a pillar drill is huge. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...lling-Machines

    Yes mills seem expensive in comparison to the cheaper pillar drills, but the advantages seriously out weigh the cost if you intend using them seriously.

    I also do some milling with it but only small scale stuff mostly or I would need a bigger model. However for knife making it is perfectly adequate. Obviously I always drill everything before I heat treat it and it's still in it's annealed state. Some of the air hardening steels can be a problem if you let them overheat because of too high a speed or pushing too hard, the steel work hardens and then the drill bit melts! It's letting the drill bit cut without overheating which is the answer.

    Blade blank drilled for weight loss and to allow the epoxy to connect through the handle to both scales.



    Milling the relief on some titanium scales for a penknife/folder. Tough old stuff!



    End result...

    https://i.postimg.cc/qvYNTkTJ/IMG-2744.jpg

    After jeweling the inside face.....


    SIEG 1 is out of stock. What are your thoughts on this

    https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-mach...g-machine.html

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfrazier View Post
    I too have a Sieg mill (smallest, badged, funnily enough, Axminster) that I use mostly for drilling, but sometimes for light milling. For accurate, precise, small milling, I would be more inclined to use the milling setup on my Sherline.

    About converters. I had some funny problems with the motor on my Sherline lathe. It still worked, but didn "feel" right, even after I changed the brushes. So, I decided to get out my 3 phase VEM motor (0.25 KW) and Siemens Sinamics G110 converter (1 to 3 phase). I hooked it up to a (on/off -- dead man) foot pedal and DIY control box (direction and speed). I like this setup more. It is nice to just flip a switch for direction control (ramps down, switches direction, then ramps up), have the ramp up and down times I want, wider range of speeds, etc. I also discovered that pulleys and drive belts have come quite a distance from the last time I set this up. Locking bush pulleys are way cool, as are link pulley belts.

    Best wishes,
    Bob
    thanks for the input Bob - what do yo make ?

    Looks like the SIEG is the way to go ..

  27. #27
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    SIEG 1 is out of stock. What are your thoughts on this

    https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-mach...g-machine.html
    Looks a decent machine but I have no personal experience of them. It does have the MT2 taper fitting for collets to change from a chuck to collets to hold bits which is the most common. Are there any reviews online?

    I have the Sieg XT2 but it doesn't look like they have the one with MT2 taper head in stock, could be worth ringing them or emailing. https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...-HiTorque-Mill
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  28. #28
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    I found having the spindle taper of MT2 fitting made it easy to get collets and holders to fit, others may have different experiences, would be interested to know.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I found having the spindle taper of MT2 fitting made it easy to get collets and holders to fit, others may have different experiences, would be interested to know.
    For the Mill/Drill I use either a really big MT2 16mm drill chuck, or MT2 ER16 collet chucks for milling, and precise drilling. I also have an ER16 collet chuck on a faceplate for the Sherline, used for workholding.

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  30. #30
    As with watches one is never enough, both machines are R8 spindle which means loads of accessories.


  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    thanks for the input Bob - what do yo make ?

    Looks like the SIEG is the way to go ..
    On the mill/drill? No one kind of thing regularly, but I do use it regularly for various different kinds of one off stuff. For example, I don't like standard trays for working on watches, so I made some out of wood. A simple block of wood with circular cut outs just the right size to take cartridge paper discs at the bottom (given the sizes of my punches). Similarly for a tool holder, not elegant, but useful (pictured below). Most recent was just a small (25x40mm) bit of wood I needed to be a particular thickness (sort of large washer). I don't have a thicknesser, so just used a fly cutter on the mill. On the lathe? Again, lots of useful little things, including watch dials.



    Best wishes,
    Bob
    Last edited by rfrazier; 2nd July 2020 at 13:31.

  32. #32
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    As with watches one is never enough, both machines are R8 spindle which means loads of accessories.

    Is it easier to get accessories etc for R8 over MT2? Just wondering as Sieg only have the R8 in the X2 at the moment.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  33. #33
    For work holding, rather than cutter holding, 5C would be nice. :)

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Is it easier to get accessories etc for R8 over MT2? Just wondering as Sieg only have the R8 in the X2 at the moment.
    I have never looked for MT2 spindle tooling because I have always used R8 in small mills such has Bridgeports etc and got on well with it and its not expensive.

    Just do a search on the likes of ebay for the two and compare the hits and prices.

    I use MT1, MT2, MT3 drills/reamers in adapters in the mill and on the lathe (Myford S7).

  35. #35
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    I would go R8 over MT2. There is loads of it about and good value. As already said do a search on eBay, loads will come up.
    You can either go for a set of R8 collets in either metric or imperial and or a ER32 collet chuck and a set of collets.
    The advantage with the R8 collets is they go direct in the spindle so a milling cutter does not have any overhang. Especially good for rigidity and you gain a lot of space on a small machine.
    Really depends on you budget. I have had lots of extra bits over the years but don't think I have anything left.
    If you need any hss milling cutters though drop me a pm I can probably sort some out for you. Most of what I use on the machining centres is carbide so rarely use hss anymore.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  36. #36
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    So this is a whole new world to me. I am angling toward the sieg series 1 - they are getting stock tomorrow

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    So this is a whole new world to me. I am angling toward the sieg series 1 - they are getting stock tomorrow
    I have had my first mill (Seig X2 Plus) for 7 years now and its ran for 100s of hours mainly at top speed (2500 rpm) because I tend to use solid carbide cutters/drills all the time and it has never let me down once.

    I changed the two spindle bearings (over due) a couple of weeks ago, half a days job and the ideal time to give the machine a bit of TLC and deep clean.

    When I got it I removed the table and gibs so that I could stone the surfaces and did a couple of other small mods to the table and also changed the hand wheels as I dident like the ones it came with.

    Treated with respect and not bullied ( I find it best to take two or three cuts rather than try to push the machine as at the end of the day it is a hobby/toy mill) it could do you proud.

  38. #38
    Master johnbaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    SIEG 1 is out of stock. What are your thoughts on this

    https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-mach...g-machine.html

    I recently read a thread on another forum about Warco tools, Someone showed the bed of a lathe that had a hole in it!, Another fella bought a £4,000 Warco lathe that hadallen screws in that stuck pout too much and were hand ground off to fit the part!

    I didn't know that Warco were made in China, They're generally on tool forums looked down upon

    EDIT- Just found the pic and copied it to my imgur!


    The iron hasn't run for some reason and left the hole yet they carried on and sent out for sale

    I've worked in a heavy foundry for forty years and anything like that would have been cut up for scrap!


    John..
    Last edited by johnbaz; 3rd July 2020 at 14:36.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbaz View Post
    I recently read a thread on another forum about Warco tools, Someone showed the bed of a lathe that had a hole in it!, Another fella bought a £4,000 Warco lathe that hadallen screws in that stuck pout too much and were hand ground off to fit the part!

    I didn't know that Warco were made in China, They're generally on tool forums looked down upon

    EDIT- Just found the pic and copied it to my imgur!


    The iron hasn't run for some reason and left the hole yet they carried on and sent out for sale

    I've worked in a heavy foundry for forty years and anything like that would have been cut up for scrap!


    John..
    Thanks John
    Very helpful. I am about to pull the trigger on SX1LP - they are in stock

  40. #40
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendano View Post
    Thanks John
    Very helpful. I am about to pull the trigger on SX1LP - they are in stock
    They look pretty good but the SX2 has double the power at 500w. Depends how much you need it.

    Iíve never regretted buying too much tool, but have regretted buying too little!

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    They look pretty good but the SX2 has double the power at 500w. Depends how much you need it.

    Iíve never regretted buying too much tool, but have regretted buying too little!
    100% agree, sometime ago I bought a mini mill as a spare for little jobs if my other machine was tied up, total waste of money.

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