Reply With QuoteThanks for this. Enjoyed this read. So what have you currently settled on? Is the 2254 still with you?
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This is kind of an SOTC, but with watches that I have moved on and reasons why. Excuse me for the not that great pictures.
Zoretto Jota
In 2018 I was big into conducting research on Jenny Caribbean watches, but could never find the right watch. The condition was always too poor or the price too high, but most often both. I got the Zoretto Jota to scratch that itch.
The Zoretto is an ok or good watch at best, but it is also not that expensive. The finish on mine was lower than on most lower-end seikos. There were rough edges, badly polished surfaces and outright sharp edges where they don’t belong.
The bracelet was not that great, but I couldn't say why back then. It eventually dawned at me, that I don’t bond well with a bracelet with little to no taper. The main reason why I flipped this was the odd case shape and overall not liking the watch. I bought this for 450 euros on ebay and it went in as a partial trade towards SLA019.
From this era I have still one watch to try, the 39mm Super Submarino, either Jenny, Pikap, Thermidor, Tucah or Hanowa, but the condition of these are often not that great.
Tag Heuer 2000
In summer 2019 I was conducting research on the monnin cased Heuer 1000s as I came across this. It was relatively cheap, but back then I thought that I would always bond with thin watches. I was wrong. Ever since this watch, I haven’t put much weight to the thickness of the watch, but more to the overall shape, thickness and lug to lug along with the case shape.
When I got the watch I was immediately bothered by the non-matching minute and hour hands, which apparently is relatively common for these watches due to parts being from different manufacturers and or service parts. Despite the discoloration, I wore the watch for about 8 months on and off to see if I bonded with it.
I bought the watch for about 400 euros and sold for about 300.
Zodiac Monnin Two-Tone
Bought this watch for 250 euros. I didn’t know what I was thinking. Wore it once or twice and moved it on. The main reason was the worn-out gold coloring and the worn out gilt text. Since I didn’t have this for long, there is not much to write home about.
In conclusion, I’m willing to try a two-tone watch again within the next 20 years, but it’ll have to be a two-tone Datejust. And preferably at an AD as a gesture of friendship after smalltalk over the general unavailability of stainless steel watches. This way I can leave the watch for the next poor sucker.
Zodiac Red Dot 38mm
This is a cousin of the 38mm Heuer 1000s. I think I paid about 400€ for it. This watch gets touted as a 38mm watch, but it is more like a 37mm. And while the Heuer 1000 is easiest to find in quartz, this also comes with the ETA 2824 movement. Now this is a watch that I could have kept. I had many incomings at the time and decided to move it on.
In the end it was a decision based on money: spend 200€ on the service and potentially never see the money again, or move it on. I moved it on.
Seiko SLA019
About this time I got interested in the MM300. For some reason the green version spoke to me the most and I had just missed out on the limited edition batch. I found the watch locally on facebook and traded cash + the Zoretto Jota for this.
I really, really, really tried to like the watch but couldn’t. When I received it, I was immediately put off by the bracelet, which I could never get to fit my wrist no matter how I tried. To combat the bracelet disappointment, I ordered a crafter blue strap and an additional clasp. This made the watch wearable, but I was already subconsciously done with the watch.
When people say that the SLA019 is beautiful, they are correct. The colors vary from forest green to black, to bright shiny green. Also, when people say that the MM300 case is a big chunk of steel, they mean it. The watch is hard to describe. It doesn’t wear that big, but you know you have a substantial chunk of steel on your wrist when lugging this around.
After the Heuer 2000 I was open to bigger watches, but this was another wrong turn for me. The problem with this watch for me is that the caseback (there is no caseback as it is monocoque) is flat. My wrist bone is aligned so that watches with a slightly protruding caseback tend to wear better for me. To demonstrate this better: when a watch is on a flat surface, the lugs should be slightly up in the air for the watch to wear nicely for me. This combined with the hefty size, meant that wearing this watch was a slightly uncomfortable experience.
I flipped this on the forums for the BB58 on leather and nato.
Seiko Alpinists
The green Alpinist SARB017 was actually the first watch for me and I bought it before any of the watches listed above. I think the SARB017 is a good watch, but it lacked something for me. I never really wore it. I even got the jubilee from strapcode and the original Seiko oyster. Luckily I sold this during the SARB017 boom so I got my money out.
The 4s15s triggered some kind of collecting mania in me and I just had to have them all. At this point I had also taken a loss from nearly all the watches that I had moved on. I’m ashamed to admit that the green 4s15 red alpinist was also the first watch I made a profit on. When I listed it on chronotrader for a similar price I had seen them go, it sold nearly immediately even though I thought the price was a little high and the calendar wouldn’t turn overnight.
I like the Alpinists, but not enough to keep them. Why? I don’t know. I also got the 4s15-7000 diver, which I got serviced and have kept. The remaining two reds I sold to forum member Wallasey Runner, who was probably also going through some stint of collector mania. Not sure if he has also moved them on.
Selling Alpinists is also real fun. The Seiko collectors treat them like they’re a redsub or a RDRSD and ask all sorts of funny stuff and then don’t buy.
Zodiac Red Dot Chronograph
This watch is a fun story. I bought this in an auction as non-working for 600€ including shipping and taxes. It didn’t run and the bracelet was broken. I managed to source another bracelet (this required buying a bracelet and Zodiac GMT master homage to get a similar finish on the middle links) for it and took extension links from the other one. I spent 100€ for the bracelet and 400€ to get it running and thoroughly serviced.
For a long time, I thought to myself that this was a great find and I’d keep the watch forever. However, the second I got the watch back from service, I realized: “this was fun, but not for me.” I wore the watch for a few days and then sold it to a person who has since passed it on. The watch fit really well on my wrist and I really liked the 90s design. The bracelet is a typical Heuer / Zodiac bracelet and made out of good steel although slightly rattly.
Zodiac Quartz GMT
I bought this solely for the bracelet, wore it a few times and then moved it on. I can’t say much about it other than the Quartz movement seemed quite rare.
Tudor BB58
I flipped the SLA019 for this. I was initially in love with this watch for a couple of months, but it wore off quite fast. I had tried it on the bracelet and decided that it is not for me so I got the model on the nato strap. This watch is nearly perfect, other than its not a 5513. My error was to get this watch to scratch the 5513 itch, but it didn’t do that. I also didn’t end up getting the 5513 since I saw it in person after this watch, and to me 16610 with the SEL bracelet is the perfect submariner.
Many good things have been said about the watch and they’re probably all true. The watch is slim, but I already had the 2254.50 in my collection and I ended up preferring it over this. If I didn’t have the Omega Seamaster, which is another Nato shark, I’d probably own the BB58 still.
Technos Sky Diver
I found this incorrectly labeled at an auction. It came with an original Technos tropic with branded buckle, inner box and outer box. The watch itself is kind of bland and the particular type has been executed better by Heuer and even Technos itself among many others.
This story is somewhat funny, because I already had the same watch, in better condition, with box, outer box and original papers. I quickly realized what a fool I am and moved it on.
Conclusion
With these watches, I have learned the following things:
- It is very difficult to know from pictures alone whether I’ll like a watch or not.
- I have a collector personality trait.
- It is very expensive to send watches around.
- It is very hard to even break even from this hobby, unless you advertise to the point you become annoying to others. (and not making profit is OK)
- Overall, if you don’t get dumb watches or new watches, watches can be relatively cheap hobby. Even cheap watches easily tie a lot of capital.
- Macro photography is hard and takes effort.
- IPhone photography is hard and takes effort.
- I like the hunt.
- I like the hustle.
Thanks for this. Enjoyed this read. So what have you currently settled on? Is the 2254 still with you?
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Can't remember the last time I enjoyed reading a SOTC this much, great stuff.
‘I have a collector personality trait’. And that’s the story of TZ in a nutshell.
I lived in Finland for some years; what a wonderful country.
Great write up. The two Alpinists are long gone, the White is in Taiwan and the Black is somewhere in the US.
I did go a bit bonkers and got up to 11 Alpinists at one point, but one thing I have learnt on here over the years from painful experience is that collecting Seiko is like standing in pub toilet at 11:30 on a Friday evening, both enable you to watch your hard earned cash flush down the pan. Anyway, onwards and upwards.
Good post. Enjoyed reading that.
You're not unique in as much the observations you've made regarding collecting is the same for many on here.
The chase, that's whats gets most of us going, then its the arrival, then its the enjoyment it brings, then the low sets in as the enjoyment wears off and its off again to try to do it all over again. Most here spend their entire time flipping, very few stick because there is always something else to try. This is not exclusive to budget either, some of the watches i have enjoyed the most have been the cheapest.
I'm still with the 2254.50. Initially I got lows from it due to the non-tapering bracelet. I was considering to sell it in order to get a watchco 165.024 or 166.024, but then I saw it in real life and realised I prefer the 2254.50. It was few days later when I removed the bracelet, put it on a nato strap and haven't gone back.Originally Posted by woodacre1983
The case back of the 2254.50 doesn't protrude, but on a nato it works quite well on my wrist. I can't say I won't ever sell it, but for now it is one of my go-to watches.
The hardest part for me is dealing with annoying people, which for some reason seem to populate the Seiko facebook groups. 85% of buyers on facebook will barrage the seller with negative comments thinking you'll eventually send the watch for free.
When I initially listed the Red Alpinists on the Finnish Seiko Buy/Sell FB, some guy announced his group ragequit in the comments, because someone dared to ask so much for a Seiko. It was pleasurable to update the sales post one by one once they got sold.
I enjoyed the read! I especially agree with the sentiment, that you can easily tie up a lot of money in the 'low end' - but that is also part of the journey, the idea of consolidating and moving up as we sanitise ourselves to particular price points.
Personally the hunt isn't the be it and end all - nowadays each purchase I make (and not that many) are all very well considered into how it fits my collection. Once I go to that stage, it meant quite a few watches went that did not fit into the buckets, but it now I've got a rationalised collection (to me at least....). It deters me from buying and enjoying!
Oh and I do like this article about 'avoiding getting hurt', ok on a different level of watches to us mere mortals, but an enjoyable read - https://quillandpad.com/2019/01/05/l...-hurt-reprise/
Last edited by crazyp; 29th June 2020 at 15:50.
Not just Seiko, I think it's a FB thing. A lot of timewasters too, send you a message asking how much it is when the price is clearly stated in the listing. I had the same issues as you. When I sold the Black Alpinist I sent the guy about 60 images, details of how he could track it whilst it was still in the UK. I even messaged him on the day USPS said it was out for delivery. Not a word, no confirmation of receipt, no thanks, nothing.
People moan about e-bay, but at least it's more straight forward.
My selling days are over, I closed my FB account and in a few months time when the 180 day period passes from those sales I will close my e-bay and PayPal accounts as well.
A small update. Since the initial post, I got more clarity on what I wanted and sold two watches:
Omega Seamaster Professional 2254.50
This is a watch I never thought about selling until I got cal 2500 Planet Ocean. I can't get on with Omega bracelets due to the lack of taper. To me the 1910 / 930 bracelet is too "heavy" for such a petite and thin watch. While the 1610/930 bracelet is generally well received, it felt a little too substantial for such a thin and relatively petite watch. This watch is excellent and I found myself wearing it often on a NATO strap, but it left me craving for more. Once I had the 2201.50 that I recently bought from Sales Corner in my hands, I knew what to do.
Because of the case shape, I'm pretty sure I won't get a classic 2531.80 either. Of the watches that I have sold, this has actually been on the wrist compared to the others. Since the 2220.80 is 13mm thick, I have been contemplating whether it wears better than the 2254.50. It'd love to see the side profile to see how the caseback is relative to the lug bottoms. With 2201.50 the case back protrudes beyond the lug bottoms giving me nearly perfect wear.
Seiko Turtle SRP777
I bought this watch because it was cheap on EBay in the fall of 2019 as I wanted to try it. I wore it to do outdoor activities and when playing with kids and it served that purpose well. It is hard to say why I never wore this Turtle as it wears well for such a big watch. Not sure if the watch lacked character or whether it was obscured by much more interesting watches that I have had. I also had a bit of a problem finding straps to it, since it is the only watch with 22mm lug width.
Until something big happens, I'm done with new Seiko. However, if my paths cross with a good condition 6309 or 6306, I won't say no.
Last edited by ollipekka; 8th July 2020 at 04:28.
Fortis Cosmonauts Chronograph
Another watch I never thought I'd sell. Very beautiful, good form factor, wears well and it was easy to sell. At 38mm, it is not particularly large watch, but also not small. This watch is about as big as my GMT Master, which is larger in diameter because the bezel extends beyond the case. Fortis however, wears a little thicker, but to my surprise, it actually made the watch sit better. I think I have a preference towards thicker watches.
Zodiac Monnin Red Dot Quartz
I had to make some room for an incoming. I had known for a long time that when time comes, this will have to go. With this watch, I lost only reasonable amount of money, so it is easy to admit: 118 euros and a battery change. Beautiful watch, slightly thin, wears well on a Nato, but I have other Monnin cased watches that I prefer to wear over this. It is also in too good of condition to turn into a beater. Every time I decide to pick a Monnin, I looked at this and Heuer 980.006, did a few 'umms' and few 'aahhs' and picked up the Heuer. I felt slight remorse about selling it and made a DIBS deal with the person who bought it.
I have now a long list of watches that I need to service and a few projects.
After completing a project or two and a service or two, I will see whether I have still desire for these:
- Modern Speedmaster, either FOIS or normal.
- Tritium Sinn 103 - (Valjoux 7733 or 7760)
- IWC Aquatimer 3536
- Technos Sky Diver, either Radium dial 30 jewels or Tritium dial.
Great post.
Like especially the “lessons learned” at the end a lot.
Interesting to read that I am not the only one “feeling” the same way with a watch based on irrational elements. Like in real life with a person: first impression (!) counts. Really just a primitive, irrational, instinctively decision coming from the stomach and not really from our brain. Right?
Thank you.
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