Reply With QuoteWhy did you feel the need to kick the guy when he's down, then pretend you were offering genuine advice? Nasty.Originally Posted by oldoakknives
And up he pops.....
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Why did you feel the need to kick the guy when he's down, then pretend you were offering genuine advice? Nasty.
Blimey the bloke wants some helpful tips not to be driven over the edge by that old tat
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Chin up Justin, trying times for everyone myself included, Im furloughed and my industry (Recruitment) is really struggling to the point I wonder if ill have something to go back too, add to that the kids are still at home and that's very very very hard to manage and needs constant attention (I would munch rather go to work) and the lack of human contact outside my own four walls has been very difficult to handle.
I would love to have time on my hands but the kids keep us extremely busy so much so I don't have time to do too much else even if I wanted too and the amount of work the school send home is ridiculous in my opinion I can't see how anyone with a young family could work and home school as its all go!!!
Still rest assured things will be better and stay positive lots of great advice in this thread keep active, set yourself some targets and take pride in your achievements today mine is to teach the 4 year old her times table and do some more tricky words via youtube and then help my 8 year old build a super hero from cardboard items around the house :)
From monty pythons classic Life of Brian - Always look on the bright side of life
Because he is a nasty bit of work who has it in his DNA to bat the man and not the ball. Why is he allowed here to attack individuals and yet is banned from the BP, it does not make sense.
I've not been furloughed but lucky to be able to do 99% of what I could do in the office at home (in fact I'm busier at home).
All I can give is some encouragement for you to get back in shape. I know when you feel low you lose motivation for many things, including keeping active, but if you wrote out an exercise plan or kept a simple diary you could address the issue of putting weight on. Just small steps - maybe walking more, cycling, some push ups, burpees, etc. Increase the amount gradually and record this. It will give you a target to work to and provide a release for the stress and anxiety, both physical and mental, as well as helping you lose some weight and tone up.
A post so good, I quote it in its entirety so it is available again.
Empathy counts for a lot and I find the "man up" type comments deeply frustrating: blokes have a hard enough time admitting that things may not be all sweetness and light, without the feelings of shame that arise when they're told to "man up" and are simply unable to do so. And in case anyone doubts that those feelings exist: they are very, very real, and very, very destructive. I say this as someone whom they have taken to the edge of suicide.
To the OP: my friends who are furloughed have all reported similar feelings. At different times and in different contexts, but the loss of purpose and attendant frustration and depression seem to have got most of them, in the end. I think the fact that you've found a way to give yourself purpose is the most helpful thing you could've done, based on your account of your feelings. One of my mates, whose other half is still working and who doesn't need money, has been volunteering at his local food bank. Not skilled or especially difficult work, not remunerated, but it gives him something to get out of bed for, and as such is really important to him.
Good luck, I'm glad you've found something to keep you shiny-side-up, and I'd reiterate that these feelings (anecdotally at least) don't seem unusual.
Is he banned, thought he chose not to visit?
justin44, how are you holding up today? Have you managed to get our of the house for a walk or some air? It sounds stupid but did you have a shower and a decent breakfast? Sometimes the little things add up and put us in the right direction.
I’ve just got to say that the posts from Seabiscuit and Preachercain (amongst the other helpful and encouraging posts) are the real gold amongst the rock and quartz, full of very good advice and understanding.
I can only add that if you PM me, I’m more than happy to share the fantastic resources/documents that my organisation has put in place for us. Many of my colleagues, although not furloughed, along with myself have struggled to adapt to the ‘new normal’.
You’re definitely not alone and there’s lots of help out there, so please use it.
In the meantime, finding something to do that you can centre the rest of your life around sounds like the right thing to be doing.
Mate i have personnaly witnessed the Gov spend £40,000 of tax payers money flattening a field that had nothing on it. They waste tax payers money like there is no tomorrow.
First and foremost, this really does sound like depression. It may not be, but it's not a bad idea to assume it is.
The most horrible thing about depression is that it really does feel like it is impossible to break out of it. However it is a fact that, overwhelmingly, people do break out of it and one day it all feels better. That might sound impossible right now, but rationally you must know it's true.
There are two good ways to chip away at depression - things that influence the biology directly - make sure you eat and sleep well and regularly. This can be a battle in itself, but it's amazing how much of a difference good sleep hygiene and steady blood sugar can make. There's solid evidence that regular moderate exercise helps too, as does getting into nature, especially into woods. These are simple common-sense things to do that all help each other. I'd start with forcing yourself to go for a decent walk in the woods, maybe with the occasional light jog and stop to enjoy a sight - a view, a flower, you know what you like. Get yourself to bed early a few hours after a decent meal and without any electronic devices in the room, read or listen to spoken radio. All of this will help and all of this does take self discipline. If you feel better after a while then start doing one of those internet exercise classes regularly and start making lists of jobs you really should do. If not, just keep pushing at the basics.
The other half is about the stories we tell ourselves. First, be gentle to yourself. You are far from alone in feeling like this, we are in a situation that is as strange as they come. Reach out to people you know and trust. One of the odd things about depression is the tendency to push people who could help away. If you can take a friend for a walk, so much the better, and if you can talk about how you feel that probably wouldn't hurt, but silence is underrated.
It's probably worth talking to a doctor about the sort of support you can get. Personally I'd avoid chemical interventions for a bunch of reasons, but your mileage may vary. For some it can be an effective short time break that allows you to rearrange stuff and get out of a rut, for others a long term addiction of dubious value. Getting a short course of therapy can be great for sorting out the stories you are telling and the way you are interpreting things. My wife, who works in this area for a living, is a big fan of approaching these sort of problems by treating yourself as a friend you are giving advice to rather than directly talking to yourself - 'what advice would you give to a friend who...' In the same way, it is remarkable how helping others, freely and just for the pleasure of it, can actually both help both of you feel good. There are plenty of ways of doing this. Ultimately if you are feeling depressed having stuff that feels important to do and forcing yourself to do them can be really helpful.
And, by way of fair disclosure, I do know how you feel. We had twins born prematurely who died shortly afterwards. For about a year I held my shit together and helped my wife grieve, and then as she became strong enough to hold me in turn, I spent about six months in depression, which is why I know just how damned hard it is to do the easy stuff and how the simplest things are near impossible even with support. All I can say is good luck and don't give up. It will get better if you give it time. It always does.
Oh, and I second hot showers. Very helpful!
Last edited by M4tt; 29th June 2020 at 14:25.
I've got no useful tips to give you Justin but I hope you are feeling a bit better today and hopefully finding some new hobbies to keep you busy.
All the best mate.
Neil.
Cheers,
Neil.
I didn’t kick him when he was down. You just want to have a go as usual then try to put it on me. Others said far more than me and you ignored it.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Given your form for nasty comments that’s rather ironic, and I didn't 'attack' anyone.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 29th June 2020 at 16:14.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Whatever that means find reasons to stand up and fight
Start being active physical wherever you are
Dont drink
Look after yourself so that you dont feel sad about yourself
Avoid negative people like covid 19
Find a hobby other than boring watches
Take long walks
You are not alone
You are offering nothing to this thread. Why don’t you stay out of it?
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As others have said it sounds like depression mate .
I can only echo what the others have said, i have had a tough year and lost my mum 11 months ago .
What helped was - stayed off the booze- have had 7 bottles of beer in 4 months .
I have been over weight for nearly 18 years. I have now lost 7kg and not over any more after starting with a small jog , I know run or cycle every day .
I took up golf , something to help me zone out and focus.
Can’t tell you how much better a day feels when I’ve started it with a run compared to one without.
All the best
I’m a headteacher and my wife is senior leadership team for a large academy trust chain. We have both been working pretty much flat out throughout lockdown - starting around 8am and finishing about 5pm often with evening work (haven’t missed the commute either side of that too much!)
And I am genuinely not complaining (I’m on full pay after all) because I have realised very clearly that structure and routine is really important for mental well-being as well as purpose.
We both still look forward to the weekend and that is really for our wellbeing and family life. My twelve year old school son has been doing a full days schoolwork every day, and despite initially moaning that his mates were all gaming has since admitted that he likes it too.
I’ve also finished writing a book during this time - a personal goal I set myself. Having a leisure focus is key too.
Structure, routine and purpose. We all need it and it makes us happier.
My advice, for what it is worth, to the OP is to make a list of tasks, challenges, and things to do, and do them. I do understand how just drifting through this period could take heavy mental toll on people, and the way to try and combat that is to achieve some things - could be learning a language, making models, doing art, studying something (there are literally tons of free courses available online), DIY projects, anything you like, but do something every day so that come the evening you don't feel you have simply drifted from one day to the next.
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 29th June 2020 at 21:45.
sorry to hear of your loss - but very wise words regarding exercise. such a mood booster
Thank you
Do you think telling him 'There are many starving and homeless in the world, because of the virus, who would be so envious of your position' is either helpful or thoughtful?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
It might put some perspective to his situation. Sometimes realising what you have can be difficult because you can’t see past what you miss.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I made one comment and have since only replied to posts criticising that comment. Although others were equally forthright with their views.
If this is your only comment you aren’t offering much, but obviously know a bandwagon when you see one.
Oh, really. How many others have disparaged and ridiculed the OP when he is obviously suffering and asking his fellow members for their support and guidance? Thank God his fellow members are not made in your image! If you are ever really having a tough time in your life and seeking help, I hope the response you get is:
"I feel sorry for you, if you have so little in your life to interest you. Perhaps try reading a book or looking up things that interest you on the net. There are many starving and homeless in the world, because of the virus, who would be so envious of your position."
Well since you asked....
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Worry not. The others were noticed.
That doesn't make what you said acceptable.
Just my opinion.
Maybe, maybe not, but my view wasn’t unique, just uniquely picked on.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It was your delivery that differed - directly at the OP and with little sympathy. The others were more general and less personal.
Have a nice day.
My comment was directed at everyone, not just you.
I can't speak for other members.
Really?
So saying “The first thing I would say is that the OP should be grateful that the taxpayer is paying 80% of his salary for what is an act of nature. Be bloody grateful for that alone” was less personal and showed sympathy?
Last edited by oldoakknives; 30th June 2020 at 09:05.
Hi Justin,
There's plenty of good advice on this thread. One thing which hasn't been mentioned that I found useful when I went through depression is Moodscope -> https://www.moodscope.com/
The website is free and the way is works is that you complete a short test every day and and the site sends your mood score to a friend. This way your friend knows whether there's been a sudden drop in mood to contact you. It also allows you to track your mood over time.
Same old, same old.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Justin is clearly struggling and could well benefit from some of the advice and help being offered here. Could the rest of you take your arguments/point scoring elsewhere and leave the thread to its intended use.
Ook, your specialist subject does seem to be playing the victim these days.
Perhaps people just remember all the spade work you put in when you were mostly resident in the Bear Pit.
Or you could assume it’s just everyone else.
It's interesting hearing how people are feeling and coping. Everyone's views slightly different.
I really feel for you OP. I have been fortunate enough to work throughout, it's been relentless in work though.
I don't actually know how I would've cooed without work. At the end of January I broke my leg in 3 places. I spent 10 days in hospital and a further 7 weeks in a cast.
My cast was removed 2 days before lockdown. Prior to lockdown I had been out of the house 4 times to hospital appointments. Its only 3 weeks since I was given the green light to drive again. I still need one crutch if I'm walking any distance.
I won't lie, it's been awful, I love going on long walks with my dogs. It's my way of destressing and getting some fitness. I'd average 12,000 steps on the walk with the dogs which in Wales is a lot of hill walking
If you are able-bodied I would advocate getting out and exercising every morning and evening, physically and mentally it will do you the world of good, push yourself and set yourself a goal or target everyday / week / month.
Are there any organisations or charities you can volunteer for??
That sense of purpose and achievement is so important. The other thing I'm still missing as we live in Wales and are still locked down, is the typical social interactions we normally encounter during a normal day. Since lock down the "mundane" interactions have stopped and I realised early on how important they are.
As already mentioned, I'd look to build in some exercise, volunteer for a local charity and if you need to talk seek out help through friends, family, EAP programme, health care professionals or whoever you feel comfortable speaking to.
I think it's great you've shared how you feel on TZUK but speak to family and friends, don't settle for "pull yourself together", but also accept you need to take the first steps for putting that purpose back in your life. It's a while since I've been a frequent visitor to TZUK for all sorts of reasons. If there isn't already, is there an opportunity to contribute to, or start a thread dedicated to getting through lock down and daily suggestions, ideas, what you've achieved etc etc
Maybe this thread is that place??
I hope you can find your way through this very strange time and that you can find that "something" to help you through.
Paul
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For what it's worth, I think gingerboy has it spot on. Personally I have found exercise absolutely vital. Not necessarily anything strenuous, but having dogs forces me to be out in the green stuff for at least a couple of hours a day and that is a godsend for me. I also tackled my lifelong aversion to running by doing the Couch-to-5K (and if I can do a 30-minute 5K at 44 years old and 20 stone, literally any able-bodied human can) which was an interesting project.
Aside from that, I have found inconsequential but absorbing manual tasks intensely relaxing. Don't laugh, but building Lego seems to be a remarkably good head un-messer - it seems to require a different sort of concentration from reading (say) and even spending half an hour on a kit is therapeutic for me after a hectic day at work.
Finally, and in a similar vein, I've gone back to modelling; when I was a kid, up to the age of 18-ish, I was a model kit fiend. Twenty-odd years later I found myself researching and buying the first plastic model kit I've made since 1995 or so, and that has been rewarding too, in its way.
Perhaps I am just embracing my inner nerd, after years of denial...
I made one comment which was no different to those made by others. Since then I have simply replied to those criticising me for it. Is that really ‘playing the victim’?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yes, you play the same tune every time somebody challenges you about anything, it’s not just this thread, sadly.
I was made redundant in mid-January, along with most of the UK branch of the company. It was unrelated to the virus due to the company running into issues through mis-management. Thought I'd be out of work for a month or two at most then this all kicked off.
I've had to look after my 5 year old is at home in the day. My wife is working from home so I need to keep him occupied all day, which is the biggest challenge as he demands constant attention.
I've spent what time I have writing a book and getting into PS4 in the evening in a big way. Keeps me occupied and you never know, I might get the book published :)
If you are unhappy with your current situation/choices, etc, then you have the ability to change it. It’s not as if you been sentenced to jail.
I retired over 3 years ago and every evening before I go to bed I work out my plan for the next day. It might be play golf, wash the cars, do ironing, cooking dinner, gardening or DIY projects, etc, anything which gives me a goal(s) to aim for. The last couple of days has included restoring a couple of Victorian chests of drawers, both of which are Now finished and I am well satisfied with the results.
Now my wife has retired (mostly), she has started doing the same. It works for us.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
This is the book I was referring to:
https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/pr.../9780749953089
Hope it helps.
Since retiring at about the same time we have had a similar idea. Deciding what to do and then doing it which keeps you occupied. It doesn’t have to be a major project just simple things and tasks help but you need to decide on something first.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Thanks for taking the time to post M4tt. A sobering read, and pretty much the entirety of the content resonates.
It may or may not be relevant to the OP but certainly of help for others!
It’s not always as black and white as that Andy. I’m 50 too but having started my family late in life I now find myself at home looking after my two kids and helping them with their homeschooling. While trying to potter around the garden, clean the house etc, etc I’m getting constant calls from the kitchen from the kids to help with this and that.
Being retired is VERY different from being furloughed and possibly still having a young family to take care of.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...rvest-11979143
Suggest you write to the government as a taxpayer and scold them for encouraging furloughed workers to turn to fruit picking "for Britain"
I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I duplicate advice already offered, but I do understand how difficult it can be to motivate yourself when depressed. A few suggestions:-
Speak to your wife / close family about how you're feeling.
Speak to your Doctor
Have a look at this website https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/every-mind...BoCZpkQAvD_BwE
Do try to get some fresh air & excersize every day.
Catch up on reading some of those books that have been on your selves for a while
Consider learning a language
Try to avoid sugary or fatty foods & too much booze
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Thanks for your advice. Obviously a waste of effort but we don’t have to approve all Government policy.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 30th June 2020 at 13:46.
I am sure it’s not that black and white, however it’s something I found useful.
BTW my son was 8 when I hit 50 (he is now 18) and the biggest difference between being furloughed and retired is that being furloughed means you are getting 80% of your salary.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
A major difference between furloughed and being retired is that being retired you have completed paid employment fro your life,you have paid your mortgage (or near as damn it),you have probably raised your family and you have a pension giving you a steady,regular income. Whereas,being furloughed means you are potentially worrying about whether your company is going to survive,whether you will still have a job in the not too distant future,whether you can pay your mortgage & bills, whether you can provide for your family.
Being furloughed doesn’t necessarily mean you are sitting around without a care in the world and trying to decide whether to varnish some furniture or lose some golf balls.
I’m sure its definitely not black & white.
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