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Thread: Phillips Geneva auction prices achieved.

  1. #1
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    Phillips Geneva auction prices achieved.


  2. #2
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    There was a post in the Financial Times this week about how the top end of the market was seeing growth. Apparently, with holiday options being restricted, there has been an increase spend in people putting in swimming pools and buying luxury watches. Guess these prices bear that out.

  3. #3
    Watched the full auction today the one Patek 2.5m and the f p journe
    Last edited by Hooshabak; 27th June 2020 at 19:00.

  4. #4
    It's a total scam. Money laundering has been mentioned a few times now.

    The hammer price for so many of their watches (even before the buyer's premium) is above the asking price for watches listed all over the internet. They even sold a current production yellow gold submariner with black dial and bezel for over list and again, that's before adding the buyer's premium.

    Here's an example I saw for one of the AP lots from a big private collector on IG.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Wow, the Blancpain Aqua-Lung sold for £47k and it didnít even have the right crown. Mind blown.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  6. #6
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    Latest GMT pepsi steel jubilee sold for nearly 30K GBP... oh...and need to add buyers premium too...

    something not quite right here....

  7. #7
    Craftsman earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Perhaps these auctions attract a different - more-money-than-sense - audience compared to the mundane retail outlets?

  8. #8
    At some point the truth will come out and my money is on money laundering.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    At some point the truth will come out and my money is on money laundering.
    itís quite possible. However I am sure the auction houses are fully compliant with the law. Their customers on the other hand might not be, but whatís the different between this and spending millions on artworks.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    itís quite possible. However I am sure the auction houses are fully compliant with the law. Their customers on the other hand might not be, but whatís the different between this and spending millions on artworks.
    Really the only difference between watches and art is the watches sold today are freely available for a lot less from either ADs or reputable grey dealers which raises even more questions.

    I'm sure the auction house is within the lines but someone somewhere isn't.

  11. #11
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    Makes no sense to buy a BLRO for 30k to launder money. This has got to be willy waving by someone determined not to lose!??

    For those into the laundering business there must be smarter and less conspicuous ways to launder a lot more than 30k in a non public way!!

  12. #12
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    At one point this year Paul Thorpe said that everyone in the business knows that 20-25% of the money sloshing around in watches is dirty money. Sounds about right to me. What to do?
    If itís stupid, and it works, itís not stupid.

  13. #13
    Another collector hinting at the achieved prices.

  14. #14
    Definitely seems very strange for so many lots to be selling for far in excess of normal dealer price-
    Insanity to pay £28,000 for a new Pepsi !!
    I understand auctions can encourage punters to get carried away but this is another level.....

  15. #15
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    Something fishy definitely went on - it would be tough for the various tax authorities not to raise an eyebrowe if something like that were to happen on their doorstep, but the protections that the Swiss financial system provides would make it particularly difficult to investigate on any level.


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  16. #16
    If I had to guess, it would look to me like maybe people are trying to drive prices up of certain watches in the secondary market

  17. #17
    Master
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    I have heard from reliable sources that Rolex and Patek has been a frequent medium of exchange in organised crime for the past decade or so.

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  18. #18
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    *drop mic*


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    I have heard from reliable sources that Rolex and Patek has been a frequent medium of exchange in organised crime for the past decade or so.

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    I was a purchasing manager before I retired and along with other purchasing professionals wouldn't dream of wearing a Rolex for fear of the brown envelope accusation. Rolex has always had an iffy image.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I was a purchasing manager before I retired and along with other purchasing professionals wouldn't dream of wearing a Rolex for fear of the brown envelope accusation. Rolex has always had an iffy image.
    Yet they are your brand of choice?!

  21. #21
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Yet they are your brand of choice?!
    Because, like you, I am a flash git.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Because, like you, I am a flash git.

    Or unimaginative?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Because, like you, I am a flash git.
    Got me there, however, currently the collection is absent of any Rolex content.

  24. #24
    Converted to gbp and 25% buyers premium makes £60k.on chrono24 they sell for £11-22k and not exactly rare.Dubious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nono View Post
    *drop mic*

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  25. #25
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    WTF?

    Either money laundering or watchfinder shill bidding to get their market share back!

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nono View Post
    *drop mic*

    "and sold to the gentleman who owes one hundred billions dollars to the gentleman who owes drug money to the consignor"

  27. #27
    This?
    Is this correct?

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  28. #28
    Yes that is correct.A rare submariner.Found at a street market recently in Egypt and sold with a broken bracelet and missing bezel.A bezel has been sourced by the owner/auction house and available to buy separately.The price was not disclosed but someone did speculate it would be worth $40-50k!
    Quote Originally Posted by marius View Post
    This?
    Is this correct?

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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by amcneill View Post
    Yes that is correct.A rare submariner.Found at a street market recently in Egypt and sold with a broken bracelet and missing bezel.A bezel has been sourced by the owner/auction house and available to buy separately.The price was not disclosed but someone did speculate it would be worth $40-50k!

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    This one has been sold for 350k £
    So...once again: is that correct?
    Thank you for enlighting me

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  30. #30
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    Paul Thorpe is telling people that he thinks Rolex is buying up these pieces so as to bolster confidence in the value of the brand & reinforce the idea that a Rolex is a good investment.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy2254 View Post
    Paul Thorpe is telling people that he thinks Rolex is buying up these pieces so as to bolster confidence in the value of the brand & reinforce the idea that a Rolex is a good investment.
    Saw Paul's video but why do Rolex need to do that? These models are already desirable and hard to get.

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by amcneill View Post
    Saw Paul's video but why do Rolex need to do that? These models are already desirable and hard to get.

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    If I sell my 39mm Explorer, would I be able to buy a 2 bed apartment in Monaco overlooking the sea ?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If I sell my 39mm Explorer, would I be able to buy a 2 bed apartment in Monaco overlooking the sea ?
    No, Morecambe possibly.

  34. #34
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    Paul Thorpe

    Paul Thorpe posts another video just to keep his youtube hits up who knows what happened. What's his next posting going to be about did the auction house put the watch in themselves to keep up their profile in getting good prices for watches. His channel is based on no factual evidence ever on any of his claims he is a chavvy looking market trader character without any charm .
    Last edited by the master; 30th June 2020 at 18:24.

  35. #35
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    well i know where i am off to when i sell my yr 1 Flat 4 LV

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy2254 View Post
    Paul Thorpe is telling people that he thinks Rolex is buying up these pieces so as to bolster confidence in the value of the brand & reinforce the idea that a Rolex is a good investment.
    Out of all the things he could come up with he came up with this? Did Rolex buy the APs too or did AP buy them instead? IMO he knows what it is but he can't say because either he's been complicit in the past or is currently complicit.

  37. #37
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    GOD KNOWS

    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Out of all the things he could come up with he came up with this? Did Rolex buy the APs too or did AP buy them instead? IMO he knows what it is but he can't say because either he's been complicit in the past or is currently complicit.
    Paul Thorpe comes out with any old crap that for some strange reason his followers seem to swallow A lot of the comments he gets seem to be supporters from other than in the UK who seem to buy into his brand of what they must see as an appealing sort of Britishness. In some of his anti-police rant videos again which he never goes into any real details about have attracted some very suspect and worrying comments from some people

    God help us I am struggling to find any advice he has ever given to be of any real use or stand up to scrutiny All his so-called trusted dealer sources are never named. He is bloody awful and other YouTubers who get involved with him to try to advertise their own channels need to get their heads examined.

    Others may have a different view of him.

  38. #38
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    It was only a few weeks ago he was posting videos casting doubt over the wos Rolex purchasing during lockdown (100% deposit, etc.)...as above, trying to create hits and stay relevant. I wonder if he posted a follow up to that?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurasOtherHalf View Post
    WTF?

    Either money laundering or watchfinder shill bidding to get their market share back!
    Quite! Rich people don't get rich by overpaying for their stuff.

  40. #40
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    Paul Thorpe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    It was only a few weeks ago he was posting videos casting doubt over the wos Rolex purchasing during lockdown (100% deposit, etc.)...as above, trying to create hits and stay relevant. I wonder if he posted a follow up to that?
    He never comes back with anything if you challenge him he just deletes your posts I really can't see how people fall for it . The man is nothing other than a joke. i wonder some times if he even remembers what he has said some months ago he posted a video saying that when buying watch the bpapers papers were not as important as the condition of it and then within a few weeks posted a video saying he wanted to buy watches not as a dealer but for his own collection (make of that what you will ) but never guess they must be in tip top condition and MUST have the papers I challenged his change of position that had my posts deleted.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    It was only a few weeks ago he was posting videos casting doubt over the wos Rolex purchasing during lockdown (100% deposit, etc.)...as above, trying to create hits and stay relevant. I wonder if he posted a follow up to that?

    I think he did for that one to say 'fair play, enjoy the watches'

  42. #42
    Master
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    He is without doubt very knowledgable and he has produced some good stuff in the past. Unfortunately he is facing the age old problem of trying to find something sensible to say and is running out of material. He is falling into the trap of spouting waffle just to keep himself on Youtube. Not a good strategy.

    Everyone on Youtube has a sell by date and he is now there. Time for him to retire graciously.

  43. #43
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    paul Thorpe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakuan View Post
    I think he did for that one to say 'fair play, enjoy the watches'
    Well he sort of did but had this to say

    But buyers be warned, there could be a caveat to this very positive newsÖ


    He was even then trying to put forward a downer on this The man is nothing but a joke Does he even have all these watches he talks about I hope he never bought them from his thieving son who since had his bankruptcy extended.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    He is without doubt very knowledgable and he has produced some good stuff in the past. Unfortunately he is facing the age old problem of trying to find something sensible to say and is running out of material. He is falling into the trap of spouting waffle just to keep himself on Youtube. Not a good strategy.

    Everyone on Youtube has a sell by date and he is now there. Time for him to retire graciously.
    I never saw his early stuff so can't comment on that but in the last year its dross I don't have a problem with him making allegations against Rolex the Police or his own grandmother if he wants to but at least back it up with some evidence


    I also think it was in very poor taste to make that video about taking a fake watch to the local shooting range and destroying it in the name of fun when his son( sorry only a relative) defrauded 600,000 pounds from innocent people with his fake watches. has the man no sense of decency.
    Last edited by the master; Yesterday at 14:43.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by the master View Post
    I never saw his early stuff so can't comment on that but in the last year its dross I don't have a problem with him making allegations against Rolex the Police or his own grandmother if he wants to but at least back it up with some evidence
    Theres plenty around if we wanted to go after the son!

  46. #46
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by procrustes View Post
    Quite! Rich people don't get rich by overpaying for their stuff.
    But it doesnít stop rich people buying stuff they really want either. And itís not just watches either.

    A

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  47. #47
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Just a thought, but historically prices for high quality/rare vintage have only gone in one direction. Up.

    Buy one of these for say £30k today and in 10 years itís worth £60k. A 100% profit with zero Capital Gains Tax to pay.

    Better than gold bullion, plus the ability to wear it.

    I have no idea why current watches go for such high prices, but I doubt anyone will actually lose money in 10years.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  48. #48
    Master
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    Money laundering, or a desperate attempt to keep prices increasing. Just proves what a huge bubble the watch market still is.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 744ER View Post
    Money laundering, or a desperate attempt to keep prices increasing. Just proves what a huge bubble the watch market still is.
    the only person who can answer that question is Paul Thorpe he will be able to get the information from one of his endless supply of trusted sources who give him the wealth of information he imparts in his videos

  50. #50
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    Lady from Rolex was identified as bidding on Comex 1680 and pre-Daytona chronograph, and naughty dealer bid prices right up.

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