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Thread: Two new Luminor PAMS - 1313 and 1314

  1. #51
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    I see the 1312 now has a solid case back on the Panerai website. Cutting corners it is.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    I see the 1312 now has a solid case back on the Panerai website. Cutting corners it is.
    Personally I have no issue with keeping the cost down by not having a display back on these pretty functional pieces and their movements.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Personally I have no issue with keeping the cost down by not having a display back on these pretty functional pieces and their movements.
    Really?!?I mean it's not like they're passing the savings on to you. And what's the saving to them? 40 euro per unit? Are Richemont that tight. It's just not a good look to be removing "features" on what are supposed to be luxury products. There's also Panerai's history to consider as well... Would you be happy if these were finished to Brooklyn Bridge standards? After all, it's be another cost saving for Panerai on what you consider a functional piece.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    Really?!?I mean it's not like they're passing the savings on to you. And what's the saving to them? 40 euro per unit? Are Richemont that tight. It's just not a good look to be removing "features" on what are supposed to be luxury products. There's also Panerai's history to consider as well... Would you be happy if these were finished to Brooklyn Bridge standards? After all, it's be another cost saving for Panerai on what you consider a functional piece.
    If you read the interview by the new CEO, I think it's about going back to basics. I don't think it is a watch that really needs a display back. I have hope it isn't a Brooklyn debacle - here at least we have a screwed down caseback.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    Really?!?I mean it's not like they're passing the savings on to you. And what's the saving to them? 40 euro per unit? Are Richemont that tight. It's just not a good look to be removing "features" on what are supposed to be luxury products. There's also Panerai's history to consider as well... Would you be happy if these were finished to Brooklyn Bridge standards? After all, it's be another cost saving for Panerai on what you consider a functional piece.
    Mate, chill. I am quite content at the cheap price point. If you are not, then just move on.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    If you read the interview by the new CEO, I think it's about going back to basics. I don't think it is a watch that really needs a display back. I have hope it isn't a Brooklyn debacle - here at least we have a screwed down caseback.
    Fair enough on new products, but with the 1312 "getting back to basics" is a line that doesn't fly.

    It was decent interview, but I'm curious to see the follow through. It's a strategy they badly need, because they felt lost up to this points. Endless limited editions, slight change in colourways, leveraging new materials with values that seem margin centric is played out. And hilariously transparent. As for the 318 fiasco, It'd be fairly ballsy if Panerai did resort to that level of cheapness again. You'd nearly applaud it.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Mate, chill. I am quite content at the cheap price point. If you are not, then just move on.
    I find it fascinating, it's the strategy that I'm engaged with. I have no skin in this, no emotion. It's not cheap for a lot of people is it? And I think a products perception is particularly important at this entry point in the market. It drives the brand overall. I understand that the price may not be of significance to you, but I think you need to divorce yourself from that it you're to engage overall strategy. This seem to recurring theme in your posts and something you really need to communicate. That of money. It's the way you need to refer to it as "cheap". It reeks of compensation.
    Last edited by Oafley Jones; 20th June 2020 at 21:08.

  8. #58
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    Simple - don’t buy one. I think others (myself included) think they are great watches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    Really?!?I mean it's not like they're passing the savings on to you. And what's the saving to them? 40 euro per unit? Are Richemont that tight. It's just not a good look to be removing "features" on what are supposed to be luxury products. There's also Panerai's history to consider as well... Would you be happy if these were finished to Brooklyn Bridge standards? After all, it's be another cost saving for Panerai on what you consider a functional piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    Fair enough on new products, but with the 1312 "getting back to basics" is a line that doesn't fly.

    It was decent interview, but I'm curious to see the follow through. It's a strategy they badly need, because they felt lost up to this points. Endless limited editions, slight change in colourways, leveraging new materials with values that seem margin centric is played out. And hilariously transparent. As for the 318 fiasco, It'd be fairly ballsy if Panerai did resort to that level of cheapness again. You'd nearly applaud it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    I find it fascinating, it's the strategy that I'm engaged with. I have no skin in this, no emotion. It's not cheap for a lot of people is it? And I think a products perception is particularly important at this entry point in the market. It drives the brand overall. I understand that the price may not be of significance to you, but I think you need to divorce yourself from that it you're to engage overall strategy. This seem to recurring theme in your posts and something you really need to communicate. That of money. It's the way you need to refer to it as "cheap". It reeks of compensation.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    I find it fascinating, it's the strategy that I'm engaged with. I have no skin in this, no emotion. It's not cheap for a lot of people is it? And I think a products perception is particularly important at this entry point in the market. It drives the brand overall. I understand that the price may not be of significance to you, but I think you need to divorce yourself from that it you're to engage overall strategy. This seem to recurring theme in your posts and something you really need to communicate. That of money. It's the way you need to refer to it as "cheap". It reeks of compensation.
    I do not think they're cheap, but I do think it is a deliberate strategy, especially with the Luminor range - just look at the Limited Editions, they all have closed casebacks and are 44mm. Panerai needs some coherency, consistency and a move forward. The whole vintage, homage to old products phase has now ended. The new CEO is looking forward. Good.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oafley Jones View Post
    I find it fascinating, it's the strategy that I'm engaged with. I have no skin in this, no emotion. It's not cheap for a lot of people is it? And I think a products perception is particularly important at this entry point in the market. It drives the brand overall. I understand that the price may not be of significance to you, but I think you need to divorce yourself from that it you're to engage overall strategy. This seem to recurring theme in your posts and something you really need to communicate. That of money. It's the way you need to refer to it as "cheap". It reeks of compensation.
    I repeat. I enjoy the brand’s inexpensive theme, but for my incoming 979 of course. Now just move on.

  11. #61
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    As far as solid backs go, I think they are more appropriate for Panerai. It’s not as if the movement is highly decorated! Cost cutting or not, it is more appropriate.

    I do have an issue with Panerai using detuned Baume & Mercier movements at a much higher price point, but that is a separate matter.

    Dave


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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    As far as solid backs go, I think they are more appropriate for Panerai. It’s not as if the movement is highly decorated! Cost cutting or not, it is more appropriate.

    I do have an issue with Panerai using detuned Baume & Mercier movements at a much higher price point, but that is a separate matter.

    Dave


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    I vaguely remember this - can you point me to which watch or movement they did this with?

    EDIT - it's with the P900 movements used in the 42mm watches. Even the 42mm sub initially had the p9010 and now is equipped with the P900. This seems identical to the Baume & Mercier movememnt.
    Last edited by crazyp; 21st June 2020 at 00:01.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    I really need to get to the panerai boutique and try a few on as I'm thinking about a fiddy for my fiddy-eth. Still a few years off, but I work that way, researching and looking at lots of options before I settle. With 6.5" wrists or just over a 44mm may be the max I can do but I'd love a 47mm if I can wear it. If not, then this blue version Pam has to be an option.
    47mm Radiomir with wire lugs wear great on my wrist, similar size.


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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Personally I have no issue with keeping the cost down by not having a display back on these pretty functional pieces and their movements.
    When you're spending thousands of pounds on a watch the aim of the game isn't really keeping costs down, let alone by losing the exhibition case back. It's not like they went for stainless steel somewhere instead of white gold etc. They're not passing the savings onto you anyway.

  15. #65
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    Thank you lammylee

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I vaguely remember this - can you point me to which watch or movement they did this with?

    EDIT - it's with the P900 movements used in the 42mm watches. Even the 42mm sub initially had the p9010 and now is equipped with the P900. This seems identical to the Baume & Mercier movememnt.
    Some 42mm are still 9010, the 1392 for example.

    D


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  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    Some 42mm are still 9010, the 1392 for example.

    D


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    Cheers, I think we'll see Panerai bring some consistency in their product lines over the coming few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    When you're spending thousands of pounds on a watch the aim of the game isn't really keeping costs down, let alone by losing the exhibition case back. It's not like they went for stainless steel somewhere instead of white gold etc. They're not passing the savings onto you anyway.
    To me it is quite simple. The watch in question - white dial, grey lume, 44mm Luminor 1314 - is only available in the specification Panerai have to chosen to manufacture and sell it. I either like it and buy it, or I do not and look elsewhere. I like it, and have bought one at a (discounted) price with which I am happy. Others may decide differently.

  19. #69
    Re: the issue with 'cutting corners' - I have no issue with them not having see through casebacks - they are intended as divers' watches so really should have a solid caseback. All the Pre-Vendome, Pre-A and even the earlier A-D series (As far as I can remember) had solid casebacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Re: the issue with 'cutting corners' - I have no issue with them not having see through casebacks - they are intended as divers' watches so really should have a solid caseback. All the Pre-Vendome, Pre-A and even the earlier A-D series (As far as I can remember) had solid casebacks.
    Exactly. Thank you.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    To me it is quite simple. The watch in question - white dial, grey lume, 44mm Luminor 1314 - is only available in the specification Panerai have to chosen to manufacture and sell it. I either like it and buy it, or I do not and look elsewhere. I like it, and have bought one at a (discounted) price with which I am happy. Others may decide differently.
    I like it and will be buying the 1313. Where did you get one at discounted price?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavbaz View Post
    I like it and will be buying the 1313. Where did you get one at discounted price?
    PM’d.

  23. #73
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    I don't know anything about whether Panerai ever care about thinness, let alone in regard to these watches, but I do know that display backs come with discernible extra thickness. In watches chosen for their practicality, I would always much rather an extra degree of thinness than a display back. My watch spends all my waking hours on the wrist, and only seconds having its movement admired.

    Edit: here's the PAM01313's P.9100 movement that is not being revealed by a 300m WR display back

    Last edited by Der Amf; 22nd June 2020 at 07:14.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    PM’d.
    I’d appreciate one of those,quite fancy that white one .


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  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Re: the issue with 'cutting corners' - I have no issue with them not having see through casebacks - they are intended as divers' watches so really should have a solid caseback. All the Pre-Vendome, Pre-A and even the earlier A-D series (As far as I can remember) had solid casebacks.
    As I say, I don't think it's cutting corners but more to do with strategy. Anyway nothing too exciting about these movement, but good workhorses that do the job.

    I look forward to seeing some incomings of these models soon!!!

    And we should see more Luminors during the year.

  26. #76
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    Two new Luminor PAMS - 1313 and 1314

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    As I say, I don't think it's cutting corners but more to do with strategy. Anyway nothing too exciting about these movement, but good workhorses that do the job.

    I look forward to seeing some incomings of these models soon!!!

    And we should see more Luminors during the year.
    I quite fancy a blue dialled Base logo’d handwind.
    Last edited by Skyman; 22nd June 2020 at 07:10.

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Croftrock View Post
    I really like that white dial. I’ve never understood why the white dialled PAM aren’t so popular. I think they look really great. Maybe it’s the sheer scale of the amount of white!
    A white dialled Panerai is always a mistake.
    It`s just wrong.

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    I quite fancy a blue dialled Base logo’d handwind.
    I believe all the Luminor released so far this year are based on the 1950 case. A good old Luminor case (must be handwind) might be due then. And given blue is a bit of an 'in' colour, you never know....

    Slap that in a titanium case and I'd potentially be keen....

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I believe all the Luminor released so far this year are based on the 1950 case. A good old Luminor case (must be handwind) might be due then. And given blue is a bit of an 'in' colour, you never know....

    Slap that in a titanium case and I'd potentially be keen....
    Four numbers.......1085.;)

  30. #80
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    One can hope that the strategy for Luminor includes back to sandwich dials on the 8 day models. Fingers crossed

    D


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  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    I quite fancy a blue dialled Base logo’d handwind.
    That is lovely & would scratch my blue dial itch.


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    Quote Originally Posted by McBeardy View Post
    That is lovely & would scratch my blue dial itch.


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    Ring your local dealer and ask for a 1085. See what they say!

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    If you read the interview by the new CEO, I think it's about going back to basics. I don't think it is a watch that really needs a display back. I have hope it isn't a Brooklyn debacle - here at least we have a screwed down caseback.
    Its saving cost period. The savings are not passed on you to the end clients, and instead goes to shareholders and board members. Richemont are a terrible company in general, or rather the leadership is so arrogant and disconnected that I hate what they do with some of the brands.

    Not related to this release but Panerai is a brand where the cost cutting is so apparent, like using cartier movements in some of their watches coz apparently their OWN 3 hand movements are "too expensive" and then covering it up with a solid case back. (Again not these 2, they have inhouse movements).

    https://usa.watchpro.com/richemonts-...-cost-cutting/

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    As I say, I don't think it's cutting corners but more to do with strategy. Anyway nothing too exciting about these movement, but good workhorses that do the job.

    I look forward to seeing some incomings of these models soon!!!

    And we should see more Luminors during the year.
    Its definately cost cutting. The older panerais sure, used eta movements but they were priced at £2900~ back in the day! Now we see a Panerai at £8000 with a solid case back and we are happy that this is not "cost cutting."

    btw I think these 2 watches are nice and I think generally speaking, Panerai is heading in the right direction after years of mismanagement. But lets not ignore the cost cuttings that are happening all over the place, starting with the Base scandals where they reduced the back to snap on case backs and using spring bars etc, and then INCREASING the price. This is just standard Richemont type behaviour.

    At least with Rolex, price goes up but quality is also going up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    I don't know anything about whether Panerai ever care about thinness, let alone in regard to these watches, but I do know that display backs come with discernible extra thickness. In watches chosen for their practicality, I would always much rather an extra degree of thinness than a display back. My watch spends all my waking hours on the wrist, and only seconds having its movement admired.

    Edit: here's the PAM01313's P.9100 movement that is not being revealed by a 300m WR display back

    The newer movements are thinner.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Ring your local dealer and ask for a 1085. See what they say!
    It however looks like steel? Unfortunate, if titanium another story. I doubt we see titanium being used in the lower end - $19k on the Ti limited edition. Crazy!

    This still looking good however!

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    Its saving cost period. The savings are not passed on you to the end clients, and instead goes to shareholders and board members. Richemont are a terrible company in general, or rather the leadership is so arrogant and disconnected that I hate what they do with some of the brands.

    Not related to this release but Panerai is a brand where the cost cutting is so apparent, like using cartier movements in some of their watches coz apparently their OWN 3 hand movements are "too expensive" and then covering it up with a solid case back. (Again not these 2, they have inhouse movements).

    EDIT to add - we don't lambast Rolex for not having sapphire casebacks, yet we do with Panerai.....their workhorse movements aren't that exciting to see so why bother showing IMO.

    https://usa.watchpro.com/richemonts-...-cost-cutting/
    Cost-cutting - I really see it as strategy. Just look at the 70 year birthday LEs - ridiculously priced as it is, so no real issue to skimp on sapphire back if they wanted to. Yet they're all closed backs. Most of the 42mm have faced the brunt of the cost-cutting in recent years. I do agree - these watches are not that cheap, but then again probably in line with competing brands who've all jacked up their prices.

    EDIT to add - we don't lambast Rolex for not having casebacks in their standard pro models, yet we are with Panerai....

    Last edited by crazyp; 22nd June 2020 at 10:46.

  36. #86
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    The comments about Richemont don’t surprise me, unfortunately. It’s why I never buy watches which come under the Richemont umbrella. And that includes great brands such as VC and Lange, because I can’t judge how much cost-cutting they are being subject to. The loss of trust is such a shame.

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Ring your local dealer and ask for a 1085. See what they say!
    Think I may have to (out of interest was you using the London boutique for the your discount?)

    Shame Watchbase report snap on case back & 100m WR - https://watchbase.com/panerai/luminor/pam01085
    Last edited by McBeardy; 22nd June 2020 at 15:08.

  38. #88
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    I registered an interest on the blue dial and just had the Panerai boutique call me 10 mins ago - watch is available now direct from boutique, dealers will get them September, it's not a limited edition but first run is 1000 watches due to COVID - most are spoken for already.

    Love the blue dial, but will wait until discounts can be had.

  39. #89
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    I emailed the boutique about the white 42mm and have heard nothing back - and I thought I was one of their "special friends" 

    ...and I can't see a link to any of these new models to register an interest (the Panerai website is pretty dismal though).

    I'll give them a phone call tomorrow.

    simon
    Last edited by gladders; 22nd June 2020 at 17:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gladders View Post
    I emailed the boutique about the white 42mm and have heard nothing back - and I thought I was one of their "special friends" 

    ...and I can't see a link to any of these new models to register an interest (the Panerai website is pretty dismal though).

    I'll give them a phone call tomorrow.

    simon
    May I suggest you email the E-Boutique who are in The Netherlands? They confirmed to me last week that 1314 availability through them is next month. My dealer delivery is late August/early September.
    Last edited by Skyman; 22nd June 2020 at 17:24.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    May I suggest you email the E-Boutique who are in The Netherlands? They confirmed to me last week that 1314 availability through them is next month. My dealer delivery is late August/early September.
    Thanks for the tip!

    I’ll give that a go.

    simon

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by McBeardy View Post
    Think I may have to (out of interest was you using the London boutique for the your discount?)

    Shame Watchbase report snap on case back & 100m WR - https://watchbase.com/panerai/luminor/pam01085
    That is unfortunate about the WR. For me Luminor in 44mm+ has to be 300m or more.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    That is unfortunate about the WR. For me Luminor in 44mm+ has to be 300m or more.
    Indeed. A bit sad at that news.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Indeed. A bit sad at that news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Stoat View Post
    I registered an interest on the blue dial and just had the Panerai boutique call me 10 mins ago - watch is available now direct from boutique, dealers will get them September, it's not a limited edition but first run is 1000 watches due to COVID - most are spoken for already.

    Love the blue dial, but will wait until discounts can be had.
    Then again Skyman, it seems most buyers aren't fussed if they're flying out of the windows. Sad, because I do like the regular Luminor case. I hope it will not be relegated to being 'entry' level and thus liable to being cheapened with snapback and 100m WR. Reading the Watchbase, it also is likely to have a Valfleurier (ie Richemont Group movement) and not in-house. I guess they'll position the 8 day manual wind movements in more 'premium' watches.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCC66 View Post
    I really like the look of these.

    I know very little about Panerai, although I started doing a little research off the back of the stunning photos Nono occasionally posts. It feels like a brand I really should take seriously but I need to actually try a few on. I have a tiny, 6.25”, wrist so wonder if there’s anything that would work for me?


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    Thank you my man!

  46. #96
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    White dial 1314 now available if you ring the E-Boutique. Soon to be with ADs too I hope.

  47. #97
    Speaking to one of the London Boutique sales team online, querying some models, they've informed me the planned 42mm versions in blue and white (1394 & 1393 i think) have now been cancelled due to Covid-19 unsure how true this is or if just delayed.

    Really wanted to see the blue 42mm version of the 1313 to see how this wore, but am very tempted by the 1313.

  48. #98
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    That blue dial for me. Not sure about white dialled panerai’s

  49. #99

    1393

    Saw the announcement of the blue dial 42mm from Panerai on Instagram at the recent Watches and Wonders.

    Can only find the picture and info on model number and size.

    I did speak to Panerai a month ago who said this model was cancelled due to CV-19, but obviously not yet no more information online.

    Would be interested to see this in the flesh.


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