Seiko Captain Willard, good value?

[ODP]

I’ve been mulling over the impending Seiko Captain Willard release but am a little conflicted on its price/value.
On the face of it a thousand pounds (for this hobby anyway) is relatively inexpensive. However I own a Seiko PADI Turtle for which I paid far less than half the cost of the Willard. As far as I can tell the extra premium basically buys you a slightly better version of the movement that can be found in the PADI and a sapphire crystal.
As such I’m not sure the upgrade is worthwhile?
(Saying that I’ll no doubt relent and buy the interesting looking green version, get bored with it and then sell it at a huge loss!)

[Onelasttime]

Sod the value – I'm going to go for one. It looks almost perfect. I don't even mind the 'X' anymore.

I'll proabably shift the SPB077 to make way.

I would have waited for the new baby PRS-68 but I can't be fecked with the 2-minute Sunday lottery.

[ODP]

Sod the value – I'm going to go for one. It looks almost perfect. I don't even mind the 'X' anymore.

I'll proabably shift the SPB077 to make way.

I would have waited for the new baby PRS-68 but I can't be fecked with the 2-minute Sunday lottery.

Which version will you get?

[seabiscuit]

The olive/green one for me on the rubber strap. Don’t need another watch but I think I could find an excuse for this one.

[Onelasttime]

Which version will you get?

Black for sure. I'm not a fan of earthy green dials, plus you get the bracelet with the black version, although I'll probably wear it on a rubber waffle or tyre tread strap most of the time.

[catflem]

Using a car analogy - why buy a replica, when you can have the original for the same price ?.

The brakes may be better, the engine more powerful, the car may be more comfortable............but the bottom line is that it's a replica.

[seabiscuit]

Using a car analogy - why buy a replica, when you can have the original for the same price ?.

The brakes may be better, the engine more powerful, the car may be more comfortable............but the bottom line is that it's a replica.

I think you’d be struggling to get a decent original for the cost of these.

[Onelasttime]

Using a car analogy - why buy a replica, when you can have the original for the same price ?.

The brakes may be better, the engine more powerful, the car may be more comfortable............but the bottom line is that it's a replica.

Please find me an original, good condition 6105 for circa £1k.

It's hardly a replica – it's made by the same company.

[wileeeeeey]

I'm debating the SPB151 Vs SPB143 Vs a King Turtle. The price of the new SPB151 doesn't sit right with me for the quality. Like OneLastTime I also have a MM200 (SPB079) but wouldn't sell that to make way for one of these.

68molle on Instagram has some decent real life shots of the new releases including the SLAs.

[sish101]

When is the official launch date in the UK?

Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

[Ruggertech]

Goldsmiths have the green at £1000 delivered. Go through Topcashback and it comes to £927.80 after payout, and use a credit or debit card with cashback to pay for it for a further discount. Way below original 6105 territory and its early doors yet.

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[kneadking]

I figure that if I fancied this model I would just wait for the new issue of the Baby PRS-68 which comes in at 40mm and is due in July, and it will be far less that the Seiko re-issue.

[Onelasttime]

I figure that if I fancied this model I would just wait for the new issue of the Baby PRS-68 which comes in at 40mm and is due in July, and it will be far less that the Seiko re-issue.

Good luck in the TF every-other-Sunday 20-second online lottery then

[kneadking]

Good luck in the TF every-other-Sunday 20-second online lottery then

Its kind of like Power Ball right, but my odds are better with the Power Ball ticket. LoL.

[JasonM]

1970s German catalogue.

Ha! Very funny 😁

[wileeeeeey]

Wow, the green is out of stock and the black is "on application only".

[crazyp]

Wow, the green is out of stock and the black is "on application only".

Where from? (unless i missed it).

I have to say, there must be quite a few with dilemmas as to whether to go with this or the 62MAS (SPB143). Any with preferences?

[wileeeeeey]

Where from? (unless i missed it).

I have to say, there must be quite a few with dilemmas as to whether to go with this or the 62MAS (SPB143). Any with preferences?

https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Seiko-P...J1/p/18280018/

I honestly think my preference right now is to go cheaper (new SRP777 replacement due imminently or King Turtle) or go more expensive (SLA017 via WTB).

[crazyp]

https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Seiko-P...J1/p/18280018/

I honestly think my preference right now is to go cheaper (new SRP777 replacement due imminently or King Turtle) or go more expensive (SLA017 via WTB).

Makes sense - I love the turtles and so much choice in the range too. Note the movements are wildly erratic however in the turtle, just look at my turtle’s performance in the summer challenge. So that is a plus for the 6R.

So yes the new Willard’s are probably better watches, but the turtle very much does the job.

The king’s look odd with the cyclops. I’m curious what they plan to do with a new turtles, but honestly with everything else coming out it may take a while (and probably be more expensive)


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[wileeeeeey]

The king’s look odd with the cyclops. I’m curious what they plan to do with a new turtles, but honestly with everything else coming out it may take a while (and probably be more expensive)

The SRP777 replacement is the SRPE93 but there aren't any pictures/much info at the moment. It's meant to be an update to a latest ISO standard but no doubt Seiko will use this as a chance to upgrade it and increase the price as with other models. Perhaps being it up to par with the King Turtles.

Yonsson from here seems to have removed his Cyclops with easewhich has changed my mind on it a lot. If only it came without the day or even a time only version it would be perfect.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBQQWpcHV6g/

[bond]

https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Seiko-P...J1/p/18280018/

I honestly think my preference right now is to go cheaper (new SRP777 replacement due imminently or King Turtle) or go more expensive (SLA017 via WTB).

I'm in the same boat -Any idea where you'd buy a new 777 at a good price ?

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[ryanb741]

Out of stock because it hasn't been released yet guys.

[Idontgram]

I’ve been mulling over the impending Seiko Captain Willard release but am a little conflicted on its price/value.
On the face of it a thousand pounds (for this hobby anyway) is relatively inexpensive. However I own a Seiko PADI Turtle for which I paid far less than half the cost of the Willard. As far as I can tell the extra premium basically buys you a slightly better version of the movement that can be found in the PADI and a sapphire crystal.
As such I’m not sure the upgrade is worthwhile?
(Saying that I’ll no doubt relent and buy the interesting looking green version, get bored with it and then sell it at a huge loss!)

The trouble with breaking down the ‘added value’ is that it’s subjective.
If you like the look of the Cap. Willard and the ‘Apocalypse Now’ / military history aspect means something to you, then the Turtle is just a different watch altogether so it’s not a fair comparison.

If you were looking for a cushion-cased Seiko diver, then paying twice the price for a 6r movement, ceramic insert and sapphire crystal (I accept that there may be other refinements which I’m unaware of), seems less appealing but not wholly unreasonable.

Personally, I’d split the difference and go for a king Turtle, Cyclops or not. I much prefer the look of it but beauty is in the eye... etc etc.

[snowman]

You're paying an awful lot for Seiko on the dial.

While the movement is better, there are a shed load of 6105-alikes with Seiko movements for under £150.

Yes, they mostly have silly names or logos and you'd HOPE that the Seiko is better finished, but they offer reliable movements, ceramic inserts, sapphire crystals and the same look for a fraction of the price.

I certainly wouldn't spend that much just to have the Seiko name - If I wanted a 'proper' 6105, I'd pay a bit more and get an original one (as others have said, you'll probably get your money back, or more, over a few years), but the design doesn't do a lot for me.

M

[HookedSeven]

With a bit of effort and daily checks, you can find a good 6105 for £1k or less. You need to do your homework though.

[BillN]

With a bit of effort and daily checks, you can find a good 6105 for £1k or less. You need to do your homework though.

6105's - remember they are 50 year old watches and there are some real"dogs" out there and at that price they usually need "work" - certainly a service @ circa £200, (maybe more depends on the parts that need replacing), - probably a strap at £50 - in most cases the dial will have suffered from "moisture" and to look smart will need at least a clean = £100 - you have to be careful with the crown and winder - the case will be marked and have lost it's finishing, BUT the modern Seiko "Turtles" are just not the same as the 6105's and 6306/6309's from the 70's and 80's

6105's have now become collectors items and the modern "re-crafted/re-issues" are just modern watches from Seiko

6105 - there are also 2 different models, (8009 and 8110) and a few different "versions", proof/resist and Japan and rest of world.

Only the SLA033 which has a dial nearest to the original, the latest models do not

[HookedSeven]

6105's - remember they are 50 year old watches and there are some real "dogs" out there...

I’m the Battersea home for those !

[TaketheCannoli]

As much as I love a Seiko I can't help but think I'd be disappointed with this for £1200.

[BillN]

Here's a couple of mine

images not great - they look better in the flesh

I prefer the slimmer cased 8009, but some days I prefer the other

[wileeeeeey]

As much as I love a Seiko I can't help but think I'd be disappointed with this for £1200.

From the real life pictures online I just can't see it being a £1,200 watch on the bracelet or £1,000 on the rubber. Not even close.

[Pagan]

I would like one of these eventually, but not enough to buy one new on release. I'll wait until they become available used, and try to pick one up at a good price.

I'm disappointed they made them smaller.

For those suggesting people just buy a vintage 6105 instead, you're comparing apples with oranges. A good vintage example will cost more than these are brand new. A vintage watch is obviously not brand new... So comparing used prices, we're talking more like double the cost. And the price of ownership will be considerably higher too.

As for the person who deliberately using the terms homage or replica to describe these, that's just silly.

[HookedSeven]

For those suggesting people just buy a vintage 6105 instead, you're comparing apples with oranges. A good vintage example will cost more than these are brand new. A vintage watch is obviously not brand new... So comparing used prices, we're talking more like double the cost. And the price of ownership will be considerably higher too.

Anyone that invests a reasonable amount of time and effort can pick an original up for less than the new price of one of these. It might not be museum grade, but you can get an all original watch in honest condition for that. I’ve bought three in the last year, and not one of them will break £1k even after correcting non-original parts and a service.

And I’m not sure the price of ownership will be higher. These are tough watches with solid and reliable movements. Parts are out there too. Perhaps servicing costs will be higher, but that would likely be more offset by the differences between depreciation and appreciation.

[Pagan]

Anyone that invests a reasonable amount of time and effort can pick an original up for less than the new price of one of these. It might not be museum grade, but you can get an all original watch in honest condition for that. I’ve bought three in the last year, and not one of them will break £1k even after correcting non-original parts and a service.

And I’m not sure the price of ownership will be higher. These are tough watches with solid and reliable movements. Parts are out there too. Perhaps servicing costs will be higher, but that would likely be more offset by the differences between depreciation and appreciation.

It's still not a fair comparison though is it? A brand new watch will always be a hell of a lot more expensive than a used one. A vintage 6105 is, by definition, a used watch. The new re-issue, once the market settles down, will probably be sold used at more like £500.

And moving away from value, and towards preference, there's a lot to be said for not having to worry about a watch. How many original 6105 owners are wearing them to the gym, in the pool, in the sea...?

[BillN]

Seiko have marketed many Special Edition and Limited Edition watches over the past few years, usually at a price premium to the last standard issue, BUT prices in the last few years have increased significantly

I wouldn't be surprised if Seiko didn't release a Special Edition SKX007 soon and priced at £750 to £1,000 list

[Dynam0humm]

Seiko have marketed many Special Edition and Limited Edition watches over the past few years, usually at a price premium to the last standard issue, BUT prices in the last few years have increased significantly

I wouldn't be surprised if Seiko didn't release a Special Edition SKX007 soon and priced at £750 to £1,000 list

Didn't the Monster double in price when it was briefly discontinued then came back with that X on the dial?

[catflem]

As for the person who deliberately using the terms homage or replica to describe these, that's just silly.

You're right, and upon reflection calling it a homage or replica may have been harsh, so I'll change my description to cynical marketing ploy.

Someone at Seiko has obviously noted the price "Willards" are fetching. I'm looking forward to their cynical marketing ploy version of the Pogue, the UFO, and god knows how many other iconic Seiko watches.

Hooked Seven has summed it up perfectly. Real Willards can be had for sensible money if you are prepared to put the effort into procuring one for a sensible price.

[Pagan]

You're right, and upon reflection calling it a homage or replica may have been harsh, so I'll change my description to cynical marketing ploy.

Someone at Seiko has obviously noted the price "Willards" are fetching. I'm looking forward to their cynical marketing ploy version of the Pogue, the UFO, and god knows how many other iconic Seiko watches.

Hooked Seven has summed it up perfectly. Real Willards can be had for sensible money if you are prepared to put the effort into procuring one for a sensible price.

Blimey. You sound like a nutter.

Seiko fans have been saying for ages that they want seiko to produce re-editions of classics, with upgraded specs. Seiko delivering what fans want is a "cynical marketing ploy"? Lol. Ok.

Makes me wonder how you feel about Eddie's watches. Cynical marketing ploys one and all presumably.

If all you're trying to say is that you think a vintage one is better value, that's fine, that's a reasonable opinion to hold. I think that's super subjective though, and lots of people would say the opposite.

[catflem]

Makes me wonder how you feel about Eddie's watches. Cynical marketing ploys one and all presumably.

Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.

[Kallang]

Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.

This is surely taking the price of everything but the value of nothing. As it happens, I don't know Seiko's per unit cost and would not like to guess. Seiko and Timefactors are two completely different concerns and I would like even less to compare the two without knowing anything of their internal workings.

Seiko today make ISO diver's watches like the sort they used to, the sort that are now valued as vintage pieces. Today's watches still have the same ethos as their predecessors. They were obtainable, affordable and useful. To a large extent this still holds true today. In a world now where mechanical watches are a symbol of status, taste or wealth first - and a timepiece second - Seiko divers are an anachronism that has managed to lodge itself into a contemporary niche as if the quartz revolution never happened. If you buy a new Seiko diver today it is analogous in essence to a buyer getting their new one in the 70s. This is what I love about Seiko.

[Pagan]

Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.

That's a perfectly valid point to make, but in my opinion it's no different to any comparison of value for money in the watch world, where paying for the perceived value of a brand is par for the course.

At least when you're in Seiko territory, the difference between the homage and the real deal is a few hundred quid, not literally thousands, or tens of thousands.

Imagine how much Rolex would be asking for a re-edition of the 1016, and how many people on here would be falling over themselves to get one, whether Eddie's homage was still available or not. But Rolex wouldn't do that anyway, cuz they don't do that kind of fan service.

Well done on quitting smoking! Best of luck.

[Euan Begbie]

Too expensive for me.


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[ac11111]

The green one for me. At £1k seems a bit rich at first given price increases and other Seiko Prospex divers, but then when compared to say other value props like oris 65 or longines conquest it seems relatively good value.

I really like the profile in this pic, the flat case, coin edge and domed crystal.

[TheTigerUK]

For years us vintage guys wished for a new "6105" with a screw down crown, drilled lugs, hand wind, hacking and 200m WP and when we get it we moan that it isent like the original, I wonder why they say we are WIS ? :)

[mindforge]

For years us vintage guys wished for a new "6105" with a screw down crown, drilled lugs, hand wind, hacking and 200m WP and when we get it we moan that it isent like the original, I wonder why they say we are WIS ? :)

Ha quite. I think this looks fantastic and really is there another huge watch brand out there which responds to its fans and resurrects iconic vintage models like this.

[chronolector]

[Planet Ocean]

Resurrecting this thread as many comments from over a year and a half ago regarding possible price drops on both the SPB151 & SPB153 after time on the market.

So even two years after their original release, the price point has pretty much remained constant with the SPB151 @ £1200 & the SPB153 @ £1000.

Did anybody eventually bite the bullet and purchase either model since the thread was originally started....

[Speedy2254]

Resurrecting this thread as many comments from over a year and a half ago regarding possible price drops on both the SPB151 & SPB153 after time on the market.

So even two years after their original release, the price point has pretty much remained constant with the SPB151 @ £1200 & the SPB153 @ £1000.

Did anybody eventually bite the bullet and purchase either model since the thread was originally started....

I bought the green one (SPB153?) in lockdown in '21. I paid £800 via Goldsmiths, they had 20% off & it was delivered the next day. I love it, it's big, it's heavy, it's green, what's not to like? Only drawback for me is the strap comes out of the keeper too easily, I think the keeper slides up until the strap is no longer engaged. But that's a minor niggle...

[wileeeeeey]

Nope, couldn't stomach the cost...

[Onelasttime]

I bought the SPB151, but from SC for considerably less than RRP. I thought it was excellent and would have hung onto it if the real deal hadn't become available.

I sold it 6 months later and kept this instead…

[Sinnlover]

I sold it 6 months later and kept this instead…

I still think about that watch. It was a cracker for the money. I have been looking ever since.