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Thread: Seiko Captain Willard, good value?

  1. #51
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Are the H&M hands correct on that one ? In that photo itís hard to see if theyíre chamfered or not.
    Had me worried there for a sec, I had never checked , found my loupe and yes, all correct and chamfered.
    Cheers..
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  2. #52
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    6105 and 6306/09

    "new" hands, dials and bezel inserts

    the guys in the Far East who produce these are getting better and better

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabiscuit View Post
    You lucky, lucky fellow. Right place, right time, I suppose. Mind you, knowing more about the intrinsic value of it than the dealer did also worked in your favour. What a lovely example.

    Thanks, I did get lucky, in fact I got a tip off from a member on here K.I.T.T who had found the seller and bought a 62MAS from them for similar money and kindly gave me the heads up that this one was on the website still, even though this was a long time ago they were still going for a lot more than we paid.
    Cheers..
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  4. #54
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Had me worried there for a sec, I had never checked , found my loupe and yes, all correct and chamfered.
    Thatís good news... and what a fantastic example irrespective of cost.

  5. #55
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    I suggest 'try before you buy'. I had one on my wrist last February in Luxembourg. The size of a helicopter-landing-deck on my wrist was the dealbreaker for me. Only 2 mm wider, but still... Has it something to do with the image in my head having the real one on my wrist, making this one look too big? I don't know. (I own two 6105s).

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    I suggest 'try before you buy'. I had one on my wrist last February in Luxembourg. The size of a helicopter-landing-deck on my wrist was the dealbreaker for me. Only 2 mm wider, but still... Has it something to do with the image in my head having the real one on my wrist, making this one look too big? I don't know. (I own two 6105s).
    What are you talking about?

    The new reissue is 2mm smaller than the original. Not bigger.

  7. #57
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    I would like one of these eventually, but not enough to buy one new on release. I'll wait until they become available used, and try to pick one up at a good price.

    I'm disappointed they made them smaller.

    For those suggesting people just buy a vintage 6105 instead, you're comparing apples with oranges. A good vintage example will cost more than these are brand new. A vintage watch is obviously not brand new... So comparing used prices, we're talking more like double the cost. And the price of ownership will be considerably higher too.

    As for the person who deliberately using the terms homage or replica to describe these, that's just silly.
    Last edited by Pagan; 16th June 2020 at 15:31.

  8. #58
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    For those suggesting people just buy a vintage 6105 instead, you're comparing apples with oranges. A good vintage example will cost more than these are brand new. A vintage watch is obviously not brand new... So comparing used prices, we're talking more like double the cost. And the price of ownership will be considerably higher too.
    Anyone that invests a reasonable amount of time and effort can pick an original up for less than the new price of one of these. It might not be museum grade, but you can get an all original watch in honest condition for that. Iíve bought three in the last year, and not one of them will break £1k even after correcting non-original parts and a service.

    And Iím not sure the price of ownership will be higher. These are tough watches with solid and reliable movements. Parts are out there too. Perhaps servicing costs will be higher, but that would likely be more offset by the differences between depreciation and appreciation.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Anyone that invests a reasonable amount of time and effort can pick an original up for less than the new price of one of these. It might not be museum grade, but you can get an all original watch in honest condition for that. Iíve bought three in the last year, and not one of them will break £1k even after correcting non-original parts and a service.

    And Iím not sure the price of ownership will be higher. These are tough watches with solid and reliable movements. Parts are out there too. Perhaps servicing costs will be higher, but that would likely be more offset by the differences between depreciation and appreciation.
    It's still not a fair comparison though is it? A brand new watch will always be a hell of a lot more expensive than a used one. A vintage 6105 is, by definition, a used watch. The new re-issue, once the market settles down, will probably be sold used at more like £500.

    And moving away from value, and towards preference, there's a lot to be said for not having to worry about a watch. How many original 6105 owners are wearing them to the gym, in the pool, in the sea...?

  10. #60
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    Seiko have marketed many Special Edition and Limited Edition watches over the past few years, usually at a price premium to the last standard issue, BUT prices in the last few years have increased significantly

    I wouldn't be surprised if Seiko didn't release a Special Edition SKX007 soon and priced at £750 to £1,000 list

  11. #61
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    Too expensive for me.


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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    As for the person who deliberately using the terms homage or replica to describe these, that's just silly.
    You're right, and upon reflection calling it a homage or replica may have been harsh, so I'll change my description to cynical marketing ploy.

    Someone at Seiko has obviously noted the price "Willards" are fetching. I'm looking forward to their cynical marketing ploy version of the Pogue, the UFO, and god knows how many other iconic Seiko watches.

    Hooked Seven has summed it up perfectly. Real Willards can be had for sensible money if you are prepared to put the effort into procuring one for a sensible price.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by catflem View Post
    You're right, and upon reflection calling it a homage or replica may have been harsh, so I'll change my description to cynical marketing ploy.

    Someone at Seiko has obviously noted the price "Willards" are fetching. I'm looking forward to their cynical marketing ploy version of the Pogue, the UFO, and god knows how many other iconic Seiko watches.

    Hooked Seven has summed it up perfectly. Real Willards can be had for sensible money if you are prepared to put the effort into procuring one for a sensible price.
    Blimey. You sound like a nutter.

    Seiko fans have been saying for ages that they want seiko to produce re-editions of classics, with upgraded specs. Seiko delivering what fans want is a "cynical marketing ploy"? Lol. Ok.

    Makes me wonder how you feel about Eddie's watches. Cynical marketing ploys one and all presumably.

    If all you're trying to say is that you think a vintage one is better value, that's fine, that's a reasonable opinion to hold. I think that's super subjective though, and lots of people would say the opposite.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    Seiko have marketed many Special Edition and Limited Edition watches over the past few years, usually at a price premium to the last standard issue, BUT prices in the last few years have increased significantly

    I wouldn't be surprised if Seiko didn't release a Special Edition SKX007 soon and priced at £750 to £1,000 list
    Didn't the Monster double in price when it was briefly discontinued then came back with that X on the dial?

  15. #65
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    The green one for me. At £1k seems a bit rich at first given price increases and other Seiko Prospex divers, but then when compared to say other value props like oris 65 or longines conquest it seems relatively good value.

    I really like the profile in this pic, the flat case, coin edge and domed crystal.


  16. #66
    For years us vintage guys wished for a new "6105" with a screw down crown, drilled lugs, hand wind, hacking and 200m WP and when we get it we moan that it isent like the original, I wonder why they say we are WIS ? :)

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    For years us vintage guys wished for a new "6105" with a screw down crown, drilled lugs, hand wind, hacking and 200m WP and when we get it we moan that it isent like the original, I wonder why they say we are WIS ? :)
    Ha quite. I think this looks fantastic and really is there another huge watch brand out there which responds to its fans and resurrects iconic vintage models like this.

  18. #68
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    I figure that if I fancied this model I would just wait for the new issue of the Baby PRS-68 which comes in at 40mm and is due in July, and it will be far less that the Seiko re-issue.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    What are you talking about?

    The new reissue is 2mm smaller than the original. Not bigger.
    Mmm, my bad. I had a look at the brochure I took from the AD and I now see that it was the SLA033 that I had on my wrist; that's 45mm wide and so, it's wider than the original 6105.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneadking View Post
    I figure that if I fancied this model I would just wait for the new issue of the Baby PRS-68 which comes in at 40mm and is due in July, and it will be far less that the Seiko re-issue.
    Good luck in the TF every-other-Sunday 20-second online lottery then

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    Makes me wonder how you feel about Eddie's watches. Cynical marketing ploys one and all presumably.
    Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

    Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

    As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.
    Last edited by catflem; 17th June 2020 at 10:50.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by catflem View Post
    Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

    Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

    As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.
    This is surely taking the price of everything but the value of nothing. As it happens, I don't know Seiko's per unit cost and would not like to guess. Seiko and Timefactors are two completely different concerns and I would like even less to compare the two without knowing anything of their internal workings.

    Seiko today make ISO diver's watches like the sort they used to, the sort that are now valued as vintage pieces. Today's watches still have the same ethos as their predecessors. They were obtainable, affordable and useful. To a large extent this still holds true today. In a world now where mechanical watches are a symbol of status, taste or wealth first - and a timepiece second - Seiko divers are an anachronism that has managed to lodge itself into a contemporary niche as if the quartz revolution never happened. If you buy a new Seiko diver today it is analogous in essence to a buyer getting their new one in the 70s. This is what I love about Seiko.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by catflem View Post
    Not at all, and you have provided a great example of why Seiko's re-issue is over priced.

    Eddie was able to tool, manufacture and supply the PRS-68 for £485. Which is less than half the price Seiko are asking. I'd hazard a guess that Seiko's per unit cost are also lower than Eddie's. Seiko produce similarly specced divers at a lower price than their 6105 re-issue.

    As for sounding like a nutter :-), you may have a valid point there. I gave up smoking 9 days ago, so I'm probably a little more argumentative than usual.
    That's a perfectly valid point to make, but in my opinion it's no different to any comparison of value for money in the watch world, where paying for the perceived value of a brand is par for the course.

    At least when you're in Seiko territory, the difference between the homage and the real deal is a few hundred quid, not literally thousands, or tens of thousands.

    Imagine how much Rolex would be asking for a re-edition of the 1016, and how many people on here would be falling over themselves to get one, whether Eddie's homage was still available or not. But Rolex wouldn't do that anyway, cuz they don't do that kind of fan service.

    Well done on quitting smoking! Best of luck.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallang View Post
    This is surely taking the price of everything but the value of nothing. As it happens, I don't know Seiko's per unit cost and would not like to guess. Seiko and Timefactors are two completely different concerns and I would like even less to compare the two without knowing anything of their internal workings.

    Seiko today make ISO diver's watches like the sort they used to, the sort that are now valued as vintage pieces. Today's watches still have the same ethos as their predecessors. They were obtainable, affordable and useful. To a large extent this still holds true today. In a world now where mechanical watches are a symbol of status, taste or wealth first - and a timepiece second - Seiko divers are an anachronism that has managed to lodge itself into a contemporary niche as if the quartz revolution never happened. If you buy a new Seiko diver today it is analogous in essence to a buyer getting their new one in the 70s. This is what I love about Seiko.
    Completely agree with all of this.

    Nicely said.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallang View Post
    This is surely taking the price of everything but the value of nothing. As it happens, I don't know Seiko's per unit cost and would not like to guess. Seiko and Timefactors are two completely different concerns and I would like even less to compare the two without knowing anything of their internal workings.

    Seiko today make ISO diver's watches like the sort they used to, the sort that are now valued as vintage pieces. Today's watches still have the same ethos as their predecessors. They were obtainable, affordable and useful. To a large extent this still holds true today. In a world now where mechanical watches are a symbol of status, taste or wealth first - and a timepiece second - Seiko divers are an anachronism that has managed to lodge itself into a contemporary niche as if the quartz revolution never happened. If you buy a new Seiko diver today it is analogous in essence to a buyer getting their new one in the 70s. This is what I love about Seiko.
    The 6105 was US$95 in 1974 - the modern SRP777 is/was US$475 ...... cannot do the cals but maybe in inflation terms the prices are both equal

    https://www.thewatchsite.com/d1/file...Catalog.V2.pdf

    compare these with the price of the new releases

  26. #76
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    The 6105 was US$95 in 1974 - the modern SRP777 is/was US$475 ...... cannot do the cals but maybe in inflation terms the prices are both equal
    With inflation the price is more or less the same Bill.

    $95 in 1974 is worth $494 today.
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  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    The 6105 was US$95 in 1974 - the modern SRP777 is/was US$475 ...... cannot do the cals but maybe in inflation terms the prices are both equal

    https://www.thewatchsite.com/d1/file...Catalog.V2.pdf

    compare these with the price of the new releases
    $95 in 74 equates to about $495 in 2020 adjusted for inflation.

    But I don't think adjusting for inflation is a good measure in a world where watch prices specifically have increased exponentially beyond the rate of inflation.

    The stainless Submariner date cost $230 dollars in 74, or about $1200 in today's money. Isn't the current Rolex sub about $9000?

    And again, we're not comparing like with like. Over time, specs, materials and engineering have moved on. That original 6105 didn't have a screw down crown, or a unidirectional bezel, or a sapphire crystal, or ceramic insert, or a hacking, hand-winding antimagnetic movement with a 70 hour power reserve, etc.

  28. #78
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    1970s German catalogue.


  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    $95 in 74 equates to about $495 in 2020 adjusted for inflation.

    But I don't think adjusting for inflation is a good measure in a world where watch prices specifically have increased exponentially beyond the rate of inflation.

    The stainless Submariner date cost $230 dollars in 74, or about $1200 in today's money. Isn't the current Rolex sub about $9000?

    And again, we're not comparing like with like. Over time, specs, materials and engineering have moved on. That original 6105 didn't have a screw down crown, or a unidirectional bezel, or a sapphire crystal, or ceramic insert, or a hacking, hand-winding antimagnetic movement with a 70 hour power reserve, etc.
    In 1970 I think that the 5513 Sub was twice the price of the 6105

    but today Rolex is Rolex

  30. #80
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    so there's the SRP777K1 at about £350 - the SLA033J1 at about £3,000 and now these new issues at £1,000

  31. #81
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Good luck in the TF every-other-Sunday 20-second online lottery then
    Its kind of like Power Ball right, but my odds are better with the Power Ball ticket. LoL.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    1970s German catalogue.

    Ha! Very funny 😁
    Cheers..
    Jase

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  34. #84
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    Resurrecting this thread as many comments from over a year and a half ago regarding possible price drops on both the SPB151 & SPB153 after time on the market.

    So even two years after their original release, the price point has pretty much remained constant with the SPB151 @ £1200 & the SPB153 @ £1000.

    Did anybody eventually bite the bullet and purchase either model since the thread was originally started....

  35. #85
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    Nope, couldn't stomach the cost...

  36. #86
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    I bought the SPB151, but from SC for considerably less than RRP. I thought it was excellent and would have hung onto it if the real deal hadn't become available.

    I sold it 6 months later and kept this insteadÖ


  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planet Ocean View Post
    Resurrecting this thread as many comments from over a year and a half ago regarding possible price drops on both the SPB151 & SPB153 after time on the market.

    So even two years after their original release, the price point has pretty much remained constant with the SPB151 @ £1200 & the SPB153 @ £1000.

    Did anybody eventually bite the bullet and purchase either model since the thread was originally started....
    I bought the green one (SPB153?) in lockdown in '21. I paid £800 via Goldsmiths, they had 20% off & it was delivered the next day. I love it, it's big, it's heavy, it's green, what's not to like? Only drawback for me is the strap comes out of the keeper too easily, I think the keeper slides up until the strap is no longer engaged. But that's a minor niggle...

  38. #88
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    I have the 237. I think its pretty perfect. It was reduced from £1200 to £900 at WatchO which was a fair markdown. Is it worth £1200? That's very subjective but deals often come up so with a bit of patience there is no need to pay full retail for new, and of course used can often be found for less again.

  39. #89
    I keep looking at these, even thought about one of the Steeldive clones just to try to see if it is a watch I can bond with.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevecross View Post
    I keep looking at these, even thought about one of the Steeldive clones just to try to see if it is a watch I can bond with.
    At launch I was thinking of getting the Willard, to see how it felt without spending so much money I picked up the Steeldive version which to be fair was very well put together, eventually I arrived at the conclusion that whilst I liked the way the Steeldive wore I couldn't justify the cost of the Seiko, flipped the Steeldive and lost about £20 better than flipping a Willard and costing hundreds.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    better than flipping a Willard and costing hundreds.
    Agree with this. Sold the limited edition blue 55th Anniversary model for £660.00 recently. RRP was £1230 and from memory I purchased new with 23% discount and a watch box on release. Wish Iíd have exhibited some patience and bought second hand really. Rarely ever buy on impulse these days and a £300 hit on essentially a new watch, felt like a slap in the face. Will not be a mistake I will repeat if I revisit these sub £1500.00 Seiko.

    Coincidentally bought the limited edition 62mas reissue the same month. They seem to have held their money a little better but one Iím still enjoying.

  42. #92
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    Seiko Captain Willard, good value?

    I purchased a 151 from SC for £700 odd quid. It was ok. It felt a bit small to be honest next to my everyday Turtle. I ended up getting an SLA033J1 reissue in the end and the smaller Willard was traded. They are nice though. If your wrist size doesnít like a Turtle then the 151 Willard is the good option :)


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    Last edited by Stilgoe1972; 5th May 2022 at 22:10.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    I have the 237. I think its pretty perfect. It was reduced from £1200 to £900 at WatchO which was a fair markdown. Is it worth £1200? That's very subjective but deals often come up so with a bit of patience there is no need to pay full retail for new, and of course used can often be found for less again.
    Belter that.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middo View Post
    Belter that.
    Thank you, bit of a strap monster too.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I sold it 6 months later and kept this insteadÖ

    I still think about that watch. It was a cracker for the money. I have been looking ever since.

  46. #96
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    Seiko Captain Willard, good value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I bought the SPB151, but from SC for considerably less than RRP. I thought it was excellent and would have hung onto it if the real deal hadn't become available.

    I sold it 6 months later and kept this insteadÖ

    Same here .. six months and then got this.

    Mine Is not the ďreal dealĒ but a lovely watch none the less:) . I loved the idea of a vintage version but I like to wear my watches to work and in water.. so newer contemporary version it was.


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    Last edited by Stilgoe1972; 6th May 2022 at 17:56.

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    Wow, it seems quite a few of you tested the water so to speak.....I have been tempted myself but the current £1200 for the SPB151 new, just seems too much cash for not too much watch.

    I may pick one up pre-owned at some point, in the interim I have ordered a homage to see how I get on with the case shape as do like a cushion case....after checking homage reviews on youtube, I decided on the Rdunae R2X as this seems to be the most faithful to the original 4 O'clock crown/case position (has the Lock arrow on the crown which was a nice touch) even comes on the chocolate bar style strap.

    Let's see how it goes....

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