And if that is the case, you must check the lease regarding uplift of the ground rent. More than a certain frequency (5 or 10 years, I forget), then it will be rejected by mortgage providers and be unbankable.Originally Posted by number2
Not pointless at all. It has coughed up a few ideas for the OP to give consideration to (not living in a development - but buying new in a development)
You are possibly aware of the big problem that flat-owners in Edinburgh (and probably Glasgow too) had with unscrupulous factors who were inflating contractor costs for ridiculous services. Luckily - those factors could be sacked, but maintenance costs cannot be overestimated.
Thanks for all the input everyone. Much appreciated!
Food for thought, but I still love that particular Estate. :)
What prompted you to create this thread? Is your only real concern the resale value?
A tad troll-ish...................
Who does want their house purchase to actually drop in value, if they are considering moving in 5-10yrs (paraphrasing)?
When you factor in Stamp Duty (or whatever it is called now) - for every move, it would be nice if an increase in value might cover that expense?
And there in lies the problem. I moved in to a flat (my first owned property) which had a maintenance charge of £50 back in 2006. Once the development was finished the gits doubled it and then went up roughly 10% each year from that point onwards...
When I sold the property in 2014, I also got charged twice for the sellers packs, once from the association who ran the properties and again from the management company. As a result I do not think I would buy on an estate again and certainly not a leasehold...
For that type of property I would not expect it to stay at £600 for long.
Last edited by L8_M8; 14th June 2020 at 20:23.
I think you’ve misinterpreted my post. I wasn’t suggesting the OP shouldn’t be concerned about resale value, I was just trying to uncover his genuine concerns and if it was about the ‘vibe’ or living on a modern estate.
I’m no expert but I would imagine even houses on new estates, especially in desirable areas such as the one in question would still increase in value over a decade if we ignore what could happen to property prices as a whole if there’s another corona wave etc.
I am currently trying to move house as I’ve posted on the Corona Property Prices thread, I personally think if I buy something now the value will fall in the next year or two then start to grow again.
For 99.9% of people buying a home involves some compromise so I’m also wondering what the OP would compare this house to and the pros and cons etc.
I’m comparing to houses that are more ‘conventionally’ located. One a 3-bed townhouse in Pinner (nice suburb), on the Underground. Refurbished.
Also a 4 bed detached house near Denham in Bakers Wood. Needs work. All about £800k.
Last edited by The Hack; 14th June 2020 at 21:59.
Moved to a small new build of eight properties and very happy we are freehold and as we are a private road we are the owners of the management company listed at companies house, we have a what’s app group and make joint decisions on maintenance etc.Quite honestly leasehold with a separate management company is not for me.
NHBC. insured but the build quality is good and as always there are probs but so far small ones as with all things do the research both on area and builder and of course it’s about affordability at the end of the day.
Last edited by mart broad; 14th June 2020 at 21:59.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
This is my concern too. Houses are something I'd rather buy second, third, or tenth+ hand. ;-)
Where would you prefer to live location wise?
The OP's initial post was purely about location - the part I thought "a bit" pointless. Accepted that the subsequent discussion was more useful.
Who would never buy a house on a new posh ‘Estate’?
Life’s full of compromises unfortunately. Money no object - I’d probably prefer to live in Pinner, but in a house like the Denham one. :)
Ascot is a 3-bed mews house for £800k. Very high quality materials and finish. Nice landscaped garden too, as it’s the current show home. Lovely option anyway.
I live in a new estate similar to the one the OP referenced. We pay a service charge for the communal grounds which has turned out to be about 50% higher than the estimate given at the time we purchased it four years ago. Car parking is a gripe for some - it depends which part of the estate you live in as to whether people ignore the covenants on parking. Snagging was an issue for individual houses - we had quite a few issues sorted early on. Others fared better, others worse. The business model seems to be that the developer subcontracts out the work to whoever is cheapest, with teams moving on regularly so the quality of the build can be patchy. But despite this, we love living here. People are friendly, the environment is beautiful, the houses are very comfortable for modern life. It was a good move for our lifestyle. I don't think it will have been the best move financially. I suspect we would only get roughly what we paid for it now (or at least before the pandemic - goodness knows what that will have done to prices). But I believe the probable lack of price inflation so far is not primarily due to the estate location but the fact that new houses wherever they are tend to come at a premium.
What sort of sum are you paying, and does that cover gardening? Any other bills require paying on top of the standard charge?
I was a bit naive 20yrs ago, in buying a flat which had a reasonable factoring charge, but you get gardening, lighting repairs, drain clearing, leave clearing etc on top.
Having a drive and no cars makes me the most popular neighbour around - for the next couple of weeks the neighbour having an extension is very happy he's got somewhere to park his car and his wife's car. That's another bottle of gin to go in the stash... 😂
Had a misspent youth in that area. I would say it’s Bracknell, but it could be North Ascot. If you aren’t familiar with the area have a good drive around Martin’s Heron and North Ascot. I am assuming it’s a gated development (which will tell you something about the surrounding areas). Where is the other area you are looking at?
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We all value different things. I looked at the link of the estate in question and it's beautiful and interesting, but at those prices I wouldn't want to be so close to other houses. If I'm spending the thick-end of a million, I personally value quiet, privacy, and private space higher than kerb appeal and exclusivity. I don't want to overhear my neighbours in their garden, or smell their BBQ, when I want to be outside. For other people that wouldn't bother them at all. You pays yer' money...
Not all estates are created equally and there are some I've seen that give me what I'd want, but are still part of an estate (/development). The fact it's an estate doesn't bother me, I'm more interested in the property itself, the land, and the layout.
Thanks for the information. It’s not gated actually - free access from the road.
Other main area being considered is Pinner. A NW London suburb on the Metropolitan line. 3-bed 80’s townhouse on a small estate. Small garden.
its horses for courses, some people will never be able to understand spending a million quid to live that close to someone else, others will rather have a new build, with all the benefits that brings nowadays re warmth, technology etc.
we live in a 'posh' estate, and its brilliant, we have lovely neighbours, its peaceful but there are people around, ours is quite small granted, 21 units.
i thank my lucky stars every day that we didnt close on some of the old detached properties we were interest in originally.
of course if you want an acre and a shed for 4 cars its not for you.
if you have youngish kids living in an estate is better. IMO.
I am involved with a few Berkeley Homes projects at work and from my experience, I would NEVER buy any of their properties unless I had personally had had an involvement in them.
There is no denying they have good kerb appeal but I have seen some horrors during construction. Feel free to PM me, probably better not to discuss on an open forum. No scaremongering, but it is absolutely something to be aware of.
Last edited by rico; 15th June 2020 at 11:19.
It's great while you have 'lovely' neighbors. It's when they move and the slobs move in.
(Insert link to Harry Enfield's slobs here) ..... Wish I knew how to do it.
Last edited by sprite1275; 15th June 2020 at 11:21.
Being from the area and driving that road most days. It is usually a VERY busy main road, with two admittedly mostly boarding schools within a stone's throw, it can be a pig. Just so you know
Is it nicer than where I live ..yes.
Are there nicer places for the money in Ascot... probably.
Would I live there.....not for that money.
if the slobs can afford to buy here then good luck to them!
we pay around 1500gbp pa - the biggest cost is for the gardening - about 2/3 of the total. Then there are various smaller costs including road maintenance (the roads aren't adopted), pond maintenance, insurance, gritting (not needed this year), tree maintenance (there are about 600 mature trees with TPOs and when one dies or needs a branch removing, the bill is not pennies). Plus a sinking fund. The cost at our estate is (unusually) calculated on the square footage of the house so the smallest houses probably pay around half that sum - it is usually either a flat rate or some sort of banding based on the number of bedrooms). To put it in perspective, Council Tax is around 3800gbp pa IIRC. We have a Residents Association that endeavours to keep the costs reasonable by holding the management company to account as best we can. One thing to be aware of is that the service charge for the communal areas of freehold properties is a bit of a minefield - you don't have the same legal protections that leaseholders have (though I would never buy a leasehold property, certainly not house).
Thanks for the local perspective. Always useful! :)
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for the local perspective. Always useful! :)
Last edited by The Hack; 15th June 2020 at 13:07.
Personally for me not at those prices, I would want a nice huge house out in a small village somewhere.
On a side not computers and facebook need to )&%%^^ off! I read this thread (on my work PC) then picked up my phone and I now have an advert on Facebook to buy the Berkley Group houses! My phone and work PC aren't even linked!
'Never' is a big word (well, it's not, but I'm sure you understand what I mean).
I would favour an older house over a newer one for a number of reasons, you usually get more space outside, the area is usually more mature naturally (can depend a lot on the area, though, my Aunt's house in Twickenham was in a 1930s street, but there wasn't a tree in sight), rooms can be bigger (again, not always true) and you usually get more space for cars (When we added a 4th bedroom to our house we had to provide off road parking for 3 cars - My wife's sister estate house built a couple of years later had 5 bedrooms and 2 parking spaces, so you can see how that works...).
That said, as others have mentioned, there's no shortage of people looking for small, low maintenance gardens, happy with 1 or 2 parking 'spaces' and all the (expected) lack of hassle from a new(ish) house.
I don't think it'll make much difference, to be honest.
I couldn't afford a studio flat in Ascot and it's only 10 miles away!
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Hack - why are you comparing Pinner/Denham to Ascot out of interest. I am at the other end of that borough. Lots of Berkeley development here as well though I have not had any feedback on their quality.
Someone said estates are good for kids. We bought a detached pretty spacious house with garden. Its in a quiet area but on a main road. Only regret is the heating bills and it not being warm in the winter. Everything else i love about it. Not sure I could live in a property for that much but still be in a semi detatched where you can hear your neighbors through the walls.
I would like to sell up and get a smaller detached that I could extend to make some profit but the wife wont let me.
Hack,
I see you have Pinner down as a decent area with a tube link. I agree it's a pretty nice place.
However, maybe worth a look a bit further out, Amersham, Chesham? Both on the tube too.
Cheers,
Neil.
We’ve been looking in Amersham too. Not so keen on Chesham. :)
To be honest we’ve been looking all over the place. From Amersham to Weybridge, via Windsor. :)
Interesting question.
We've always preferred older houses on the basis that:
- They tend to be bigger with more outdoor space
- They are typically more individual / unique
- There is more opportunity to add value to them
We bought a 1920s house last year and refurbished it from top to bottom including rewiring, remodelling, flooring, new kitchen, bathrooms etc. living in a flat while this was completed. The previous owner sold some of the land from our property to a high-end developer who built an estate of 10ish individual and large houses which were completed by the time we moved in. There is a lot of green space around the new development and the houses do not overlook each other or our house. I understand that our previous owner had a hand in stipulating what could be built and their siting to help ensure his house had a good value. The houses are a touch larger than ours, exceptionally large even by new build standards, have less outdoor space and parking, and are less unique. While I prefer to live where we are, and the price was significantly less even including the refurb, I would happily live in one of the surrounding new builds. Less so other executive houses we have looked at in the past.
I've yet to see a new build estate that has what I would term 'enough' parking for the house. By enough, if it's a 4 bed house I think it's fair to expect there to be 2 adults and 2 children. That's 4 cars eventually.
Every estate I have driven through recently has been full of cars. Lockdown hasn't helped but it just doesn't look nice.
We're lucky enough (in my eyes) to have a 16th century house with a load of old extensions on it sat in 12 acres. It's weird and old, when you fix one thing something else breaks but we aren't overlooked by anyone. My last two houses have been similar just not as private. Old, need a lot of work and come with some compromises. Wouldn't consider buying a new build myself but it's all just a case of what we prefer.
Thanks.
If I liked the house enough, then yes, but that's unlikely.
Although our current house was new when we moved in (in 1997), it's a bit unusual.
I'm more of an older house / cottage person really.
Parking is often an issue in new build developments these days due to planning density requirements.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Could show you mine, can get 6 cars on it 😉
Still own one of two houses that we've bought new (moved out in 2012 and rented it since).
5 Bed detached on development of 5 houses (getting on for 1/3 million in 2001), the snagging list was epic and the majority of the fixes were slapdash - I avoid the situation where you handover the money before you see the product when any serious sum is involved now ...
Currently attempting to get rid of it following a bad tenant and changes in BTL rules - as a final sting in the tail it's just cost me a 5 figure sum to have the roof redone (stripped and re-laid with new membrane, batons, did manage to re-use 80% of the tiles though) - after 19 years the felt that they had used had completely deteriorated and just crumbled in your hands. The roofer has already signed up one of the neighbours for the same work so they are probably all as bad (I'm not due a commission unfortunately).
As has been said already - the UK housing shortage means many just have to suck up the shocking practices of the house builders.
Pity that we can't buy houses from abroad - in which case the current crop of house builders would go the same way British Leyland (other cr@p UK car makers ̶a̶r̶e̶ were available)
Definitely not for me estate living, we have several gated estate/communities a few hundred yards away, it seems the big electric gate implores all its residents to a higher level than us mere mortals!
What you also find in certain middle class estates is do gooders wanting monthly meetings about parking/bins etc, from this you then have WhatsApp groups created, unfortunately I got roped into our street WA group, a few days of that and it was muted!
I look after the elderly close to me and have great neighbors left and right, but I don’t want to be part of a Truman Show community, admittedly you are not going to get exclusivity of acres of land, quad garage, workshop and not being overlooked in Ascot for anything in the six figure range.
The below house suits me!
That’s a lovely house and setting, but I’d be terrified of home invasions, kidnapping, being snowed in, flooded, electricity blackouts and miles to the nearest Tesco Express. ;)
Definitely not for me estate living, we have several gated estate/communities a few hundred yards away, it seems the big electric gate implores all its residents to a higher level than us mere mortals!
What you also find in certain middle class estates is do gooders wanting monthly meetings about parking/bins etc, from this you then have WhatsApp groups created, unfortunately I got roped into our street WA group, a few days of that and it was muted!
I look after the elderly close to me and have great neighbors left and right, but I don’t want to be part of a Truman Show community, admittedly you are not going to get exclusivity of acres of land, quad garage, workshop and not being overlooked in Ascot for anything in the six figure range.
The below house suits me!
We live on an estate so new it's not even on google maps yet.
We were lucky, out place has very decent room sizes and our plot is right on the outer corner, this means no through traffic, our back garden is not casually overlooked (there are one or 2 houses that could see in if they leaned out of an upper story window) and the views out all include mature hedgerow and trees.
I'd certainly be wary of buying in the middle of an estate or on a main 'artery' but bought carefully I don;t think estates hold any more disadvantages than villages or towns.
And I the opposite. Love the idea of nicely isolated. The cut off aspect makes things more fun occasionally. Being in the midlands in the UK proper isolation isn't something you would suffer like being cut off somewhere like Canada. We have a cupboard of things that keep for ages in case we do get snowed in. Probably have 1 to 2 weeks of food in there that we would get by on.
These new estates don’t work for me price wise. Never seen one where you aren’t paying a large premium over local £/sqft prices. Yes you get a warm new house but no value per sqft. Also be careful of access and leasehold shenanigans.........
I forgot to add - I find new houses tend to have low ceilings and small windows. While I'm sure this contributors to energy efficiency, I do like the space of higher ceilings and the light from bigger windows.
We have lived in a variety of properties over the years from tenement flats to our present country cottage.
We really enjoyed our time in a detached 5 bed in a mature 70s estate. Huge mature garden backing onto woodlands. Garage admittedly not big enough for anything bigger than a Mini, but with room on drive for 4 cars.
When SWMBO was not sure where her job would take her we rented for what ended up nearly 3 years in a “new” estate. All mod cons, but scratch below surface and quality was poor. The houses were cheek by jowl, no pavements as such and pretty tiny gardens. Complete arseholes for immediate neighbours, though most were lovely. Couldn’t stand the lack of privacy.
Currently we live in “the middle of nowhere” in what was previously 2 cottages knocked together. 5 min drive from big Supermarket. One neighbour next door about 15 yds away but not overlooking with mature trees shrubs separating gardens.
Yes it’s harder to heat, maintenance has to be kept up and till 4g internet could be had unlimited we had crappy sub 1mbs at the end of a very old very long copper phone line. Private water supply and septic tank.
We couldn’t be happier!
Well planned estates can be great, but for me you can keep these modern closely developed ones thanks.
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I’ll expand on my earlier post regarding parking. We live on a new village / town development. We started in ‘village 1’ 5 years ago and moved to ‘village 4’ late last year.
V1 was really nice with lots of parks but parking was a nightmare, few drives, ‘allocates parking’ and narrow streets that were permanently clogged with cars ‘up the pavement’.
V4 is very different, lots more traditional 2 or more car drives, still some ‘allocated parking’ but with much better access to ensure it’s used. Wider roads with more unallocated bays.
I do think the developers learned lessons and altered their thinking to allow for modern life and families.
Our place is a 5 bed detached with a double garage, 2 side by side spaces on the drive and 2 further places in ‘bays’. If we have a party we can fit another 3 or 4 cars on our drive if other guests don’t mind being blocked in. As for room size the floor plan and square footage is similar but better to the cheapest 5 bed semi / townhouse in the OPs link but cost just over half as much. Admittedly we are in a far less prestigious area than Ascot but we are 45 mins from central London and set to get better in a few years when the nearby station is completed.
Would I prefer a similar size property on acres of land in the middle of nowhere? Hell yes. But having a family means compromise for things like kids and wife’s social life.
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This rings true for me. Looked around a five bed show house about four years ago on a development in the village. Asking price was about £700k. Finishing was rubbish. Obviously built to a price by people who didn’t give a toss. Doors didn’t fit or close properly, plastering was crap, and the kitchen and bathroom fitting was terrible. And that was the ‘show home’. Add in small gardens, not enough parking, and minimal space between neighbouring properties.
The expression ‘you’re having a laugh’ didn’t seem to shock the two ladies in the office to be honest! 😂
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Build your own if you can, much better than a what is probably a rushed estate that likely had substandard workers and materials and then overpriced....
As someone who has bought and renovated 4 older houses, they look absolutely superb when finished, they just have so much character, all Victorian houses.
We bought a new build in December 2017, this was because of the kids, we live in a cul de sac of 7 houses, the kids are out playing all the time with there friends and we have got great neighbours, often have dinner parties and BBQ’s.
This won’t be our forever house, as soon as the kids are older we will be buying an older property again.
It all depends what stage of your life you are at.....
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