How Much Value on Movement? Omega Aqua Terra vs Tudor BB ETA

[davidj54]

I’m asking the question in this article from a position of much ignorance! I’m really no expert on watch movements, just the basics.

Long story short - I’m a small collection bloke, four watches max, with one higher end one as a daily wearer, ideally monochrome, sporty with a touch of dressability, understated, but good quality. Started with a Sarb033, switched to a second hand Tudor Heritage Ranger and last year I flipped and bought a new Tudor Black Bay 41. Within the next year I think I’ll be making the leap to a black dial Omega Aqua Terra, the latest model. Pic for reference.




But here’s the rub. I really like my BB41, and casually comparing it to the AT there aren’t many differences, superficially at least. Swiss made, 316L steel, monochrome aesthetic, good lume, 41mm case, sapphire crystal, 150m WR, excellent bracelet. The bracelet on the Tudor is class and I fail to see that the Omega’s could be superior.

One big difference is price. The BB41 retails at £2350 (I got mine for £2150 before the latest hike). The AT retails at £4610. Even with a discount, we’re still talking a +£2000 difference.

The other significant difference is movement. The BB41 houses the no date ETA 2824, which, from what I have read is heavily modified by Tudor with the addition of a new balance cock, a Trivois fine adjustment system and Kif shock absorption, before being regulated. It makes for straightforward and inexpensive servicing, and keeps the BB41 lean on wrist at just 11mm case thickness.

The Aqua Terra 41 has Omega’s in-house 8900 COSC and METAS certified Master Chronometer movement (the 38mm AT has the 8800, the difference being it has quick set date whereas the 8900 has a time zone function on the hour hand). Supposedly these Omega movements are technological marvels, using a double barrel system, 60 hour power reserve, silicone parts to reduce friction, accurate to fractions of a second and magnetic resistant up to 15000 Gauss, all under 4 year warranty. The movements - and presumably display casebacks, make for thicker watches with the AT 41 being over 13mm thick and the 38 just over 12mm thick.

(I took details of both movements from reviews on the Timeless Luxury website, this isn’t just detail I’m casually rolling out!).

So I guess the question I’m asking is, if most other things are equal (for those in the know - are they? Or am I way off the mark here?), then how much value do you put on a movement? Is the Omega movement so superior to the Tudors that it’s warrants the watch costing twice the RRP? Does anyone think Omega have more brand cache than Tudor (genuine question)?

As I say I’m no expert and am genuinely interested in folks opinions on here.

Cheers


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[ColDaspin]

Beyond a certain price point (and both these watches are well above it), I think it's mostly a fool's errand trying to justify price differences based on objective criteria. You can also get a watch as well finished as the Tudor for half its price.

I think a clear case can be made for claiming the Omega movement is better, but whether that translates into improved real-life performance on the wrist is another matter. Similarly, I think the Omega finishing is a notch above that of the Tudor but, ultimately, you're paying mostly for the brand and only you can know how much that's worth to you.

That said, it sounds as though you're pretty happy with the Tudor so, if I were you, I'd stick with it rather than convince yourself of the need to 'upcost'. It's an excellent watch in its own right.

[aldfort]

Depends why you want it. The Omega movement is different. You could spend a long time debating if it was better. Same with the watches. The only way to know is to compare side by side.

[Pagan]

Personally, I'd prefer the ETA. Proven reliability, serviceability for as long as you're likely to live. Counts for more in my eyes than the prestige which is attached to in house developed movements. And for me, counts for more than the admittedly more impressive innovative matchmaking offered by the omega, when it comes to which I would actually rather have for everyday use.

[hafle]

Personally, I'd prefer the ETA. Proven reliability, serviceability for as long as you're likely to live. Counts for more in my eyes than the prestige which is attached to in house developed movements. And for me, counts for more than the admittedly more impressive innovative matchmaking offered by the omega, when it comes to which I would actually rather have for everyday use.

My issue is that this is the same movemwnt, with lesser WR, than you see in watches costing a couple of hundred pounds. I love the idea of a bb36, a doxa, but I can't see any kind of value for money given the movement or WR.

[MartynJC (UK)]

For me - the movement and innovation is important. So if all other things were being equal (which they are not in this case - I just cannot get on with the BB handset aesthetic) I would get the omega if I already had an ETA.

Interestingly the newer BB movements are not ETA , but developed in collaboration with Breitling (those with the new 70h power reserve).

[enndriz]

The ETA in the Tudor is not just a run if the mill 2824. Look into what Tudor do the eta movements they use. the ETA in my BB has ran like an absolute top in the 3 yrs I’ve had it - never wavered more than 1-2secs per day in ANY position.

If you want the best watch on paper, by all means go for the in house movement with the super duper power reserve. But you won’t be wearing the spec sheet on your wrist, so always go with the watch you prefer!


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[hafle]

The ETA in the Tudor is not just a run if the mill 2824. Look into what Tudor do the eta movements they use. the ETA in my BB has ran like an absolute top in the 3 yrs I’ve had it - never wavered more than 1-2secs per day in ANY position.

If you want the best watch on paper, by all means go for the in house movement with the super duper power reserve. But you won’t be wearing the spec sheet on your wrist, so always go with the watch you prefer!


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To be quite fair, I had a similar experience with many brands using the 2824. No fancy customization etc, yet kept the same time as watches costing 10x ad much. It's partly why I made my thread about COSC.

[Pagan]

My issue is that this is the same movemwnt, with lesser WR, than you see in watches costing a couple of hundred pounds. I love the idea of a bb36, a doxa, but I can't see any kind of value for money given the movement or WR.

Firstly, I don't think water resistance is some kind of objective measure of the quality of the watch. That would be weird. Water resistance should be appropriate to the purpose of the watch, and 150m is bang on for a versatile everyday sports watch.

Secondly, it's not the same movement that's in watches costing a couple of hundred quid. The base ETA calibre comes in three grades for a start, and you won't find the top grade in any watch costing less than a grand that I know of. Then Tudor do extensive work on the movement after that - they don't just slap on a rotor and call it a day.

I think a lot of the prestige which surrounds in house movements is weird anyway though. Why would I pay a lot more money to have someone reinvent the wheel, and in some cases, do a worse job of it than ETA did 40 years ago?

[ped]

I always go in house if I can. I feel like I’m buying a companies product rather than a watch design with someone else’s engine in it.

[walkerwek1958]

Don’t underestimate ETA movements, if the balance is carefully poised they’re capable of excellent performance.

Having said that, I would buy the watch you prefer and wouldn’t worry about the movement.

[helidoc]

Retail price has very little to do with engineering cost, so price tends to relate to brand power and iconic design.

Comparing the two:

The Aqua Terra is a more appealing design, although I would take a smaller size

The Omega’s movement shows more finesse

Omega is higher up the brand hierarchy

Whether those qualities are worth the money is a personal choice, although I note the Aqua Terra’s street price is nearer £3400

Dave


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[xellos99]

Only had good luck with ETA.

I don't believe a ridiculously expensive movement is necessary, something for high earners to play with

[NCC66]

I think that in this case, the movement has little to do with the price difference. Yes, the Omega movement is indeed supposed to be a magnificent triumph of engineering but as others have said, the ETA in your Tudor is far from standard and you’ve shown yourself, that in the real world, it’s as accurate as anyone could realistically care about.

No, I think the price difference is largely down to brand cachet. Outside of (and probably from within) the watch community, the Omega brand simply carries much more weight and can therefore charge considerably more. We’ve all seen their prices creep (rocket?) up over recent years and people keep buying them. Tudor on the other hand, are far less well known and although that’s starting to change, they’ve a way to go. I say this as a bit of a Tudor fan. I’ve previously gone to my local Omega/Tudor AD with the intention of buying an AT or Seamaster 300, only to come out with a BB. Twice... Both with the ‘in-house’ movement but still far, far cheaper than the equivalent Omega.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m still a big fan of Omega too. I’m pretty sure I’ll be buying one as soon as I have the funds, assuming this whole lockdown/shielding thing eventually comes to an end.

Last thing. The only watch I will never sell just so happens to be an Omega. One with an ETA movement!


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[abraxas]

I always go in house if I can. I feel like I’m buying a companies product rather than a watch design with someone else’s engine in it.

I believe (I am only going by memory) that the 2824-2 was originally created for Rolex to be used in their (cheaper) Tudor range.

[PreacherCain]

I think the honest answer is "buy the watch you prefer". The 8500 derived movements are great, I've got two of them and they're accurate, robust, I find (or found, back when international travel was a thing) the independent hour hand useful, and the longer reserve is helpful too. Finally, the movement finishing is lovely. The 2824 is as others have said, also highly robust, adjustable to equivalent accuracy and readily repairable, so you pays your money...

I've always liked the fact that a movement is only part of a watch, though - judge the watch by the whole package, and how much you like it. As others have said, trying to make objective arguments for one watch being "better" than another at this sort of price point is a fool's errand.

[BSB]

I've had quite a few watches with ETA movements including, currently, three Helson Shark Divers all with the 25-jewel version of the ETA 2824-2 and I'm amazed to report that all three keep time to within around 1spd at the moment. However, I also have a PO 8500 that I've had since new in Nov 2011 that used to keep the best time of any mechanical watch I've ever had at around 1 second per month! The in-house Omega movement also utilises the co-axial escapement that, with less need for lubrication than a conventional lever escapement should mean longer periods before servicing becomes necessary. Only now, after eight and a half years am I looking to get the PO serviced. I would though defer to what most posters have said in that you should buy what you prefer.

[Pagan]

I've had quite a few watches with ETA movements including, currently, three Helson Shark Divers all with the 25-jewel version of the ETA 2824-2 and I'm amazed to report that all three keep time to within around 1spd at the moment. However, I also have a PO 8500 that I've had since new in Nov 2011 that used to keep the best time of any mechanical watch I've ever had at around 1 second per month! The in-house Omega movement also utilises the co-axial escapement that, with less need for lubrication than a conventional lever escapement should mean longer periods before servicing becomes necessary. Only now, after eight and a half years am I looking to get the PO serviced. I would though defer to what most posters have said in that you should buy what you prefer.

Accuracy is about adjustment and luck though really isn't it?

That's why, if accuracy is a concern, it's advisable to buy something new, in warranty, which specifies accuracy to a standard you're comfortable with, so at least you can get it regulated for free.

[BSB]

Accuracy is about adjustment and luck though really isn't it?

That's why, if accuracy is a concern, it's advisable to buy something new, in warranty, which specifies accuracy to a standard you're comfortable with, so at least you can get it regulated for free.

I think you're largely correct - regulation is key. However, the level of accuracy should, in theory be held longer in the co-axial movement due to the lesser effect of the breakdown of viscosity in the oil as so much less oil is required. Having said that, one of the Helsons is from Sept 2012 and is 1spd - mind you, that could mean it was further out accuracy-wise at one point I guess.

[sweets]

When you look at the AT more closely, you will see that the casework, dial and hands are all very much more superior to the Tudor, as well as the movement.
The dial is textured, the indices faceted, the hands faceted too, not just polished flat metal.
There is a lot more to the difference than the movement.
And used the 8500 series ATs are pretty good value.
I am a Tudor fan, but there is no contest here on quality.
D

[Idontgram]

I’ve tried both of them on, though owned neither so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.

The aqua terra has a more ‘modern’ movement and more complicated finishing, which is not meant as any discredit to the workmanship in the BB41.

Conversely, the BB range offers really good value for money and you generally get diminishing returns as you climb up the watch-cost ladder. The reworked ETA in them are significantly superior to a base or middle-range ETA.

If the BB41 makes you happy and you have to ask about what to you may be imperceptible differences between the two, I would suggest you stick with what you know brings you joy. If you’ve tried the AT, fell in love with it and are so determined to have a watch with a co-axial escapement that you’d be happy to part with a watch you really enjoy, then that’s a different matter...

[Neil.C]

The Omega overall is far more sophisticated in all the important areas, case, dial/furniture and movement.

However it comes down to which you prefer.

[MartynJC (UK)]

OP. Looks like you have made your mind up:

But here’s the rub. I really like my BB41

(sic).

You mean you like the BB41? There is your answer!

Myself - I prefer the Omega out of those two pictured (as, for me, I can’t get past the hour hand on a BB - if they stuck a Mercedes hand on things would change, and prefer the Omega case size / fit and finish).

You can order the Omega online and have a 14d return period if you don’t gel. Has to be returned in same condition as sent out of course!

I prefer this one:

[MartynJC (UK)]

Accuracy is about adjustment and luck though really isn't it?

That's why, if accuracy is a concern, it's advisable to buy something new, in warranty, which specifies accuracy to a standard you're comfortable with, so at least you can get it regulated for free.

slightly OT - I am ashamed of my 5146J performance in the British Summer Time Challenge (where is the salt shaker). I could get it regulated - but don’t want to be without it for 4-6months - if it went to Patek service centre. I may take it to Wempe, Bond St. (if / when I can) for some on-site regulation.

Relevant to this post - you could spend £30,000 on a watch with hand finished parts and movement etc etc Tested to 6 degrees and regulated - but get a better accuracy from a £2K watch. It depends what is important to you.

[Pagan]

slightly OT - I am ashamed of my 5146J performance in the British Summer Time Challenge (where is the salt shaker). I could get it regulated - but don’t want to be without it for 4-6months - if it went to Patek service centre. I may take it to Wempe, Bond St. (if / when I can) for some on-site regulation.

Relevant to this post - you could spend £30,000 on a watch with hand finished parts and movement etc etc Tested to 6 degrees and regulated - but get a better accuracy from a £2K watch. It depends what is important to you.

Or indeed from a £200 watch. I've had a seiko 7s26 which ran within COSC.

[oldoakknives]

Retail price has very little to do with engineering cost, so price tends to relate to brand power and iconic design.

Comparing the two:

The Aqua Terra is a more appealing design, although I would take a smaller size

The Omega’s movement shows more finesse

Omega is higher up the brand hierarchy

Whether those qualities are worth the money is a personal choice, although I note the Aqua Terra’s street price is nearer £3400

Dave


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Agree with this. And the Omega movement is worth the difference. If you want an ETA movement there are much cheaper options that look as good if not better than the Tudor.

[Stuno1]

Personally I like the idea of in-house movements and advancements unique to brands. That a big part of the hobby and omega movements are superb. With the AT you get an exhibition case back as well which is a nice touch. Also I think it has a nicer more detailed dial with white gold markers and hands that the Tudor does not. The omega does a better job of being dressed up while remaining casual as well. In the hand the omega is clearly the better of the two watches for me.