Reply With QuoteNice blistering on the crust too.Tried the moisture technique recently, sprayed the banneton with water & then rice flour, the result was what I’d hoped for first time, came out easily.
I almost did it last time, so keen to get it in the oven. Glad we all have moments of baking genius!Originally Posted by Kingstepper
Nice blistering on the crust too.Tried the moisture technique recently, sprayed the banneton with water & then rice flour, the result was what I’d hoped for first time, came out easily.
Cheers, was happy although liked the pattern from the banneton being visible on the bread as per my first bake.
Unsure if this was the rye I’d used vs rice flour sticking more to the bread or the longer fridge time it received.
My first sourdough of the year.
I only had limited success last year so gave up.
Tried again last week with the starter after reading this thread, and just pulled this out the oven.
I'll taste test once it's cooled, but definitely the best looking one I've done.Attachment 18232
Looking great, my first one still looked the best, last 3 haven't got my cuts as good....time to perfect it
Still can’t get my slashes correct, but the bread is great. Just want the visual impact; guess I need to cut deeper.
The sourdough:
The flour (four of them):
The shaped loafs:
The bread:
That looks great.The sourdough:
The flour (four of them):
The shaped loafs:
The bread:
What is your hydration?
I think mine was way too wet as it just slumped out of fridge overnight, yours looks firmer and would keep shape better.
I think this is 65%.
Thanks.
I'll try again the weekend and see how it turns out.
They look great! What flour are you using in your bannetons?
Any one of the ingredients, couldn't tell you if it was wheat or rye.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Interesting. My first was Rye and then following all the online advice tried Rice.
However it never captures the lines from the basket & think it looks amazing when it does, so thinking of reverting back.
Not entirely sure what to use the kilo of rice four for though if it do!
Any tips for slashing the dough? Mine seem to have gotten progressively less impressive as per this photo of the most recent.
Compared to my first cut, and with the flour marks
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Mine above are not slashed at all, simply bake them with the 'folded' side up and they will nicely rupture on their own.
Here is another one which I baked folded-side up:
If I bake with the folded side down, I slash them and it looks like this:
Interesting, might have to give that a go - love the natural look of it.
Some of the ‘art’ you see in the cuts are amazing, and I’m struggling with just a slash! Just done the second stretch & fold, so will be in the fridge from mid afternoon & then bake Sunday / Monday.
I’ve not gone beyond 48hrs in the fridge yet, as don’t want to ruin all the effort to get that far.
Seeing your two bannetons reminds me I must purchase an oval one. Although I always cook in my round Dutch oven, so will have to adapt my technique with a water tray I guess.
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I bake them freely in the oven, no need for dutch oven or pot.
When I am cutting, I use a razor blade so that I don't have to apply too much pressure to the loaf. The cut will open nicely if you have a good oven raise left in the dough. Making sure you have high temperature and good steam help the oven raise. I always bake the first 10 minutes at 250°C and then lower to 200-220° for the rest of the bake.
I’m starting at 230C for 15 mins before removing from the pot and lowering, so might try hotter for less time with this one.
I’ve tried my cheap lame and also a bare DE blade which I thought worked better. Might look at a handle for them,l to see it that improves it at all.
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Cracking guys.
My effort with Nuvola this evening.
Trust you are well chaps.
Pitch
Loser with your pretend peel!!
Looking good mate, I want to bake some but am nowhere near my 48hr fridge prove time.
Anyone had any success with a tiger bread style of crust? Know it’s a little OT but having purchased a loaf from an artisan place earlier, I’m loving the fact the kitchen smells as good as it does from it.
Does this count? Not really tiger bread, just folded-side down and no slashing.
It looks the part, but missing whatever they brush on top for that tangy flavour.
A sugar wash i think for tiger bread.
Just did a bit of research, rice paste some salt and sesame oil, which makes sense given the flavour.
Also a way to use up all the rice flour I have too.
I've been disappointed with my bread recently. It's tasting ok but not that sourdough look and spring. Tried changing a few things then this week past I've been taking more care of my starter. Reduced to a small quantity and fed/discarded to try and give it more oomph.
I reckon that was my problem, I'm pleased with today's baking.
10% spelt loaf.
That looks superb! Might try the tri-cut tomorrow on mine, although like the ease of quartering with the 4 cross.
I’ve adopted the approach of Bake with Jack, keeping about 20g I’d starter in the fridge & bringing it out to feed when required. Although scared of killing it so give it a weekly feed regardless.
My starter is still not as airy as some on here, but more than doubles in size overnight & ready to start with the dough in the morning, so can’t complain.
This effort is with reducing the hydration.
It's easier to form the shape and keeps it way better.
Oven spring was better than I've had before.
I'd been feeding my starter for the last few days 30g flour 30g water, initially it doubled in size after a few hours, once I'd built up the starter volume the rise was getting less and less.
So I tried feeding the same weight that was already in the jar and it went crazy again.
So once the starter builds up you need to increase the amount of feed to compensate, or reduce the starter, which I wasn't doing.
Attachment 18252Attachment 18253
Another success today, although it had grown huge in the banneton over 48hrs in the fridge slight funny shape where the dough, Dutch oven & parchment didn’t allow the full loaf diameter to fit, but it baked ok.
Still can’t seem to cut it well, just drags at the dough.
Super nice. Stop the complaining and enjoy your bread.
I know, I have a desire to achieve perfection which ultimately makes me a miserable sod as don’t achieve!Super nice. Stop the complaining and enjoy your bread.
I see the lovely art with slicing leaves etc & I can’t even make a neat cross. This was a new DE blade & still dragged the dough. I tried slow & steady as well as fast an deep (snigger) but nothing worked. An evening on YouTube I feel.
Will be trying a rye blend next time. Although all these carbs, pizzas and my draft beer machine are not helping my work shirts fit when I return to the office next year!
Slashing is definitely a skill. I can't do it properly yet.
I know it's me. My neighbour owns a bakery and she's tried to teach me.
Same dough, same blade and with a flick of the wrist she does a perfect clean, deep score and mine looks like I've used a pair of Crayola safety scissors.
Last edited by joe1978; 20th September 2020 at 18:21.
Haha I’m with you there! I might be better with round ended scissors lol.
I need some help from the sourdough gods.
The last half a dozen loaves have had some tunnelling which while annoying has not stopped me eating them, however it’s been one step away from having a huge cavern in the top of the loaf, often they form in the top half. I get good oven spring and now using a smaller banneton I get a slightly tighter shape (using a big wide casserole not a proper Dutch oven.
My recipe is:
400g strong white,
200g light rye
420 water
12g salt
150 levain.
Method:
Give starter a bit of a feed day before.
9am Levain, 50g starter, 50g flour, 50g water (water left to stand for a day)
3pm ish once levain has doubled at room temp or in airing cupboard if below 21° Mix flour/water for autolyse.
30min > add salt then levain > mix.
30 min x3 stretch and fold for just over a minute usually until I feel the dough resist and tighten up.
After 3 stretch and folds I might do another 30 min and see how the dough feels and if it windowpanes before shaping.
Shaping, try not to use much flour and not long drags as I don’t want a pocket to form in the middle, tend to do small moves and twists, get some small blisters forming on the outside, I try to be fairly gentle with the dough. Once in the banneton there might be a small crease in the base but I’ll use a wet finger and pull this closed. So by about 5-6pm it gets put in a plastic bag and then into fridge.
Next morning I fully warm oven and pot to 250°, turn out loaf which often has a few bubbles on the base.
Straight into pot and a X slash on top.
20min at 250° and usually get the spring only in the last 5min (pot has glass lid)
Then lid off down to 205° and the fan setting on low for about 33min.
I’m guessing it’s the gluten structure that’s not right? Not sure what to change though? Yes it’s high hydration but not had problems when i first started baking, I was hopeful the new batch of Shipton mill flour would change things but I’m still getting the same results. It’s not that warm in the kitchen now but as for the starter I’ll use the airing cupboard if it’s below 21°
Will be making dough tomorrow so any advice welcome.
I've re-read what you have written a few times and I think there are two possible issues.
The first is in the shaping; I think with a long overnight prove in the fridge you can afford to be more aggressive and to knock the trapped air out - the style of shaping applied is determined by the banneton used.
Second, try a different scoring pattern, which again can be determined by the shape of banneton used. If it's a boule, maybe try a hatching rather than a star, or if it's an oval try the end to end cut with a bit of creative scoring on one side. Whatever style is adopted, remember to get the 45 degree angle.
Another tip. Cut out a circle of baking paper about an inch larger than the base of the casserole, sprinkle some rice flour onto the bottom of the dough, turn this out onto the baking paper then score the top. With the casserole at top temperature place two ice cubes in the base, lower the baking paper into the casserole and whack the lid back on. The ice will give your dough an immediate injection of steam which assists the rise. Keep lid on for 25 minutes, remove and then bake for a further 25 to 30 minutes.
I've sat here for thirty minutes trying to work out how to upload pictures, but I still can't crack it. PM me if you want any WhatsApp piccies. Nick
Nick, thanks will re-read your post tomorrow when I make the loaf.
But What you say about handling the dough and shaping is what I had read re building the gluten mesh and while not ‘knocking back’ being a bit firmer with the stretch and fold so the bigger bubbles will be removed and hopefully more structure in the loaf.
I already have the dough on a baking parchment circle as it’s easier to slide off the board and keep its shape, the smaller banneton and big pot means there will be room for a couple of ice cubes.
I haven’t been scoring at 45° either so will try that too and not a cross cut.
So an improvement on distribution as the holes are smaller and not high up in the loaf but not perfect, crust is really nice and the loaf tastes great, i stretched/folded for longer each time and did 4 in total not 3 as i felt the dough wasn’t quite ready, and when shaping flattened and then folded like an envelope after turning out before the final shaping, had to do a small tuck in the middle once in the banneton. added the ice and did 25 not 20 mins, didn’t quite get the spring of previous loaves and had a slightly flatter loaf which is to be expected as my pot is not a dutch oven. scoring pattern was different though i might go back to the cross next time and go deeper and at an angle, i don’t have a proper lame but use a scalpel dipped in water which gives a cleaner cut without dragging.
not sure what to change next? loaf will always be slightly denser as it’s 2:1 white/light rye. but be good to have better distribution if possible.
Great tip on wetting the blade, will have to try that as always drags. Realised I’ve forgotten to feed my starter for a while, hoping I can recover it!
Think the bread looks great, I feel mine is too uniform with its holes etc. I follow the easy sourdough guide from Bake with Jack.
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I've been doing this recently too. I hated throwing away starter so I think I was not discarding enough. Now I discard nearly all of it into another container and then refresh at a ratio of 1 starter: 20 flour: 20 water. The starter is now a lot more active.
A few loaves pictured above show the same problem I often encounter, big holes in the middle, a tight crumb elsewhere and a gummy consistency in places. I think this is due to overproofing and shaping with flour. These two factors are probably interrelated, overproofing leads to my dough becoming sticky and very hard to shape so I add flour to help handle it. I am now trying to do the bulk of shaping wet, then move to the floured bench only for the very last shaping. If it spreads all over the bench at that point and won't hold shape and I'm frantically trying to build tension in the skin by tucking floured folds underneath it's a certainty that those are not going to bind together and I'll end up with these caves inside.
Edit: The other thing I have been thinking about is gluten breakdown factors apart from overproofing, for example added (fungal) and natural amylases in the flour, starter being too acidic and inactive. I would like to try some flour that has no added amylase for comparison.
Last edited by ernestrome; 16th October 2020 at 10:20.
This has great spring and ears, watched a few vids on gluten structure so this one had 45min between folds which were done wet on the worktop which seems a better way of doing it than in the bowl, back to the cross cut which I prefer but at an angle this time, I have seen those loaves that almost split open which I doubt I will ever get but this one is pretty good, but will have to wait until tomorrow to see how it is inside, the previous loaf tasted great but found a fairly large pocket at the end so only a partial success.
6 months of baking and I’m still learning (by mistakes!)
Last edited by MrSmith; 16th October 2020 at 10:37.
Success! Just cut a few slices and it’s almost perfect, a few bigger holes but the distribution is really even across the loaf and nice crumb. Loaf is always going to be slightly dense due to the rye.
Crust is good too, thinner and easier to cut, not sure if that’s down to the gluten or steam.
The extra rest between folds seems to have helped the gluten development.
Will post pics later.
80% Rye (half wholemeal), 20% Spelt. Rye sourdough.
Ok down 3, back on it again!
Ok learning number 1, a starter is a very hardy little thing; think mine slipped to the back of the fridge & didn’t get fed for 6-8 weeks at least. It had a good 1cm of hooch on top (anyone tried this?), but drained & fed and back as strong as ever after 24hrs, phew.
I’ve always used a Dutch oven to cook my dough in, toying with a loaf tin purely from the shape being more convenient than a round & don’t own a oval basket.
Also, for those not cooking in a Dutch oven, are you just putting it onto a baking tray to cook?
Thanks
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Use a pizza stone and make sure it heats up thoroughly in the oven, I switch it on at least 45 minutes before I introduce the bread. Never used a Dutch oven or baking form.
I put the dough into a baneton for a second prove then place in an oven heated to 250. Heat a pizza stone and a pan at the bottom of the oven as it rises to temperature. Remove risen dough from the baneton, score deeply, and then place onto the pizza stone. Throw a cup of water into the heated pan to form steam which helps make a crust. Reduce temperature to 220 and then bake for about 30 mins. If the bottom is a bit “doughy” after 25-30 mins, turn the loaf over for the last 5 mins.
Results have been great!
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Attachment 18695
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Bugger, having bought an Ooni I gave my pizza stone to my father.
Time to buy another then!
You don't cut either do you Ralf, from memory?
What Dave said.
I have a repertoire of five or six different recipes, some of them are cut, others not. As a rule, the whiter the dough (=more wheat), the rather I cut it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Overnight play and further experimenting with a three hour quick one and and overnight. Need to build more tension with my overnight which I will try later.
My plan is to have a go to for a Quick loaf and a planned over Friday night for Saturday morning bake.
Pitch
Looking good mate!
I’d not done one for ages but started it Thursday following the ‘bake with Jack’ method again, timing the stretching between my meetings before overnight in the fridge.
Baked it yesterday & looking forward to some pate on it for lunch today.
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I have been 100% self-sufficient with my bread baking since September 2019, not bought a single loaf since.
This week's bake was 66% wheat and 33% rye, mix of wholemeal and bread flour):
That’s impressive going.
We still love a cheap dirty white sliced for bacon, just can’t be beaten. Since I started making sourdough we haven’t purchased any.
Need to get an oval basket, also fancy trying the sealable bread tin, which will leave a softer crust. My wife finds it too much after toasting.
Need a new lame too. Cheap one has rusted.
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